30mm HE hit damage value mistake?

[pcc 14]

The hit value is 30, which is the same as a 12.7x99.  Isn't 30mm more powerful than .50 cal in real life?  Compared this to 20mm HE which does 60 hit damage.  

 

I could just adjust values in the config, but I'd like to know if there's a reason for its value that I missed.  Also, I'm not really sure how high it should be because, 40mm GPR does 70 hit, but 30mm MP is 90.

Just look at the difference

[Von Quest 1163]

Is this just in vanilla?

Curious. I wouldn't be surprised. I find config errors all the time, as they add and upgrade things. It's like they don't do quality control, and have someone check and keep track of settings/configs, etc. They are often wonky and out of proportion. I just finished checking volume space in backpacks and containers last week. Same thing. Grrr.

 

Keep in mind though, there are other factors for the damage and effect calculations. There is penetration, explosion (splash), drag, deflection, etc.

 

The shear volume of content and coding in the game often lends itself to things getting missed or disproportionate to other similar entries of the same type of group. It can be a tad frustrating sometimes.

[drebin052 323]

3 hours ago, Von Quest said:

Is this just in vanilla?

 

Yes, although only the Mi-48 Kajman uses the default 30mm shell. The BTR-K Kamysh, AFV-4 Gorgon, FV-720 Mora and T-140K Angara use a similar 30mm shell but it hits harder. As for why it's 30 base damage, I think it's intended by design on BI's end to further distinguish the traits between the gunships on BLUFOR and OPFOR which has always been the trend since OFP:

 

OFP: Ka-50/Mi-24 30mm HE had larger blast radius but less damage vs. the AH-64's 30mm HE which had a smaller blast radius but twice the damage.

Arma 1: KA-50's 2A42 HE hit harder than the AH-1Z's M197 and had a splash radius (the only time where the OPFOR gunship's cannon is vastly superior to its BLUFOR counterpart).

Arma 2: Ka-52/Mi-24 2A42 HE hit for less than the AH-64D's/Apache AH1's M230 HE but both had the same splash radius.

 

This hasn't changed with Arma 3: the Mi-48's 30mm HE has almost twice the blast radius which makes it better against infantry even though it's weaker base damage-wise. The AH-99's 20mm HE pierces better but has less splash, making it more effective against light vehicles and other helicopters.

[reyhard 2082]

21 hours ago, pcc said:

Compared this to 20mm HE which does 60 hit damage

It's actually not HE

    class B_20mm: BulletBase

Notice the class name

I haven't set that config but I guess that those values are there to simulate AP/HE mix which are often loaded on air assets or AA guns. It could be also multi purpose round like this one https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/medium-caliber-ammunition/20mm-m940-mpt-sd/
 

40mm GPR & 30mm MP are, as name suggest, multi purpose rounds which are designed to both deal good damage against vehicles and uncovered infantry (see above).

 

On the other hand, 30mm HE is purely High Explosive round which deals less kinetic energy (hit) and more explosive one (indirectHit). Due to indirectHit, this round is much more powerful against soft targets compared to regular 12.7

[pcc 14]

That's the confusing part too because 60Rnd_20mm_HE_shells magazine uses B_20mm and there's a separate 20mm AP round too.

 

But still, shouldn't the 30mm HE do more direct hit damage than 12.7 regardless of additional explosive damage?

Also, what about 40mm GPR's lower hit damage than 30mm MP?

[reyhard 2082]

6 minutes ago, pcc said:

 

But still, shouldn't the 30mm HE do more direct hit damage than 12.7 regardless of additional explosive damage?

If it explodes on impact - probably not since shell will just explode instead of trying to penetrate armor & transferring KE to target

 

40mm GPR has higher explosive damage compared to 30mm MP

 

30mm MP
        hit = 90;
        indirectHit = 4;
        indirectHitRange = 2;

 

40mm GPR
        hit = 70;
        indirectHit = 8;
        indirectHitRange = 4;

[pcc 14]

But even the 20mm HE grenades has more hit damage  than 12.7 too.  So I think 30mm HE probably should at least have a hit higher than 40 (the hit value of 20mm grenades).

 

Yes, explosive damage of 40mm GPR should be higher than 30mm MP,  but why its hit value is lower?

 

Another problem is that AI will not fire if the ammo's hit value is too low and armor value of target is too high even though the ammo can still damage parts of target like tires.  Even after setting damageResistance to 0 AI won't shoot.

[reyhard 2082]

11 hours ago, pcc said:

 

Yes, explosive damage of 40mm GPR should be higher than 30mm MP,  but why its hit value is lower?

Because it's different kind of round which have stronger explosive charge & less kinetic energy

 

12 hours ago, pcc said:

20mm HE grenades

They are not used anywhere in game and thus they were never subject of balancing. I'm also not sure what they should represent. Please also keep in mind that bigger doesn't always mean "better"

I.e. what do you think would have better penetration:

30×165 mm 3UBR8 round

or

25×137 mm M919 ?

 

[pcc 14]

20mm HE grenades are used in static turrets.  40mm HE grenade are used more and it has 80 hit damage, so the explosion affecting initial hit doesn't apply.  It also wouldn't make sense because explosion happens after the initial hit damage. 

Is it not true that bigger rounds should hit harder initially than smaller rounds especially when it more than twice the size?

 

If I had to guess, auto cannon fired HE rounds hits hard than HE grenades rounds of similar mm IRL.

 

30×165 mm should have the higher initial hit value.  Penetration damage is another value, that HE rounds don't have.

Also, the main problem is same initial hit value for both 30mm with 12.7, and nothing seems to justify that yet.

30mm vs 12.7, but somehow they have same initial hit damage.