Has anyone tried not fighting in ofp?

[David Shipley 0]

You know, I've been playing OFP for a few years now. I still love the game... but lately, though, I've grown -- well -- tired of being the guy who has to kill everybody. I'm tired of being the guy who carries the LAW to destroy any tanks that come by. I'm tired of taking all the risk, and basically being Rambo.

And also being the 'Rambo' who dies the most.

Lately, I've shifted to letting my men do everything - I'm just a squad leader now. I tell them where to go, which direction to look at and when to shoot. I micromanage everything, all in an effort to make my team an effective fighting force.

As I went forward, I learned about teams, covering fire and more.

The result? My squad kills more bad guys than I ever did, and suffer less casualties due to good leadership.

And the best part? I almost never die in missions now. I only fight when I have to. Most of the time, I just point out bad guys with my binaculars, and let my men deal with them.

Well anyway, I guess I'm just trying to ask, "Has anybody else tried this?" Considering Operation Flashpoint is supposed to be realistic, I guess this is the most realistic way to play - as squad leader, that is.

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

I command them and fight with them, basicly i get killed when im giving a big order

[bn880 5]

Yes I have been doing this before, but I still got about 40% of the kills between the orders....

[Scorpio 0]

I never have a group. I'm either on my own, or have a leader. I hate ordering men around...it get's me killed.

I like to fight on my own though, no matter how big the enemy number is, i usually find a way round it.

[walker 0]

Hi All

I Command big groups (companies or greater) all the time now hardly ever fight myself just atracts attention to my officer hat.

If I kill its an incedental a stray running through the lines and I am worried he might take a potshot at me so I get rid of him.

I spend too much time getting artilery laid or the ordering flank platoon so they are doing bounding overwatch or setting up a large invasion

I have played and won Sainte Marie Hill 5 times when I have never fired a shot and that is with the victory time reduced to under an hour. On other occasions I have had to lead the final charge up the hill or taken out a tough MG position with a rocket or hand grenade.

But the plain fact is if you are an officer of captain rank or above and you fire you let them know where you are and your rank makes you target numero Uno

Kind Regards walker

[ralphwiggum 6]

i tend to differ from situations to situations.

sometimes if i have a good idea of assault i'll be leading, i prefer to be leader and micromanage. like where they should be, whether they fire or not and etc.

but then again, i sometimes leave it upto others to lead. i'll just follow the orders and do it. this situation happens when i'm confident of the player leading the squad knows the stuff.

[toadeater 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (David Shipley @ Jan. 21 2003,19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know, I've been playing OFP for a few years now. I still love the game... but lately, though, I've grown -- well -- tired of being the guy who has to kill everybody. I'm tired of being the guy who carries the LAW to destroy any tanks that come by. I'm tired of taking all the risk, and basically being Rambo.

And also being the 'Rambo' who dies the most.

Lately, I've shifted to letting my men do everything - I'm just a squad leader now. I tell them where to go, which direction to look at and when to shoot. I micromanage everything, all in an effort to make my team an effective fighting force.

As I went forward, I learned about teams, covering fire and more.

The result? My squad kills more bad guys than I ever did, and suffer less casualties due to good leadership.

And the best part? I almost never die in missions now. I only fight when I have to. Most of the time, I just point out bad guys with my binaculars, and let my men deal with them.

Well anyway, I guess I'm just trying to ask, "Has anybody else tried this?" Considering Operation Flashpoint is supposed to be realistic, I guess this is the most realistic way to play - as squad leader, that is.<span id='postcolor'>

I try to play the game that way also. Your orders can make all the difference sometimes, the difference between most of your squad dead, or a total rout of the enemy. I try to use each soldier for what they were intended, like keeping the machine gunners, snipers and grenadiers back, while having the regular troops advance. Also try to save the medic for healing and driving vehicles.

The only thing that's really lacking in all this is that there isn't a command to have your squad ADVANCE IN FORMATION. That is, keep the backup in the back, the soldiers leading, etc. Once you tell them to advance, they start going off in all directions and wind up doing something stupid like walking into the middle of the enemy base. This is the one thing that Ghost Recon really beats OFP at, the troops in that are much more careful and don't go running off on their own if you try to have a coordinated advance. By that I mean not just in the wedge formation, but each one supporting each other with cover fire more intelligently.

OFP doesn't seem to have seperate AIs for the different infantry types, the machine gunners use regular close-range tactics, instead of acting like machine gunners and laying down covering fire, etc.

