Propaganda doesn`t change at all

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 19 2003,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have no problem with US citizens as repeatedly said before, but I`d shoot the current US goverment up to the moon if I could. The world would be way safer then.

The problem with most of the US representants here in the forums is that they take any criticism pointed to the US government personally. And they devour the US propaganda blindly. How can it be that the point of view of the USA and a very few US followers (from which many are bought with dollars...  ) can be the only right one? That alone would give me a lot to think if I was US american. How can almost the whole world be wrong and only we right?<span id='postcolor'>

well about some of these representatives, do you know how old they are?

it could very well be they are like 12 years old and are quite immature.

as far as the world being wrong and the US being right, the last time i checked the US was not going it alone. So some of the world agrees with the US Government, (but i guess they was just forced to as no doubt everyone is gonna say)

The point i am making is that every thread that bashes the US is bashing the US as a whole. there are many of us like myself that absolutely abhore what this government is doing.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

You're right, my mistake, I didn't read your post properly. I apologize.

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">USA is a military nation where nothing is more honorable than to fight for your country...

I hope that attitude will change but it will take along time.<span id='postcolor'>

You are SOOOO wrong my friend, we are NOT a military nation.<span id='postcolor'>

Okay, if you want to think that I will let you.

But personally I think you can't see the forest for the trees.<span id='postcolor'>

You do not know me so you cant have an opinion of me.

Don't believe everything you read or hear about americans.

[Winters 1]

I think i need to stay out of the off topic area. it would be better for my stress level.

[llauma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.<span id='postcolor'>

He never got elected in the first place. He used everything that was wrong in our system to manipulate the vote his way and he won't be able to do it again.

In 2004 we all sing "Farewell to the Thief"

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as far as the world being wrong and the US being right, the last time i checked the US was not going it alone. So some of the world agrees with the US Government, (but i guess they was just forced to as no doubt everyone is gonna say)<span id='postcolor'>

Most of them were not forced. They were bought. Look at those nations. Most of them are from eastern europe (poor countries) or africa (poor!! ) or south america (also poor).

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.<span id='postcolor'>

He never got elected in the first place. He used everything that was wrong in our system to manipulate the vote his way and he won't be able to do it again.

In 2004 we all sing "Farewell to the Thief"<span id='postcolor'>

And that will be a good thing, Winters  

I just hope that Paul Wolfowitz get`s kicked out of the White House and from any position that gives him might. The same should happen to all of his "hawks".

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 19 2003,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as far as the world being wrong and the US being right, the last time i checked the US was not going it alone. So some of the world agrees with the US Government, (but i guess they was just forced to as no doubt everyone is gonna say)<span id='postcolor'>

Most of them were not forced. They were bought. Look at those nations. Most of them are from eastern europe (poor countries) or africa (poor!! ) or south america (also poor).<span id='postcolor'>

then what about the UK, Australia and Spain?

[llauma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.<span id='postcolor'>

He never got elected in the first place. He used everything that was wrong in our system to manipulate the vote his way and he won't be able to do it again.

In 2004 we all sing "Farewell to the Thief"<span id='postcolor'>

I really do hope so but I have my doubts.

USA will crush Iraq and as a military nation the president will get a massive support.

But I wish I am wrong...

[Milkman 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have no problem with US citizens as repeatedly said before, but I`d shoot the current US goverment up to the moon if I could. The world would be way safer then.<span id='postcolor'>

You want to kill our president? Well thats just great, no Anti-US stuff here....

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The problem with most of the US representants here in the forums is that they take any criticism pointed to the US government personally<span id='postcolor'>

We have pride, of course we take it personally!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And they devour the US propaganda blindly. How can it be that the point of view of the USA and a very few US followers (from which many are bought with dollars...  ) can be the only right one? That alone would give me a lot to think if I was US american. How can almost the whole world be wrong and only we right?

<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you are not as up to date with the USA as you think. Not everyone supports President Bush. Maybe the people who post in favor of USA involvement are CONSERVATIVES, who usually support Mr. Bush.  

There are people called LIBERALS who are seem to dislike Bush and his foreign policy.

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.<span id='postcolor'>

He never got elected in the first place. He used everything that was wrong in our system to manipulate the vote his way and he won't be able to do it again.

In 2004 we all sing "Farewell to the Thief"<span id='postcolor'>

I really do hope so but I have my doubts.

USA will crush Iraq and as a military nation the president will get a massive support.

But I wish I am wrong...<span id='postcolor'>

We are NOT a military nation, Have you even been to the United States?

[llauma 0]

Yes I have

[Winters 1]

Then you should know we are not a Military Nation, we don't parade tanks down the streets of our cities and "dying for your country is the greatest honor" is not taught in our schools.

[FallenPaladin 0]

I said most of them

UK has asskissing Tony as leader and almost the same problem you over there in the USA has. A political leader which gives a shit about his citizen`s thoughts.

It`s the same with Australia.

And Spain is also quite poor. From the western european countries it had a rough time after the Euro was introduced.

The US government isolated itself from the rest of the world in the last months under Bush, Wolfowitz and the "hawks". Even with the "coalition of willing" the US government is isolated.

But all this is kinda offtopic. With this topic I just wanted to point out the US propaganda and that it uses the same methods like the germans used in WW2 and like many other countries did before.

[Milkman 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I really do hope so but I have my doubts.

USA will crush Iraq and as a military nation the president will get a massive support.

But I wish I am wrong... <span id='postcolor'>

Don't worry, you are wrong, but wrong on a differnet thing than you think you are wrong on.

WE ARE NOT A FUCKING MILITARY NATION FOR CHRIST SAKE!

