The incredible clemens forrell

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Click on the map on the left.

Yesteday I watched a movie which tells the story of a soldier called Clemens Forrell. As most of his fellow compangnons he was captured in 1945 in Stalingrad, sentenced to 25 prison, and then brought to a working camp in Kap Deschnew (it took one year to get there and only 1/3 survived the marsh) was to be found in the east east east east end of the USSR, in the middle of the sybirian tundra and surrounded by snow snow snow (at least 2000km). Still he attempts to escape in 1949 and the fails. After a terrible torture he tries again within 3 years he travelled 14.203 km (most on food) and finds his way back to his wife, son and daughter in 1952. Those years are hard and colorful, The story of the next three years would be incredible if Forell were not at present living in Germany (1958) to bear witness to what happened. He learnt how to make the Siberian wastes an ally instead of an enemy; he fell in with wandering tribes who taught him how to hunt, keep warm and live off the land. He roamed about for a long time with three escaped Russian criminals, and survived their attempt to murder him. He stole, contrived, he endured, and all the time was drifting southwards and westwards and in the end could escape to Persia.

good book good film and Incredible Story.

Do you know any other great stories of men that have accomplished the incredible. Not necessarily WWI or WWII.

[theavonlady 2]

Ann Sullivan, the Miracle Worker, and her pupil, Helen Keller.

[cam0flage 0]

Sorry for being a nitpicker, but I suppose he was captured in Stalingrad during years 1942-43, not in 1945 like you said I'm sorry if he did hide in Stalingrad for 2 years - that must have been good practice for further hiding in the Siberian tundra.

I have a faint memory of reading a book about this when I was like 10 years old; something like the guy digging himself under several meters of snow to avoid the dogs which the Russians used to track him? Not sure, might be a different story.

Here is a story of a German soldier who escaped the encirclement at Stalingrad after the German defences collapsed.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cam0flage @ Jan. 08 2003,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry for being a nitpicker, but I suppose he was captured in Stalingrad during years 1942-43, not in 1945 like you said I'm sorry if he did hide in Stalingrad for 2 years - that must have been good practice for further hiding in the Siberian tundra.

I have a faint memory of reading a book about this when I was like 10 years old; something like the guy digging himself under several meters of snow to avoid the dogs which the Russians used to track him? Not sure, might be a different story.

Here is a story of a German soldier who escaped the encirclement at Stalingrad after the German defences collapsed.<span id='postcolor'>

No, you are absolutely correct! What happened in 1945 was that all the captured soldiers were rounded up and send to syberia, actually 1945 was the year of the RAPID RUSSIAN TRIALS when basically all soldiers got a punishment of 25 years in a working camp!

"Im Herbst 1945 werden 3.000 deutsche Kriegsgefangene von Moskau nach Sibirien verschickt, allesamt zu 25 Jahren Zwangsarbeit verurteilt"

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Jan. 07 2003,18:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, you are absolutely correct! What happened in 1945 was that all the captured soldiers were rounded up and send to syberia, actually 1945 was the year of the RAPID RUSSIAN TRIALS when basically all soldiers got a punishment of 25 years in a working camp!

"Im Herbst 1945 werden 3.000 deutsche Kriegsgefangene von Moskau nach Sibirien verschickt, allesamt zu 25 Jahren Zwangsarbeit verurteilt"<span id='postcolor'>

For the benefit of our fellow forum members who do not speak German, here is the translation:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"In the Fall of 1945, 3000 German Prisoners of War are being sent from Moscow to Siberia, all of them sentenced to 25 years of forced labor."<span id='postcolor'>

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Thank you honourable Mr. Frag. This is a highly accurate translation. Okay here comes a tougher one:

Es ist jedenfalls ein sehr modernes Joch, das Goethe in genialer Wortschöpfung als "veloziferisch" bezeichnet: als Verschränkung von Velocitas (die Eile) und Luzifer. Faust ist immerhin "avant la lettre", er will bereits mehr als er weiß. Er erscheint als der moderne Blitzkrieger der Erfüllung jener Wünsche einer Forderungs- und Anspruchsgesellschaft, die alles will, und zwar sofort. Und was Luzifer alias Mephisto der Ungeduld Fausts andient, sind denn auch schon jene Instrumente des Veloziferischen, deren Erscheinungsformen am Ende des 20. Jahrhunderts zwar andere Namen tragen, aber dieselben Dinge meinen: der schnelle Degen, die schnelle Liebe, der schnelle Mantel, das schnelle Geld und zum Schluß: der schnelle Mord (an Philemon und Baucis). Und Fausts globales Dorf, von Mephistos Gnaden, gebietet bereits perfekt über virtuelle Welten, wie wir sie heute mit Videoclips und beim Zappen zwischen TV-Kanälen kreieren. Sein virtuelles Arsenal reicht von Walpurgisnächten aller Art bis zur heraufzitierten schönen Helena, von den archaischen Tiefen der Mütter bis zum Lärm längst geschlagener Schlachten. Es sind immer rascher wechselnde Filmschnittsequenzen einer Beschleunigungskultur mit Luzifer als omnipotentem Artifex einer (kaiserlichen Hof- und) Unterhaltungsgesellschaft, die sich bereits im Zeichen grandioser Oberflächlichkeit und eines perfekten Zeitmanagements zu Tode amüsiert.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

That is an amazing story. Does anyone know the number of Germans from Army Group Paulus that ever actually made it home?