[GD Soldat 0]

I've tried playing this way, too, giving the men a bit more independence in accomplishing the objectives--just pointing to the map and saying, "It's over there." Sometimes they can surprise you with how well they perform; I find AI AT troops to be particularly vicious, since they often can hit enemy armor from a long distance and with great accuracy.

Of course, there are other roles where it's better to be the one behind the gun/wheel... Anything involving driving a vehicle (except maybe a plane or helicopter, never did get too good with those), sniping, and house-to-house streetfighting, for a few examples. The AI troops just aren't aware enough to be as effective a sniper as I am; likewise for the village fights. Still, it's fun in its own way to be the one who sits back and runs the show, even if in some situations the men can't do it as well as a human would.

GroßdeutschlandSoldat

[Milkman 1]

I rather be a squady, because the only thing im good at in this game is tank commanding. I just tell them to Engage at Will, Form Line, Danger, Fall back into formation, and i tell my driver to go to the next waypoint. And we kill and kill and kill, i never have to assign targets unless a T80 appears outta nowhere and is about to kill one of us, that when i tell everyone to target something. My Infantry skills? Oh, they suck. Quote and i DO quote from one of my missions "1: All Engage BMP, 2: Engaging, 3: engaging, 4:engaging, 7: engaging, 1: All report Status... , 1: damn 2 is down, 1: damn 3 is down, 1: Oh no, 4 is down, 1: 7 is down." Maybe its just me or maybe my squad members dont really qualify as "Mentally Fit" ie RETARDED!  

[walker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (toadeater @ Jan. 22 2003,00:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> The only thing that's really lacking in all this is that there isn't a command to have your squad ADVANCE IN FORMATION. That is, keep the backup in the back, the soldiers leading, etc. Once you tell them to advance, they start going off in all directions and wind up doing something stupid like walking into the middle of the enemy base. This is the one thing that Ghost Recon really beats OFP at, the troops in that are much more careful and don't go running off on their own if you try to have a coordinated advance. By that I mean not just in the wedge formation, but each one supporting each other with cover fire more intelligently.

OFP doesn't seem to have seperate AIs for the different infantry types, the machine gunners use regular close-range tactics, instead of acting like machine gunners and laying down covering fire, etc.

<span id='postcolor'>

Try this

Select each of the members of your squads using the function keys

and asign each to a team using the 9,9 key(qwertyboard) and choose a number for a team(coloured in the the squad display)

Now you can use the 1 move key to send the diferent squads off in different movement drills flank left, flank right, stayback advance etc.

Kind Regards walker

[David Shipley 0]

I know exacty what you mean, Walker. Teams are exactly what's needed for an advance under threat of fire; one has to cover the other.

I usually organize my squad into two fireteams, with each fireteam having an M-16, M-203, machinegun and LAW or medic. That means each fireteam can handle itself.

But that's for close-range engagements or ambushes. If I see enemy over a hill at long-range, and I want to engage them, I leave two of my machinegunners (or snipers) behind to cover me, and charge with the rest of my men.

If I see enemy, the machinegunners will instantly engage them. And they will become the target instead of me and, because they're far away, there's usually no return fire. (Make sure to ALWAYS target the long-range enemy machinegunners FIRST.)

I have to admit, though, you just can't do city or even town-fighting with AI. They can't handle it. You have to be the guy in front who checks corners, throws grenades and fires from inside of rooms -- AI can't do that.

The most they can do is cover you while you're doing those things. And they saved me quite a few times!

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (David Shipley @ Jan. 21 2003,19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know, I've been playing OFP for a few years now. I still love the game... but lately, though, I've grown -- well -- tired of being the guy who has to kill everybody. I'm tired of being the guy who carries the LAW to destroy any tanks that come by. I'm tired of taking all the risk, and basically being Rambo.

And also being the 'Rambo' who dies the most.

Lately, I've shifted to letting my men do everything - I'm just a squad leader now. I tell them where to go, which direction to look at and when to shoot. I micromanage everything, all in an effort to make my team an effective fighting force.

As I went forward, I learned about teams, covering fire and more.

The result? My squad kills more bad guys than I ever did, and suffer less casualties due to good leadership.

And the best part? I almost never die in missions now. I only fight when I have to. Most of the time, I just point out bad guys with my binaculars, and let my men deal with them.

Well anyway, I guess I'm just trying to ask, "Has anybody else tried this?" Considering Operation Flashpoint is supposed to be realistic, I guess this is the most realistic way to play - as squad leader, that is.<span id='postcolor'>

I know what u mean. The biggest problem with micromanaging a squad is getting killed while giving orders.