Where are you from Llauma? Cuz if you believe the US is feeding propaganda into american heads, maybe you should look at yourself and your remarks. What makes you think that your government is not feeding those ANTI-US thoughts to you?

[Milkman 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then you should know we are not a Military Nation, we don't parade tanks down the streets of our cities and "dying for your country is the greatest honor" is not taught in our schools.<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly!

[hellfish6 7]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 19 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would that be US Citizens that are bothering other countries or would that be the Government and the Military?  

There is a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

We will see next year if Bush get re-elected or not.

If he does, then people can say that they are Anti US goverment, military and citizens.<span id='postcolor'>

He never got elected in the first place. He used everything that was wrong in our system to manipulate the vote his way and he won't be able to do it again.

In 2004 we all sing "Farewell to the Thief"<span id='postcolor'>

As an American, I hope to God you're right.

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sgt. Milkman @ Mar. 19 2003,18:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have no problem with US citizens as repeatedly said before, but I`d shoot the current US goverment up to the moon if I could. The world would be way safer then.<span id='postcolor'>

You want to kill our president? Well thats just great, no Anti-US stuff here....<span id='postcolor'>

Who talked of killing???

He could rule the moon if he wanted to

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 19 2003,18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I said most of them

UK has asskissing Tony as leader and almost the same problem you over there in the USA has. A political leader which gives a shit about his citizen`s thoughts.

It`s the same with Australia.

And Spain is also quite poor. From the western european countries it had a rough time after the Euro was introduced.

The US government isolated itself from the rest of the world in the last months under Bush, Wolfowitz and the "hawks". Even with the "coalition of willing" the US government is isolated.

But all this is kinda offtopic. With this topic I just wanted to point out the US propaganda and that it uses the same methods like the germans used in WW2 and like many other countries did before.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok good point,

I just hate it when people bunch me in with the jerks in Washington. Everytime i see his stupid "i am better than you, you don't know squat" smirk i want to smack it off.

How much longer until 2004?

[Milkman 1]

Hmmm too bad my 200th post had to be in an Anti-US forum defending my nation's honor.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

America is by no means a military nation; anyone who says so merely demonstrates their own ignorance. American youths are often actively discouraged from joining the military, by family and peers. I know the first words I heard when I first told a few of my friends that i was considering joining up was, "What a waste..." Same thing with my parents. And I know for a fact that this is the attitude of the majority in America. The life of an American soldier is one of embarassingly low pay, poor conditions for raising a family, the possibility of being sent to a foreign country to get your ass shot off, only to return to protestors calling you baby killers. America has never been an overly militaristic nation (unlike some nations I could mention, Fallen), and history bears this out. We only raise large armies when the need arises, and even when we maintain a standing professional army, it is relatively small, considering the size of America. Also, we don't teach our kids to goose-step. So, I really hate to be rude (because so much rudeness has been directed at me and mine recently solely because of my status as an American citizen), but get your fucking facts straight before you start mouthing off. You obviously don't understand Americans, and all statements I have seen you make about us have been 100% WRONG. You speak as if we are a fascist state in the making, when you of all people should know the real earmarks of a fascist state. Simply because some Americans place a high value on the success of their childred, and some Germans did the same circa 1933, does not make America fascist. One of Mussolini's main accomplishments was to get the Italian train system to run on time- does that make striving for an efficient transit system a fascist goal? Since you're probably going to get this wrong, I'll answer it for you: NO! It is the same thing here- valuing success and honoring those who are willing to put up with all the bullshit that comes with American military service are not fascist trademarks.

[Winters 1]

Back on Topic,

I am afraid that propaganda will always be used in any conflict. It's an attempt to boost the morale of your troops win acceptance at the homefront and to demoralize the enemy.

In '91 when i was in the gulf we had soldiers surrenduring to us all the time that carried leaflets the airforce dropped that showed pictures of iraqis sitting around a HUGE plate of fruit and LARGE pitchers of water while some friendly G.I.'s stood by. Everyone was smiling in the picture, we got a big laugh at that.

[Milkman 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Winters @ Mar. 19 2003,11:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back on Topic,

I am afraid that propaganda will always be used in any conflict. It's an attempt to boost the morale of your troops win acceptance at the homefront and to demoralize the enemy.

In '91 when i was in the gulf we had soldiers surrenduring to us all the time that carried leaflets the airforce dropped that showed pictures of iraqis sitting around a HUGE plate of fruit and LARGE pitchers of water while some friendly G.I.'s stood by. Everyone was smiling in the picture, we got a big laugh at that.<span id='postcolor'>

hehe, they even tried to surrender to unmanned drones once they got those leiflets.

[hellfish6 7]

But you guys have to admit, there is a kind of romantic view the US takes toward it's soldiers. Whenever I wore my uniform out in public, I'd get free food & drinks, talk to lots of hot women, I could get a train ticket for free, etc. Americans do love their soldiers.

That said, you guys need to realize that less than 1% of the entire US population is in the military (IIRC). Less than 5% has EVER served. If you're an American, you'd probably know someone who killed someone else while driving drunk before you know someone in the military. Though we may admire our troops, very few ever actually want to become one. Even fewer actually do become one. In my class at Army basic training, we had a 40% drop out/failure rate. And that's just from basic infantry training. And that's for an all volunteer army? And from a militant country?

Are we a militant nation? No, I don't think so. I think we're aware that we're the biggest badasses on the block and we take pride in that. But you have to remember - America puts its military bases where nobody wants to be. Find the crappiest land in America where almost nobody lives and you will also find a military base. Americans may love their troops, but only from a distance and only when they are dressed up all pretty.