Are you a marxist? do you want a revolution?

[Jinef 2]

Please state your nationality (and residence) and whether you think it is possible that your country could become a socialist state.

The origins of the thread come from PitViper's suggestion on 25 April 2003,15:36 in the Tear of the sun thread that i, and others on this board are marxists.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He's a marxist like a significant number on this board.<span id='postcolor'>

You have to look at Warin's post afterwards to see this quote as the orginal has been rectified.

Anway, i decided to do be an intrepid annoying person and find out.  

[Jinef 2]

Okay i'll start, i'm British, and living in the UK.

However many predictions there were i don't think it is possible now that Britain will become socialist.

I voted for G, i explained my inclinations here

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....0;st=30

[edc 0]

U sure you voted for G, cause it ain't showin up.

[Jinef 2]

Uhh i forgot. Well it is 4am here.

[Tovarish 0]

G's my choice. I've always believed in some socialist ideals , but I mostly followed them on a personal level, like volunteering my time when I still had free time to do so at high school (and this was before you needed 40 hours of "volunteer" work to graduate). Call me a cynical but I just can't seem to be able to put my trust in any politician.\

*edit* Oh yes, nationality and all that

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I can't see it becoming purely socialist in the forseeable future, but on some things such as healthcare, i'd say there are some definite socialist influences at work.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

I was going to vote for G but then I decided to vote for D because that's the way I am.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Commie bastards

[John C Flett 0]

I'm British and I've been accused of being a socialist more than once. I guess its partly true though I'm not opposed to capitalism or big business in principle.

I do feel that the balance is wrong when we see the dreadful working conditions and massive cutbacks that exist in companies which give their executives massive rewards. If it makes me part of the loony left to think that if a company is doing well all the staff should benefit and if things are tough everybody should tighten their belt then I guess its true. Of course my judgement is coloured by working for a dreadful company which treats its lower employees with total contempt. I don't believe a revolution would be the answer but a better democracy. ie. A Labour party that actually had Labour politicians in it rather than cheap Tory clones. I gather you Americans have the same problem with two Republican parties.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (John C Flett @ 27 April 2003,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I gather you Americans have the same problem with two Republican parties.<span id='postcolor'>

The maxim goes something like this: a Republican will wreck the government, screw the average American, and cripple the country, all to get rich. A Democrat will do it just for fun.

[Tamme 0]

Im finnish and I voted for B. Democracy and capitalism are the only ways to make a poor country rich.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if a company is doing well all the staff should benefit and if things are tough everybody should tighten their belt<span id='postcolor'>

I totally agree on that though.

Those who voted for F please explain why you believe in communism. Its a great idea on paper, but it just does'nt work.

[Guest]

I'm certainly not a socialst. I do not at all share their core beliefs. I'm politically a liberal which is in many ways diametrically opposed to socialism. This might be difficult to grasp for our American friends in whose political system any party wanting social services for the population is branded as "socialist".  This is very wrong since it has really nothing to do with ideology. In Europe everybody advocates strong social services, regardless if they are left-wing or right wing.

There is not a 1:1 mapping of European/American definition, but the core is still there.

So what are the basic ideologies?

Right wing/Conservative

-----------------------

[*] Preservation of family values

[*] Low taxes

[*] Strong military & police

[*] Market economy

[*] Limited government size

Interest group: Upper middle class

Liberal

---------------------

[*] Freedom: Everything from freedom to have an abortion to freedom to use recreational drugs.

[*] Individuallity: Support individuals rather than segments of society. It shouldn't matter if you are black/white,rich/poor, straight/gay, Swedish/Norwegian..

[*] Equality and good conduct: All equal before the law and are not viewed in moral or religious terms.

[*] Small goverenment.

[*] Market economy

Interest group: Politically naive persons

Socialist

---------------------------

[*] Strong state

[*] High taxes

[*] Equality, including economic to maximum possible extent

[*] Workers contol the means of productions

[*] Plan economy

Target group: worker's class and lower middle class

As I said, the American definitions are a bit twisted from the origins, but there are still identifiable traces of ideological beliefs.

Real political parties work seldom just after one ideology but are more a mix of them all.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 27 April 2003,12:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Liberal

---------------------

[*] Freedom: Everything from freedom to have an abortion to freedom to use recreational drugs.<span id='postcolor'>

That is a liberal defintion of a liberal.

