Question about this red star

[red oct 2]

i've been looking at this page in addons, and than it got me thinking, why do they continue to put the red star on their vehicles? the USSR has been gone for over 10 years. shouldn't they just have the russian flag (the white, blue, and red, not the hammer and sickel)

[edc 0]

They have the Russian flag on the tail. The red star is probably easier to identify than the flag.

[Supah 0]

One would assume that the redstar is the symbol which identifies russian military aircraft as russian. Just like the ANG (Air National Guard, every american state in essence has its own little army and airforce) units in the use use the star and bar while they are not federally owned (AFAIK) So the red star may not be soviet/communist in origin. These symbols were fixed at one time (dont ask me where and when) to avoid confuscion in battle. Hope that answers your question

[Badgerboy 0]

I agree, it's likely the Star is used as a identification tool for aircraft, in the same way the modern day Luftwaffe still use the Iron Cross.

[Supah 0]

Yes but unlike what many people think it has nothing what so ever to do with the nazi regime. It was their identifying mark before and after that regime. Though the design of it has been altered slighty from how it looked in the second world war

[Supah 0]

btw a german forum member might know this but isnt it actually called the "Maltezer kreuz" ? I believe i read that somewhere once and not the iron cross

[vade_101 0]

dunno about the symbol but the Iron Cross Medal is way older than the Nazi's .. I belive it came it was a Prussian Decoration introduced in 1813 during the war with Napoleon

[FSPilot 0]

I bet $50 maltezer kreuz means "iron cross" in German.

[Supah 0]

No it doesnt I know it means Maltese cross Iron is eisen in german (or something sounding similar) and i believe the iron cross is called the knights cross officially

[Badgerboy 0]

Well its officially, The Knights Cross to the Iron Cross.

Iron Cross 2nd Class

Iron Cross 1st Class

Knights Cross to the Iron Cross

Oak Leaves to the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross

Swords + Oak Leaves to the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross

Diamonds, Swords + Oak Leaves to the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross

Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, + Diamonds to the Knights cross of the Iron Cross - Special Case, only one awarded.

As you can see, it can get a bit of a mouthful. All the Knights Cross' are awarded to the Iron Cross, along with their embelishments.

[Supah 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Nov. 27 2002,01:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, + Diamonds to the Knights cross to the Iron Cross - Special Case, only one awarded.<span id='postcolor'>

Wasnt that to Michael wittman the ww2 tank commander? Because of his actions around the town of Viller Bocage?

[Badgerboy 0]

No, Hans-Ulrich Rudel was awarded this decoration, for his acheivements in the Stuka:

His confirmed victories (those witnessed by two or more fellow pilots) include:

518+ Tanks

700 Trucks

150+ Flak and Artillery positions

9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft

Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.

Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft

A one man army! Witmann was awarded Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds to his Knights Cross

[Supah 0]

Wasnt rudel later handed over to the russians partly because of his skills as a pilot when the war was over?

[Badgerboy 0]

Rudel had a 100,000 ruble bounty put on him by Stalin, but he surrendered to the Allies, and wasn't turned over to the Soviets.

The man you are thinking of is Erich Hartmann, the greatest ace of all time with 352 confirmed kills. He surrendered to an American tank company, who then promptly handed him over to the Soviets. He then spent 10 years in the Gulag before finally being released.

They actually tried hin for war crimes... The charge?

'Destruction of the Motherlands military property!'

Those crazy Communists!

-------------------------------

Remember though, The Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, is the equivilent to 4 VC's, or Medals of Honour. It is is very, very, high award.

[cam0flage 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">President Vladimir Putin agreed Tuesday to reinstate the Soviet-era red star as the military's official emblem -- in the latest reincarnation of communist symbols that has sparked fears of a return to the repressive past.<span id='postcolor'>

Read more here: Putin Agrees to Restore Soviet Star

[Supah 0]

Ive found this image of a russian ww1 (prior to the revolution) aircraft. This one shows the national insignia

The red star wasnt its national insignia back then so it must have come in with communism how ever i think its not a communist symbol. It has become synonimous with the russian armed forces not with the communist party (atleast in my eyes)

[Sam Samson 0]

actually, it is a commie symbol. it symbolizes the five continents of the world and communist conquest of those.

...and didn't they create the oak-leave-ritterkreuz w diamonds for rudel?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 27 2002,23:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">actually, it is a commie symbol. it symbolizes the five continents of the world and communist conquest of those.<span id='postcolor'>

Lol, that is a nice spin on it, but not true

It symbolizes the five continents and their unity/solidarity. The hammer and sickle are representing the solidarity between worker and peasant.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...and didn't they create the oak-leave-ritterkreuz w diamonds for rudel?<span id='postcolor'>

The Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds was the highest award you could recieve, of which few Germans recieved. This was the equivelent of 4 V.C's, or 4 Medals of honour.

Rudel has a special award created. He had already obtained the Oak's, Swords, and Diamonds, so he had a special award presented to him.

This was the;

GOLDEN Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds, to the Knights Cross, of the Iron Cross.

The award has Golden Oakleaves, and a gold border to the Knights Cross, instead of the usual silver.

[supersheep 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

No, Hans-Ulrich Rudel was awarded this decoration, for his acheivements in the Stuka:

His confirmed victories (those witnessed by two or more fellow pilots) include:

518+ Tanks

700 Trucks

150+ Flak and Artillery positions

9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft

Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.

Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft

<span id='postcolor'>

that is one impressive tally, something like a couple of tank divsions all on his own? and a battleship! with a stuka! and i thought wittman holding up an entire division practically on his own was pretty damn good. how long did all that take him?

[cybrid 0]

About the cross, does the iron cross look different from the knights cross? and the military symbol is the iron cross right?

[Balschoiw 0]

ok this is the Iron Cross first class:

450000 German soldiers and other honourable people or relatives received this one.

then we have the Iron Cross second class:

handed to soldiers or relatives over 3000000 times.

Then we have the Knights Cross to Iron Cross:

A step higher comes the Knightscross with oak leaves:

One step ahead the Knightscross with oak leaves and crossed swords with diamonds:

And the top of the list is the Golden Knightscross with oak leaves and crossed swords with diamonds:

This one has only been awarded one time during WW2.

Oberst der Luftwaffe Hans-Ulrich Rudel received it on 1.1.1945 for 2530 flown missions in wich he destroyed 519 airplanes, round 800 vehicles, sunk one cruiser and damaged another battleship heavily.

Yes the basic form of the actual Bundeswehr sign is the same as the iron cross first class.

Need more ?  

This is one of 3 medals I received for UN service. I never wear them but maybe my kids will someday sell them for good money