The Dogs of War

[FSPilot 0]

To be fair, we only have air supremacy because we've captured most of Baghdad.

Look out! Rioting! They hate us and want to fight for Saddam against the infidels with their

... pink flowers!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 09 2003,00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i highly doubt if Hussein opted fro large amount of bodyguards. He would be smarter than that. instead of having huge group of ppl moving along with him, which would revela his move, he would have opted for 50-100 bodyguards, most of them spread around.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not saying that there are 5,000 people with him, but that the organization responsible for his protection - the Iraqi equivalent of the US Secret Service has that many employees. They would be very interested in what happened to their boss.

Nah, these Saddam stories are just like the WMD stories. Unconfirmed rumor quality information at best.

It's in the US interest (psychops) to make the Iraqis think that Saddam is dead. They have been fairly successful at it too. People were widly speculating Saddams possible death after the first day - until he appeared on TV and talked about recent events. You don't kill bastards like him that easy.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 09 2003,00:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To be fair, we only have air supremacy because we've captured most of Baghdad.<span id='postcolor'>

About 1/4 of Baghdad is under US control, if you include the suburbs.

Edit: According to CentCom, so it's probably significantly less. Remember Umm Qasr and Basra.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 08 2003,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To be fair, we only have air supremacy because we've captured most of Baghdad.

Look out!  Rioting!  They hate us and want to fight for Saddam against the infidels with their

... pink flowers!  <span id='postcolor'>

Where did you get that picture from? She must be auxilary or support, as Britain does not field women in a front line capacity.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 08 2003,23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They must be preparing to do some major dammage to people or propery and don't want reporters around.<span id='postcolor'>

[scooby-Doo villain] And we'd have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids! [/scooby-Doo villain]

Semper Fi

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">About 1/4 of Baghdad is under US control, if you include the suburbs.

Edit: According to CentCom, so it's probably significantly less. Remember Umm Qasr and Basra.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, when a SAM or AAA fires they're going to get a knock on the door by a MBT, so I think they're a little reluctant to light up.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where did you get that picture from? She must be auxilary or support, as Britain does not field women in a front line capacity.<span id='postcolor'>

Yahoo! has a slideshow thats growing by the minute. It's up to 330 now and was at 280-something when I started.

Click on "War with Iraq Slideshow" on the left.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,00:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 09 2003,00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i highly doubt if Hussein opted fro large amount of bodyguards. He would be smarter than that. instead of having huge group of ppl moving along with him, which would revela his move, he would have opted for 50-100 bodyguards, most of them spread around.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not saying that there are 5,000 people with him, but that the organization responsible for his protection - the Iraqi equivalent of the US Secret Service has that many employees. They would be very interested in what happened to their boss.

Nah, these Saddam stories are just like the WMD stories. Unconfirmed rumor quality information at best.

It's in the US interest (psychops) to make the Iraqis think that Saddam is dead. They have been fairly successful at it too. People were widly speculating Saddams possible death after the first day - until he appeared on TV and talked about recent events. You don't kill bastards like him that easy.<span id='postcolor'>

I find your analysis deeply flawed.

The site can't be too tightly under Iraqi control considering Special Forces and the CIA are poking around. I think Iraqi "control" at this point is a very subjective thing.

And why exactly would the Iraqi "Secret Service" show up at that site? If Saddam wasn't there, they wouldn't show up. If he was there, he's a goner and there would be no need to show up. Four 2000lbs bombs doesn't leave much chance of survival.

Assuming he was there and they wanted to look for their boss. With the CIA and Special Forces already there, and quite cabable of calling down more ordinace should any significant resistance arrive, it would be little more than a suicide mission. If he was there, the "Secret Service" probably deduced (rightly) that there is no way to help him now. It's time to worry about survival.