[-TU--33ker 0]

I'm living in Germany and i voted for G.

although i'm not a marxist or comunist, i think that we need a revolution in the people's minds over here! Our social system isn't doing very well because it's still hasn't changed very much from the 50ies! the politicians just patch it up but it still doesn't help! and the people don't realize how fragile the social system is and still think the state can care for them in case of unemployment or when they're old. The people here must become more independent and care for themselves instead of relying on the state which doesn't have enough money to manage it!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([TU]$33ker @ 27 April 2003,12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm living in Germany and i voted for G.

although i'm not a marxist or comunist, i think that we need a revolution in the people's minds over here! Our social system isn't doing very well because it's still hasn't changed very much from the 50ies! the politicians just patch it up but it still doesn't help! and the people don't realize how fragile the social system is and still think the state can care for them in case of unemployment or when they're old. The people here must become more independent and care for themselves instead of relying on the state which doesn't have enough money to manage it!<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds more like B than G to me.

[-TU--33ker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 27 April 2003,11:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([TU]$33ker @ 27 April 2003,12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm living in Germany and i voted for G.

although i'm not a marxist or comunist, i think that we need a revolution in the people's minds over here! Our social system isn't doing very well because it's still hasn't changed very much from the 50ies! the politicians just patch it up but it still doesn't help! and the people don't realize how fragile the social system is and still think the state can care for them in case of unemployment or when they're old. The people here must become more independent and care for themselves instead of relying on the state which doesn't have enough money to manage it!<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds more like B than G to me.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think being left or right would help to solve the problem i described. I think what we need here in germany is a new party. Something like a "Progress Party".

A mix of the best politicians from all parties.

So this would be G, don't you think so?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([TU]$33ker @ 27 April 2003,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 27 April 2003,11:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([TU]$33ker @ 27 April 2003,12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm living in Germany and i voted for G.

although i'm not a marxist or comunist, i think that we need a revolution in the people's minds over here! Our social system isn't doing very well because it's still hasn't changed very much from the 50ies! the politicians just patch it up but it still doesn't help! and the people don't realize how fragile the social system is and still think the state can care for them in case of unemployment or when they're old. The people here must become more independent and care for themselves instead of relying on the state which doesn't have enough money to manage it!<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds more like B than G to me.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think being left or right would help to solve the problem i described. I think what we need here in germany is a new party. Something like a "Progress Party".

A mix of the best politicians from all parties.

So this would be G, don't you think so? <span id='postcolor'>

Well you complain that people have to be independent and the government cannot bail them and companies out whenever the going gets tough.

So it doesn't sound socialist to me and it sounds like you do have a definite opinion on the subject.

[-TU--33ker 0]

maybe i misunderstood the word stance.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't have a political stance because it's FUBAR<span id='postcolor'>

i thought it means whether you're left or right.

[Blaegis 0]

I'm a Russian national living in Finland at the moment. My vote went to alternative G. I wouldn't vote for anything marxist/maoist/socialist or revolutionary, having experienced the disasterous effects of those first hand. The liberal ideology would be closest to my way of thinking, but ideology and its political application are two completely different things. In my experience any ideology, no matter how noble, will eventually be perverted in its political manifistation.

[Renagade 0]

I vote for nothing.

[Jinef 2]

Your stance is just your position, basically saying i'm not left right, i'm in between, i don't vote because it's all screwed up and my vote won't help things.

[Jinef 2]

Who voted for Fascist?

Come on own up!

[Milkman 1]

You can vote for Fascist? Damn where??

I live in the USA, I wish things were more equal, but our expierments with socialism (Social Security, Industry Regulation) have failed miserably. I highly doubt that Socialism will ever be adopted in the US, although we have tried to make some attempts.... Im happy with our capitalism/democracy.

[Tamme 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In my experience any ideology, no matter how noble, will eventually be perverted in its political manifistation. <span id='postcolor'>

Unfortunately thats true many ideologies sound good, but in the end its about money and power.

Free healthcare and free schools are the most important things. Here in Finnland the politicians are always talking about how the healthcare should be improved, but every time when they need to save money they take it from healthcare. Why don't they take it from culture or sports?! What good is a hockey match when you're gonna die waiting for a heart bypass? The lines are so long in the public hospitals that you gotta go to a private hospital if you want something done, but it costs a fortune.

Then comes the police. A big army doesn't make people feel safe, it only protects you from outside threats. In here the police is under funded. Wellfare comes from inside. When people are happy and feeling safe the whole nation works better.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 27 April 2003,11:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm politically a liberal which is in many ways diametrically opposed to socialism.Liberal

---------------------

It shouldn't matter if you are black/white,rich/poor, straight/gay, Swedish/Norwegian..<span id='postcolor'>

with that point, you are not a liberal.

i consider myself somewaht of a moderate, or mixed.

[pong2cs 0]

Danish Dane from Denmark.

G, because I honestly think society's going to hell, at one point we have the freedom of speech, and at another one we have censoring. I have too many reasons to even bother thinking of one of them.

Hey, whaddaya know, my first post in OT, I must be going AWOL...