What I like doing is taking 12 man squads, assign them to colours, dividing them up into a AT squad, Snipers and general troops.

This way I can send each squad away in a different direction quickly without getting surprised by the enemy.

Just my two pennies

[dm 9]

I can't stand the AI, don't get me wrong, BIS did a great job of coding them, but 9 times out of 10 my team sucks, and the enemy kicks ass... for example, most of my team normally get a good ass-kicking form enemy machine gunners at long range, and even if i order them to fire back they try to close the range before fireing. If i take up a machine gun to combat this, i can't hit jack... the recoil makes aiming imposible... It just makes me wonder how the AI machine gunners can achieve headshots at 500m +

I'm am definately a multi-player man, playing with humans provides much more of a challenge, as not only are they free thinking, and willing to take control of their own lives, they allways provide a better challenge than the AI...

When flying helicopters, human opponents will fly nap-of-the-earth (5 metres off the deck to you and me) and will engage with random flight patterns and more accurate weponeering...

Human players are also more capable of conducting pop-up attacks, where the AI will wait quite happily at 50 metres, get spotted and shot down...

CQB is also more fun and challenging when playing with 20 human players, as the Ai does indeed suck at CQB...

Also the Nam Pack... much more fun playing with humans, the AI just doesn't re-create the Nam feeling that human players do...

Of course i realise that the AI is indeed limited due to gameplay and technological reasons, but I feel that with a bit of tweaking, you couldn't tell the difference between the 2...

[David Shipley 0]

Deadmeat,

Are you sure you're using your binaculars to spot the enemy? You have to right-click at every enemy you see to allow your machinegunners to shoot at them from long-range. Works beautifully - they're much better shots than I could ever be with a machinegun.

For short-range engagements, use normal view, but keep on right-clicking on any enemy you see.

It's a simple fact: if you don't spot the enemy for your men, they won't fire until fired upon, and will eventually die.

You basically have to act as a spotter for your men, and direct fire to the enemy.

This is what happens when you don't spot for your guys:

- Enemy fires first

- One man down/wounded

- We return fire and kill the enemy

- Enemy fires again

- One man down/wounded

- We return fire and kill the enemy

And it goes on and on like that until one squad is eventually wiped-out. This 50-50 ratio (or lower! is too much for the type of missions we have to do in OFP. But, by spotting for your soldiers, continuous and sustained fire can be delivered to the enemy; not allowing them to return fire.

Tip: Always take out machinegunners FIRST from long-range. The rest of the rifle-equpped squad will run like chickens from not being able to return fire at such a distance.

2nd tip: Always have two or more machinegunners per-squad. When one gets killed, select a rifleman to take over as machinegunner.

3rd tip: Only fire when you have to, or you will become a target. If you have to fire, quickly findsome nearby cover to hide behind. (You only have two seconds before there's return-fire!

4th tip: Tell your squad to STOP when attacking or defending. Movement means death in OFP. Let the enemy run around if they want to, waiting to be picked off by trigger-happy riflemen. Let them be the HUMAN WAVE.

You should only move under controlled methods in hot areas. You know what I mean -- only with one fireteam staying behind to quickly silence any fire directed at you.

5th tip: Always be in the fireteam that's moving forward. It's more dangerous, but you have to be there to spot the enemy for them, and the the fireteam staying behind.

6th tip: Wen one of your men is being shot at, and you don't know where the enemy is, immediately shoot in the general direction of the enemy to divert his attention.

And then hide.

7th tip: When ambushed, all gloves are off. Tell your men to stop to lower their signature, look for some cover, and then fire as much as you can.

Your primary objective is simply to lower the number of casualties of your squad. This is traditional OFP gameplay.

DON'T BE AMBUSHED.

All in all, yeah -- Humans will always be a thousand times better than AI. :-) AI is notoriously bad at everything except infantry, which I guess BIS spent most its time on.

But, when you don't play much multi-player, learning to properly control AI is everything. Even with tanks and helicopters.

[Ruskiesrule 0]

in the earlyer redhammer missions, i find I and other team members survive more if i find a nice bush to hide under and let them handle things, i have no idea why! I can just hide in a bush and watch and more of them survive!

[David Shipley 0]

Ruskiesrule,

You know what? I experienced that, too. It's like they spent more time trying to protect me if I'm with them, or something...

On other OFP missions, though, they just all die if I don't go Rambo and kill at least a quarter of the enemy.

Weird!