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Jan. 07 2003,18:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thank you honourable Mr. Frag. This is a highly accurate translation. Okay here comes a tougher one: <span id='postcolor'>

Albert, you seem to forget that I'm German.

Anyway, that last quote looks like it came from the Hohlspiegel section in the back of "Der Spiegel"!

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Jan. 08 2003,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Es ist jedenfalls ein sehr modernes Joch, das Goethe in genialer Wortschöpfung als "veloziferisch" bezeichnet: als Verschränkung von Velocitas (die Eile) und Luzifer.  Faust ist immerhin "avant la lettre", er will bereits mehr als er weiß.  Er erscheint als der moderne Blitzkrieger der Erfüllung jener Wünsche einer Forderungs- und Anspruchsgesellschaft, die alles will, und zwar sofort.  Und was Luzifer alias Mephisto der Ungeduld Fausts andient, sind denn auch schon jene Instrumente des Veloziferischen, deren Erscheinungsformen am Ende des 20. Jahrhunderts zwar andere Namen tragen, aber dieselben Dinge meinen: der schnelle Degen, die schnelle Liebe, der schnelle Mantel, das schnelle Geld und zum Schluß: der schnelle Mord (an Philemon und Baucis).  Und Fausts globales Dorf, von Mephistos Gnaden, gebietet bereits perfekt über virtuelle Welten, wie wir sie heute mit Videoclips und beim Zappen zwischen TV-Kanälen kreieren.  Sein virtuelles Arsenal reicht von Walpurgisnächten aller Art bis zur heraufzitierten schönen Helena, von den archaischen Tiefen der Mütter bis zum Lärm längst geschlagener Schlachten.  Es sind immer rascher wechselnde Filmschnittsequenzen einer Beschleunigungskultur mit Luzifer als omnipotentem Artifex einer (kaiserlichen Hof- und) Unterhaltungsgesellschaft, die sich bereits im Zeichen grandioser Oberflächlichkeit und eines perfekten Zeitmanagements zu Tode amüsiert.

<span id='postcolor'>

one word.

Babelfish.

i'd appreciate some english translation from our friend Albert

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 08 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">one word.

Babelfish.<span id='postcolor'>

Lol have you forgotten the late infamous cereal thread? That was a perfect example of why software translators are only good for a laugh!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Jan. 07 2003,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 08 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">one word.

Babelfish.<span id='postcolor'>

Lol have you forgotten the late infamous cereal thread? That was a perfect example of why software translators are only good for a laugh!<span id='postcolor'>

Gotta see that one, what should I search for, cereal? I'll do it tomorrow. Time for my formula and bed, school tomorrow.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 08 2003,04:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gotta see that one, what should I search for, cereal? I'll do it tomorrow. Time for my formula and bed, school tomorrow. <span id='postcolor'>

No use in doing that, like the great Therapy Thread, it too was deleted . I think I did save the main part of it as a text file, but somehow I think posting it might be pushing my luck with the mods .

[Blake 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Jan. 08 2003,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is an amazing story. Does anyone know the number of Germans from Army Group Paulus that ever actually made it home?<span id='postcolor'>

Out of 90.000 6th Army POWs, about 5000 returned to Germany in the 50s.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blake @ Jan. 09 2003,06:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Jan. 08 2003,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is an amazing story. Does anyone know the number of Germans from Army Group Paulus that ever actually made it home?<span id='postcolor'>

Out of 90.000 6th Army POWs, about 5000 returned to Germany in the 50s.<span id='postcolor'>

Damn. I've heard numbers similar to that before, but I thought they were hyperbole

[Blake 0]

Well, Germans didn't treat Soviet POWs any better. A figure represented here: http://www.gendercide.org/case_soviet.html

illustrates that by mid-1944 3.5 million Soviet POWs were shot, starved or died of disease.

And for survivors, the end of war was not the end of their suffering. Many who returned to Soviet Union were sent to Gulags as 'traitors' or 'spies' and perhaps hundreds of thousands more perished.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I have no doubt about it, it's just that that prison camp attrition rate is noteworthy even by WWII standards. That and since almost all the prisoners taken in Stalingrad were 6th Army, you can get the full statistical impact without too much mathematical heavy-lifting.