British police officer killed in anti-terror raid

[Mister Frag 0]

From http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

British police officer killed in anti-terror raid

Tuesday, January 14, 2003 Posted: 5:36 PM EST (2236 GMT)

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Three suspects are in custody after an anti-terrorism raid in northern England Tuesday evening left one police officer dead and four wounded. The raid was connected with the investigation into the recent discovery of the deadly poison ricin in London.

Authorities described the three men in custody as North Africans.

Authorities said a team of officers and immigration officials had gone to the three-story apartment building in Manchester to arrest a suspect under the Terrorism Act 2000. Soon after the raid began, the officers requested backup help.

The officer who was killed in the raid was stabbed in the chest. Of the four others wounded, one was in serious condition at North Manchester General Hospital after being stabbed in his arm, authorities said. One officer also suffered a broken ankle.

Authorities said there was nothing to suggest that anything at the Manchester apartment building posed a risk to public safety.

Last week, four suspects were taken into in custody during a raid on a London apartment and charged in connection with an alleged plot to use the poison ricin.

The four, Mouloud Feddag, Sidali Feddag, Samir Feddag and Mustapha Taleb, were remanded when they appeared at Bow Street Magistrates Court in central London on Monday. They are due to appear at the Old Bailey on Friday.

The four were charged on Saturday under the UK's Terrorism Act 2000 with "possessing articles of value to a terrorist" and involvement in developing or producing "chemical weapons" under the Chemical Weapons Act 1996.

They were part of a group of seven North Africans arrested last week, Scotland Yard said.

A fifth man, Nasreddine Fekhhadji, was charged with two offences of possessing false documents under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act.

He was also due to appear at Bow Street Magistrates' Court on Monday.

A sixth man, whom police have not named, was not charged under the Terrorism Act but is been questioned for alleged possession of drugs and immigration matters.

A seventh man has been released into the custody of the Immigration Service.

(Edit: Fixed Iconboard tags)

[Necromancer- 0]

Why didn't the SAS handle this?

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

As i understand it they were only going to arrest the men as suspects, not take them out- a few detectives and uniformed officers went to arrest the north africans and were jumped by a guy with a large knife

The SAS are military, they would only be used in extreme circumstances, not for a normal search/arrest operation (even if suspected dangerous terrorists were there they would send armed police units similar to a s.w.a.t. team not the SAS)

[Mister Frag 0]

If this raid was truly conducted as a result of the investigation into the recent Ricin incident, I'm really surprised that the police wasn't prepared for possible resistance.

Someone at a higher level in the hierarchy should have to answer for the fact that an officer was killed.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If this raid was truly conducted as a result of the investigation into the recent Ricin incident, I'm really surprised that the police wasn't prepared for possible resistance.<span id='postcolor'>

So far, the police have not had to strongarm anyone concerning counter terrorism matters. Most suspects merely surrender, so they were probably getting complacent.

Normal cops tend to get tunnel vision as well and make a beeline for the nearest suspect, no matter how tooled up they are. There was a incident where a unarmed officer charged a shotgun wielding suspect with a baton. (He didn't e get hurt, but he should have waited for the response team to turn up)

You can guarantee this will be looked into. We don't get many policemen killed over here (Most criminals don't have shooters), so a full investigation will be launced. If anyones head will roll is another matter.

[Paratrooper 0]

I don't think this represents police inadequacy in any way, anyone can get stabbed by a dangerous criminal, no matter what they do. Short of shooting them straight off.

[Mister Frag 0]

I guess what upsets me is that they were going after one or more people that might have been connected to a possible terrorist plot, and who would have been alerted to the fact that other possible co-conspirators had already been arrested. You would therefore not go after these suspects without being prepared for a violent confrontation.

If this was just a visit due to immigration problems, it would be a different story, and I'd say the cops got a bad break. But this was supposed to have been an Anti-Terror raid, at least according to the media.

Regarding the need to strongarm terror suspects, it goes without saying that anyone willing to kill innocent people should be treated with a great deal of caution.

[bn880 5]

I have heard a story of military personnel getting shot up by a sherrif in the states for being suspected terrorists. I don't have any source, but this happened around 11/09/01.

I don't think it is at all isolated, maybe just not publicized.

EDIT: Doh, kind of off topic, when I read the topic title i thought he was killed by FF.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 14 2003,19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have heard a story of military personnel getting shot up by a sherrif in the states for being suspected terrorists.  I don't have any source, but this happened around 11/09/01.

I don't think it is at all isolated, maybe just not publicized.  

EDIT:    Doh, kind of off topic, when I read the topic title i thought he was killed by FF.<span id='postcolor'>

I think you are referring to this incident.

[bn880 5]

My memory of that is faint, and that story is waay to long to read end to end at the moment, but the soldier(s) were actually killed. And it happened inside a building, not outdoors.

Ahh, it doesn't really matter.

EDIT: They were Army reserves...

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 15 2003,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My memory of that is faint, and that story is waay to long to read end to end at the moment, but the soldier(s) were actually killed. And it happened inside a building, not outdoors.

Ahh, it doesn't really matter.

EDIT: They were Army reserves...<span id='postcolor'>

I think I know what you are talking about.

I think the soldiers were in a training ground and the sheriff was a little too..."zealous". I believe he saw them crossing the highway or something.

