War on iraq

[Guest]

Article from CNN:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pentagon prepares for possible war

Sunday, November 10, 2002 Posted: 25 AM EST (0705 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As Iraq considers whether to accept the conditions in the U.N. Security Council resolution passed Friday, Pentagon officials are preparing for the possibility of war if Saddam Hussein refuses to disarm.

President Bush has not approved a final war plan, officials have told CNN, but several scenarios are being considered.

One plan involves what Pentagon officials and military analysts call a 21st century blitzkrieg -- referring to the surprise attacks involving aircraft and fast-moving armor used by Germany at the beginning of World War II.

Sources said that in that strategy, the United States and its allies would launch a ferocious opening air assault involving hundreds, or possibly thousands, of all-weather, satellite-guided bombs and cruise missiles combined with covert missions and psychological operations.

The goal, the sources said is to demoralize Saddam's generals and discourage them from following orders to unleash chemical or biological weapons.

Officials are concerned that the Iraqi president could order the use of chemical or biological weapons if he feels that his regime is threatened.

Analysts said the current plan targets the "centers of gravity" that keep him in power -- his weapons of mass destruction, the Republican Guard and his presidential palaces.

Officials estimate that invading Iraq would involve 80,000 to 250,000 U.S. troops which will have to come from the United States and bases in Europe.

There are currently about 27,000 U.S. troops in the region.

Pentagon sources said that it was unlikely that the necessary troops and their equipment could be moved into position before February. That would also give U.S. assembly lines more time to replenish the military stocks of highly accurate J-DAM 2,000 pound bombs that have been very effective in the war in Afghanistan.

<span id='postcolor'>

Now, my question is:What strategy would you use, if you were in charge of the US military?

Note that this is not a thread about should the US attack Iraq or not, but just a view on the military aspects. No politics please.

[Lord Ryan 0]

Large scale Special Ops ,A10 and helicopters

Targets : Weapon Facilities/Army Bases

Radar,bunkers,SAM and artillery positions

No Bombers (as B-52) because they kill far too many civilians as in afghanistan and friendly fire

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now, my question is:What strategy would you use, if you were in charge of the US military?

Note that this is not a thread about should the US attack Iraq or not, but just a view on the military aspects. No politics please.<span id='postcolor'>

if it was only me .... i would applya blitzkrieg like tactic , and i would annihilate any resistance point with tactical nukes ....

is that good ?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lord Ryan @ Nov. 10 2002,18:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Large scale Special Ops ,A10 and helicopters

Targets : Weapon Facilities/Army Bases

Radar,bunkers,SAM and artillery positions

No Bombers (as B-52) because they kill far too many civilians as in afghanistan and friendly fire<span id='postcolor'>

every method would cause more or less allied and civilian casualties

the massive use of close air support vectors such as attack helicopters and attack bombers will result in a relatively important number of those aircrafts getting shot down

the large scale black ops would also cause a lot of casualities in those special forces units , and why sending black ops when a grunt can do the same thing , it would be misusing human ressources , sending a mass number of elite troops will only make you loose troops of a really high value

and sending an a10 won't change much when i will come to attack a radar station in the middle of a densely urbanised area , a10's bmobs explode just like b52 ones

and that way , you won't be able to destroy SAM sites really easily since you don't wanna send armor , and sf raids would lead in collective suicide for the unit in charge of the mission because then again , these sites will be either heavily guarded or spread in highly populated zones

and this would limit the aerial support and , leaving the elite troops without air support making them less elite than they normally are

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I would use the exact same method as last time - large scale cruise missile and aerial attack on all tactical installations (airports, sam sites, etc.), added by SF teams attacking infrastructure for logistics (blowing up bridges, train stations, mining highway's etc.). Once their military is on their knees rush in with tanks and IFV's covered by attack choppers and continues air support, take key strategic sites (airports, army camps etc.) and surround (but not enter) Iraqi cities. Maybe take Baghdad and immediately proclaim a curfew - anyone on the streets after dusk will be shot without warning. In the meantime, SF forces start looking for Saddam and other high ranking officials.

While Iraqi cities are being starved and negotiate their surrender, Baghdad turns into Palestine - curfews, "evacuation" of potentially hazardous civilians (males aged 16-60), strict military control.