[walker 0]

Hi DeadMeatXM2

You will never advance up to officer level in OFP if you dont learn some elementry tactics and strategy and being a Rambo is neither.

I agree with everything David Shipley said except I would also target Officers, snipers black ops and Heavey Greandiers as they all have long range view via binoculars.

Its also important to keep targeting the soldier in charge as this disrupts the squad as they have to reorganise each time and it is this soldier who targets your squad. (If their formation is v they are the one on the centre dito line but all bets are off when they start using the tactics AI and flank teams)

If you follow the tips David Shipley and others have made here you should be able to get kill ratios of close to 9 enemy to 1 of your squad.

Better still use the US Army Field Manuals and learn proper squad tactics.

How will you ever be able to play the strategic missions if you dont learn to command. You wont last 5 minutes playing the Hill assault section of Sainte Marie Hill doing Rambo. In real battles there are more nasties trying to kill you than some mini CQB.

Kind Regards walker

[David Shipley 0]

Beyond the level of officer? Isn't that the limit in OFP?

While using the AI to its full effectiveness is important, good old-fashioned one-man-army does have its merits. :-) In fact, it's the only thing you can do in city-fighting, where AI soldiers get killed too easily; they don't check corners, they don't use grenades, etc., etc. You have to do everything, and your men are only there to cover you if any unexpected soldiers come by.

Anywhere the AI has to move a lot, it doesn't do very well.

I've found, though, that having one soldier 'Stay in Formation' is good to have in city-fighting. He will follow your movements precisely, provide extra firepower (especially if he's a LAW man), and is good to have while crossing dangerous streets (e.g. extra target).

If it's a big city with large streets, though, you might be able to take a long a four-man fireteam with you. But that's the maximum.

The main problem is vehicles, though. AI is very bad at it.

I wish, for example, a tank would switch to HEAT when there's lots of infantry, and just shell areas he thinks they're at -- that's why I do! But there's simply no command that says, "Shoot right over there."

And don't get me started about helicopters.

But, yes, AI is very effective as an infantry force fighting in open or even forest terrain. Ever since I've "taken command," I've stopped dying in missions almost completely, and increased the kill-ratio to increadible levels, in favor of my squad.

And it's just much more fun watching the AI kicking the crap out of an enemy squad, all by itself. :-) It brought new life to OFP.

Well anyway, yes, snipers are a definite priority in the target list. I believe they're at the very top.

I don't know about grenadiers... I don't remember them carrying any binaculars. They're second-tier on the list, ahead of riflemen, if you ask me. (Don't want that random grenade taking out half my squad!

Is that true? If you take out the AI officer, they'll be disorganized for a while? Wow, I never knew that... I guess now I should turn-off that mod that places helmets on all the officers! *Grin*

[dm 9]

Heh... I do know how to play the game... I have been playing the game since it first came out, and have racked up a s**tload of kills (in the 1000's) but I don't believe what i'm reading...

"You should do this" "and that" "and the other"

prey i do specialise in helicopter flying and long range sniping, but i do know how to "grunt it" and get stuck in with my troops...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All in all, yeah -- Humans will always be a thousand times better than AI. :-) AI is notoriously bad at everything except infantry, which I guess BIS spent most its time on.

But, when you don't play much multi-player, learning to properly control AI is everything. Even with tanks and helicopters.<span id='postcolor'>

which bit of "I'm am definately a multi-player man, playing with humans..." don't you get?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Better still use the US Army Field Manuals and learn proper squad tactics.<span id='postcolor'>

or i could use my RAF Field Tactics manuals and training... its all the same...

What the aim of my post was that, althogh the AI is excellent, it doesn't seem to suffer the same limitations we human players have to put up with...

for example, the AI doesn't suffer the recoil effects of any of the weapons half as much as human players do.

With a little tweaking (such as reducing their vision at night time) and dropping their accuracy levels to co-incide what a human player has to put up with...

Also, i prefer Human players due to their spontanuety (this means they will take matters into their own hands and deal with a situation as it arises, like nicking an rpg from a dead soldier, and taking out the bmp thats coming up fast, rather than sitting there like a n0b waiting to either get shot/run over/given orders what to do)

call me a realist, but i think working in these situations with real people has made me expect too much...

maby we should play a little mp walker and David Shipley and see how we fair?

[walker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (David Shipley @ Jan. 22 2003,20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beyond the level of officer? Isn't that the limit in OFP?

<span id='postcolor'>

No that is what the command engine is for

BIS put the singleClick event into the scripting language so we could make a better version of the command engine.