Any any case that you can think of, the likely hood of his bodyguards showing up at that site is nil.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 09 2003,00:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 08 2003,23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They must be preparing to do some major dammage to people or propery and don't want reporters around.<span id='postcolor'>

[scooby-Doo villain] And we'd have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids! [/scooby-Doo villain]

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

You know, I would find it just as funny as you do, but then I think back of that Nigerian uranium scam and I go all

[FSPilot 0]

I'm loving these pictures.

edit - favorite so far

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 09 2003,00:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The site can't be too tightly under Iraqi control considering Special Forces and the CIA are poking around. I think Iraqi "control" at this point is a very subjective thing.<span id='postcolor'>

I saw the video from this evening. There were no special forces there. Just some medics, a shitload of journaliststs, some crying civilians and one or two Iraqi soldiers.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And why exactly would the Iraqi "Secret Service" show up at that site? If Saddam wasn't there, they wouldn't show up. If he was there, he's a goner and there would be no need to show up. Four 2000lbs bombs doesn't leave much chance of survival. <span id='postcolor'>

Of course there would be, they would have to make sure that he did not leave the building or that he was there in the first place. If somebody blew up the White House, do you think that the Secret Service would be running around the place like crazy or would they say "Screw that, the old man's dead. Let's go home". Please, don't pull an FSPilot on me.

[Jinef 2]

Awww he likes the pretty pictures, isn't that sweet. Let's not tell him that they are drawings of bad things that kill people, he might get upset.

As for that picture it's probably down south near those big ports (My Iraqi geography is bad, and i don't watch the news), maybe she's logistics corps or something?

[FSPilot 0]

I think it goes without saying that, if the Iraqi SS showed up, Saddam was in danger. They wouldn't go there if it was just a resteraunt.

And of course the US secret service would go to the white house if it were blown up. But an iraqi resteraunt isn't exactly the Iraqi white house now is it?

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 08 2003,23:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I finally saw a sideshot closeup of that 15th floor of the Palestine Hotel.  Wonderfull, it looks like the balcony where the shell hit beside had a camera mounted on the corner.  Wonderful job    

Anyone confirm this?<span id='postcolor'>

There is a picture in the Yahoo slideshow. I see the corner you are talking about and I think there was a camera there...

But there are also TWO cameras above it in the next balconey.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ April 09 2003,00:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Awww he likes the pretty pictures, isn't that sweet. Let's not tell him that they are drawings of bad things that kill people, he might get upset.

As for that picture it's probably down south near those big ports (My Iraqi geography is bad, and i don't watch the news), maybe she's logistics corps or something?<span id='postcolor'>

Women with guns! Next they'll be driving cars!

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 09 2003,06:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Awww he likes the pretty pictures, isn't that sweet. Let's not tell him that they are drawings of bad things that kill people, he might get upset.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, pink flowers are really dangerous.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Women with guns! Next they'll be driving cars!<span id='postcolor'>

And voting! Sheesh!

[Die Alive 0]

A man, suspected of being a Fedayeen member, is beaten by a group residents on the streets of Basra, Iraq Tuesday April 8, 2003. (AP Photo/Jon Mills, Pool)

sucks to be that guy.

-=Die Alive=-

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 09 2003,00:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 09 2003,06:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Awww he likes the pretty pictures, isn't that sweet. Let's not tell him that they are drawings of bad things that kill people, he might get upset.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, pink flowers are really dangerous.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Women with guns! Next they'll be driving cars!<span id='postcolor'>

And voting!  Sheesh!  <span id='postcolor'>

Hey, quote Jinef on the flowers, not me!

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,01<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course there would be, they would have to make sure that he did not leave the building or that he was there in the first place. If somebody blew up the White House, do you think that the Secret Service would be running around the place like crazy or would they say "Screw that, the old man's dead. Let's go home". Please, don't pull an FSPilot on me.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I saw that video too. Obviously that was before the Special Forces were inserted. This happened over a day ago remember.

And do you think the Secret Service would not know where the President is at any given moment? So don't give me they would have to show up to "make sure he didn't leave." If he left they of all people know it...so again...there is no reason at all to show up at the site.

And your allegory is a good example but doesn't quit match. Unless of course you are assuming that the US is under invasion and Washington at that moment was being invaded, and the enemy not only had forces on the ground near the White House, but air superiority and the ability to blow to hell anyone that poked their head up. Then yes. The Secret Service wouldn't be making a public display for them to target (and let us not forget that if the Secret Service was running around "looking" for him, that in itself calls into question their effectivness).