My memory is fuzzy

[Longinius 1]

Someone once posted a link to it on this forum. If I remember correctly the two soldiers were on exercise and were stopped by a cop. They probably thought he to was part of the exercise. There were guns involved, they refused to drop theirs I think, shooting ensued and people died. Basically... I cant find the link though.

Found it, Ralph posted it a while back

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....sheriff

[nolips71 0]

i saw on the news today about armed police marksman patroling somewhere in wales looking for a big cat

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Jan. 15 2003,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i saw on the news today about armed police marksman patroling somewhere in wales looking for a big cat  <span id='postcolor'>

Fortunately, that episode ended peacefully.

[Mister Frag 0]

From http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Questions over fatal ricin raid

MANCHESTER, England --An inquiry has been ordered into an anti-terror raid which left a police detective dead, as questions were being raised about what went wrong.

Stephen Oake, 40, a detective constable with Special Branch, was killed when a suspect broke free, grabbed a kitchen knife and began stabbing officers.

Oake was not wearing body armour, none of the police involved in the raid were armed, and the suspect was not handcuffed at any time during the hour-long raid on the Manchester flat, police said.

"Police didn't perceive the situation to be a threat," said CNN's Matthew Chance in Manchester.

"They had done a search and believed they had secured the property. It was only after they had been in there for about an hour that suddenly one of the suspects, who had shown no tendency to violence during the hour, had an outburst, grabbed a knife and stabbed several officers.

"There are a lot of questions to be asked, including whether the officers were appropriately protected. This officer was apparently a plainclothes detective and as such wasn't wearing a stab-proof vest as uniformed officers would," Chance said.

"There is an investigation into exactly what happened. They are looking into what recommendations they may make in the future. They are still trying to ascertain what went wrong."

Michael Todd, chief constable for Greater Manchester, said the inquiry would examine whether Special Branch officers should wear protective gear.

"At the moment this is a murder inquiry, but we will be looking into the lessons which can be learned from this," Todd said.

John Stalker, former deputy chief constable of Greater Manchester, said police also should ask why the suspect was not handcuffed, and why he was still in the flat at least an hour after police entered.

"It doesn't surprise me that the Special Branch were not wearing protective gear. The days of Sweeney-style raids are long gone," Stalker said, referring to the anti-robbery Flying Squad, also known by the rhyming slang "Sweeney Todd" and portrayed in the 1970s TV series "The Sweeney."

"Every raid has an element of risk, and the system now is generally to put in protected officers followed by forensic and detectives," Stalker told the UK Press Association.

"So the officers going in later would expect the scene to be preserved and safe."

He said it was "unusual" for suspects not to have been removed from the scene of a raid so long afterwards.

"But this was an anti-terrorist operation and rules can often be a bit different," he said.

Weapons expert Mike Yardley also questioned the tactics involved in Tuesday's fatal incident.

"Special Branch officers would not normally wear body armour. They want to be able to blend into the background," he told PA.

"It's a very British way to go about it -- making yourself vulnerable.

"In this sort of operation you have to take a very different and more cautious approach."

He added: "Knives are of course a greater threat to police officers and indeed to all of us than illicit guns. Far more people are killed with knives than guns.

"Terrorists clearly have a fondness for knives -- for example the situation with al Qaeda hijackers or the culture of knives in Africa."

Assistant Chief Constable Alan Green said that when officers entered the building, the three men in the flat were all "compliant from the outset."

"There was no indication of any violence. They had been in for well over an hour when this man suddenly carried out this attack," Green said.

Chief Constable Todd said: "Officers wearing body armour made the entry as planned, effected the arrest of the three suspects, and then once the scene was secured, the Special Branch officers came in to actually start the evidence and intelligence-gathering phase of the operation.

"During the course of that we had to change tack and it was decided that we were going to conduct a forensic examination and preserve the evidence on the suspects themselves, so we were going to put them in a suit, look for samples on the individuals there and then at the scene," Todd said.

"They were detained and actually being held by officers at the time. So it was then decided that you can't handcuff someone while you are actually conducting that sort of examination.

"One of the individuals was being held by a police officer, a uniformed officer who was protected, and it appears from the debrief that we have done overnight that the suspect managed to break free from the officer, the two of them have then literally, in fighting, gone into the kitchen area, where the suspect has managed to grab hold of a knife," Todd said.

"I have to say then the Special Branch officers, including Steve (Oake), very bravely went to assist their colleagues and that's how he has been fatally stabbed."

Commenting on the fact that the Special Branch officers were not wearing body armour, Todd added: "There was no perceived risk."

About two dozen officers were involved in the raid, none of whom were armed, Green said.

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Jan. 15 2003,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Jan. 15 2003,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i saw on the news today about armed police marksman patroling somewhere in wales looking for a big cat  <span id='postcolor'>

Fortunately, that episode ended peacefully.

<span id='postcolor'>

ROFL!

[bn880 5]

0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aaron Kane @ Jan. 15 2003,120)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Jan. 15 2003,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Jan. 15 2003,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i saw on the news today about armed police marksman patroling somewhere in wales looking for a big cat <span id='postcolor'>

Fortunately, that episode ended peacefully.

<span id='postcolor'>

ROFL!<span id='postcolor'>

Man... I used to have a 36lb, approx 15Kg cat, but I think it looked smaller than that...

He used to growl like a dog and pounce like a tiger(a tiny one).

[nolips71 0]

my current cat called sonic is bigger then that cat he is massive. purrs like a rolls royce merlin