Click the link in my sig you download missions currently up to company level at the chain of command or check out what OFPEC have to say about us

http://www.ofpec.com/

I regularly play missions where I command Platoons and companies that is 12 or more squads. With helmet camera views of each of your squad commanders and formation settings for you platoons. All tied up with a strategic waypoint based command interface and full support from CAS company mortar section and artilery. As well as medical detachements logistics support etc.

I am currently constucting an air battalion level invasion of Nogova mission and Bagel has allready constucted a full dynamic mission based in the Nam era.

Wake up and smell the coffee people the era of the Strategic FPS has dawned.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeadMeatXM2 @ Jan. 22 2003,20:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been playing the game since it first came out, and have racked up a s**tload of kills (in the 1000's) but I don't believe what i'm reading...<span id='postcolor'>

And I command armies to kill thousands a day.  

If you play Sainte Marie Hill and win you commanded a battle where there are nearly 400 enemy troops that have to be killed like a mincing machine; since the time limit is an hour or so. Everytime I play it even when I dont win I kill 2 or 3 hundred Dito playing BS06 (5 hours though just more tank platoons)

Played all the official missions and campaigns End to End play MP on a LAN at least once a week. Internet Less often 56K modem till I moved to this house where we hope to get Cable.

So my Creds on the death and destruction stakes are good.

Kind Regards walker

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (David Shipley @ Jan. 22 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All in all, yeah -- Humans will always be a thousand times better than AI. :-) AI is notoriously bad at everything except infantry, which I guess BIS spent most its time on.

But, when you don't play much multi-player, learning to properly control AI is everything. Even with tanks and helicopters.<span id='postcolor'>

That's not true. Some human players suck so much you can't even imagine.  

Oh, and Ai's not bad at everything. They only do a bad job when they're flying a chopper or a plane. They waste all their rockets on one vehicle. Not good. They seem to be good at everything else.  

[Snoopy 0]

have the AI fight for me? this is usually what happens to me:

(me being 1)

1: enemy machine gunner, 50

1: 2,3,4,5,6,7 target machine gunner, 12 o' clock

2: engaging

3: negative

4: engaging

5: negative

6: negative

2: negative

4: negative

7: negative

1: ALL, move to 01,20

2: negative

3: negative

4: negative

5: negative

6: negative

7: negative

8: negative

9: negative

10: negative

11: negative

12: where are you?

I usually then shoot the AI and do the work myself.

[walker 0]

Hi snoopy

If you were that bad an officer I am suprised the AI dont Frag you

Kind Regards Walker

[David Shipley 0]

Deadmeat: Hey, didn't mean to start an argument, man! I'm sure you're a better player than me one-on-one, and that there is merit in Rambo-style play.

Squad-level play is just something you should try. ;-)

Snoopy: One thing I've learned is to NEVER tell one of your soldiers to "ENGAGE" a unit - it just doesn't work with OFP. Unless you're trying it against a vehicle, don't ever tell one of your men to "ENGAGE" anything.

For that matter, always leave off "ENGAGE AT WILL" so your men don't wander around and get killed.

If you want your soldiers to kill the enemy, simply use your binaculars and right-click on 'em. Your soldiers will then automatically shoot at them, no problem.

SpaceAlex: Yeah, AI in tanks aren't that bad. They happen to be very good with their machineguns and, if you target the RPG guys for them, much more effective on the battlefield.

A Human buddy commanding that tank is so much better, though.

Walker: We seem to both like the same things! Sadly, though, my 1.3 GHz processor is no good for vast armies fighting each other on the open battlefield. I'll have to stick to squad-level tactics, and be the best damn sergeant I can be.

[dm 9]

I wouldn't say I played Rambo style, tbh i very often avoind playing with the AI purely cos it p**ses me off... especially in my sniper missions, where they never behave e.g.

1: "2, move to xxx"

2: "Roger"

1: "2, HALT!"

2: "Roger"

1: "2, hit the dirt!"

2: "Roger"

and what does my friendly no. 2 do? gets up, breaks cover and runs off... does a full circle of my position, drops back down onto the floor (if he hasn't been shot yet) and crawls up net to me... but stop? oh no... he just keeps crawling until he's about 20 metres in front of me....  

                     

anyho...

when playing with humans, all you have to do is type in the msg box:

"hey 'bob' crawl up next to me, and take a look at that enemy position"

(normally typed as: "oi come lok at this, keep low tho")

Also, when planning ambushes, will the AI stay where you put them? No

will they stay under cover? No

will they get scared, get up and run off? Yes...

hmmm....