They only FSPiloting I see taking place is your insistance that these bodyguards would show up. When in the circumstances there is absolutely no reason to show up, whether he was there or not.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 09 2003,01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course there would be, they would have to make sure that he did not leave the building or that he was there in the first place. If somebody blew up the White House, do you think that the Secret Service would be running around the place like crazy or would they say "Screw that, the old man's dead. Let's go home". Please, don't pull an FSPilot on me.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I saw that video too. Obviously that was before the Special Forces were inserted. This happened over a day ago remember.<span id='postcolor'>

This was a live report from Ĺsne Seirestad that was aired here about 18:30 CET (five hours ago). And I'm telling you there were no special forces around. The only military were a couple of lazy looking Iraqi soldiers.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And do you think the Secret Service would not know where the President is at any given moment? So don't give me they would have to show up to "make sure he didn't leave." If he left they of all people know it...so again...there is no reason at all to show up at the site.

<span id='postcolor'>

No not in wartime Iraq with communications down. Can't you see the absurdity of your statements? You say that a head of state is killed and that nobody, not police, not bodyguards nobody bothers to show up, except for some medics and a few Iraqi regular soldiers?  

If you are really trying to say this, then there is no point in furthering this discussion.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And do you think the Secret Service would not know where the President is at any given moment? So don't give me they would have to show up to "make sure he didn't leave." If he left they of all people know it...so again...there is no reason at all to show up at the site.

<span id='postcolor'>

No not in wartime Iraq with communications down. Can't you see the absurdity of your statements? You say that a head of state is killed and that nobody, not police, not bodyguards nobody bothers to show up, except for some medics and a few Iraqi regular soldiers?  

If you are really trying to say this, then there is no point in furthering this discussion.<span id='postcolor'>

Then there is no reason for discussion clearly.

Keep that mind shut. Never know...unwanted thoughts might creep in there. It's scary.

[Guest]

Sure, FSPilot Jr. , sure. And now I'm going to have a more gratifying conversation with my wall

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No not in wartime Iraq with communications down. Can't you see the absurdity of your statements? You say that a head of state is killed and that nobody, not police, not bodyguards nobody bothers to show up, except for some medics and a few Iraqi regular soldiers?  

If you are really trying to say this, then there is no point in furthering this discussion.<span id='postcolor'>

Well hell...just can't leave it alone...

Are you telling me these so called Iraqi Secret Service don't have a way to keep in constant contact with their charge? And my statements are absurd??

And the Head Of State is killed. The HoS of an invaded country with an army knockin' on your door. The HoS is dead the government is DEAD. It's that plain in simple. It would be clear that the war is lost. Would you be pokin' around looking for your HoS with a big target on your back, or planning to save your own hide and make a place for yourself in the coming government?

And of course there is the chance that those medics, and those "lazy" soldiers are in contact with the ISS, or are members of said ISS. Would you go out proclaiming yourself a loyalist? Or would you go out with the least threatening appearance possible. Presumably, this ISS isn't full of a bunch of morons.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 09 2003,01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure, FSPilot Jr. , sure. And now I'm going to have a more gratifying conversation with my wall <span id='postcolor'>

LOL!

Yeah...and you are the paragon of flexability!

LOL!

I've shown more flexability and acceptance of ideas in this thread alone then I've seen in all your discussions.

Whatever you say there denoir  

[Cloney 0]

You guys really don't like FSPilot huh?

What exactly is "pulling an FSPilot"?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 09 2003,01:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you telling me these so called Iraqi Secret Service don't have a way to keep in constant contact with their charge? And my statements are absurd??<span id='postcolor'>

If somebody drops 4 JDAMSs then I doubt that they can keep in touch.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And the Head Of State is killed. The HoS of an invaded country with an army knockin' on your door. The HoS is dead the government is DEAD. It's that plain in simple. <span id='postcolor'>

You mean like WW2? Yes we all remember that the war was over as soon as Hitler was dead. Yeah right.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And of course there is the chance that those medics, and those "lazy" soldiers are in contact with the ISS, or are members of said ISS. Would you go out proclaiming yourself a loyalist? Or would you go out with the least threatening appearance possible. Presumably, this ISS isn't full of a bunch of morons.<span id='postcolor'>

They sure would not be driving busloads of reporters to the place (yes they took them there) if there was a possibility that Saddam's curshed head would emerge from the rubble.