How's that

[ralphwiggum 6]

the US's 'scenario' is pretty much well known, and Ex-Ronin's post sums it up. this is like optimal solution from game theory. you know opponent's move and you make your move, and result is known.

ofcourse, Iraq can do some things to change outcome, but not much. If US goes in, except for populated areas, US will control, and be able to exert force on populated areas.

[Jamesia 0]

i think i'd nuke baghdad.

(or woteva the capital is and however you spell it)

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Nov. 10 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would use the exact same method as last time - large scale cruise missile and aerial attack on all tactical installations (airports, sam sites, etc.), added by SF teams attacking infrastructure for logistics (blowing up bridges, train stations, mining highway's etc.). Once their military is on their knees rush in with tanks and IFV's covered by attack choppers and continues air support, take key strategic sites (airports, army camps etc.) and surround (but not enter) Iraqi cities. Maybe take Baghdad and immediately proclaim a curfew - anyone on the streets after dusk will be shot without warning. In the meantime, SF forces start looking for Saddam and other high ranking officials.

While Iraqi cities are being starved and negotiate their surrender, Baghdad turns into Palestine - curfews, "evacuation" of potentially hazardous civilians (males aged 16-60), strict military control.

How's that <span id='postcolor'>

Basically what I was gonna say

[VXR 9]

i would set Patroid Defence around Iraq so it can catch the missles and scuds that may get launched when a attack begins, i also would protect importand places like subways and airports etc in europe etc so a posible attack with chemicals o subways or something would be small.

for the attack i would say that like Afganistan much cruisemissles and B52 bombers etc would be used to bomb importand places like posible chemical factorys or weapon factory seen on satelite photos and spec ops, also spec op forces to seek for scudlaunchers and have airstrike ready to take one out in 10 a 20 mins or less, apaches, cobras to get behind the lines and take out Radar and AA.

when most of the treaths are destroyed (chem. factorys, radars, AA, Scuds) a attack with many infantry transported with helicopters and supported by apaches cobras to take in citys bridges at the same time as the troops movein a big group of armor into iraq.

if US is gone attack and Saddam thinks he cant get out anymore he probaly set all oilrigs etc on fire and that fire will take about 4 years or something oil will become much expensiver so kinda a economic crisis will come

[Guest]

Come to think of it, the whole question was too easy and with too many possible options.

I'll change the question into this:

If you were Saddam, how would you defend Iraq?

That's a bit more of an interesting question.

[Renagade 0]

Start a ground war then use nerve gas killing everything in iraq extended to iran and neighboring countries then blame it on saddamn releasing his WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

Show it on news loads of times then have a news flash saying that secret documents were found that shows he was aided from north korea then invade korea at a later date.

2 birds,one stone- sorted

[VXR 9]

i would wait till the us is about to attack

then treat them with saying to set all oilrigs and silos on fire or set scuds at the border and blow some citys in israel or iran but setting all oil supply on fire and drop chem. bombs on invading us troops

[ralphwiggum 6]

play Britney Spear's album and annoy the hell out of US troops and destroy their morales.

1. move the important stuffs from official gov't facility. move them to civilian location.

2. bring closer other military resources to Baghdad. united they stand, devided they fall.

3.use number-superiority tactics along with guerilla tactics. i.e. attack small group of US forces using massive number, and hit and run.

4.media manipulation. there are plenty of fools in western hemisphere that will fall for that.

5.prolong the war as much as possible. Iraq will suffer, but US's reputation will too. and wait till summer when US troops start thinking of getting suntan instead of fighting.

[VXR 9]

hmm i think korea is a bit too much to attack just after the attack on iraq, maybe korea is gone get normal when china us and russia tell to demolish that nukes etc

[Lord Ryan 0]

if i was saddam id sell all my tanks and helis,when i have enough money,i buy the second stargate off the russians and evac me and all iraquis to P3X 568

[Harnu 0]

Can you tell which planet that was? If you can I have a few names to call you

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,19:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come to think of it, the whole question was too easy and with too many possible options.

I'll change the question into this:

If you were Saddam, how would you defend Iraq?

That's a bit more of an interesting question.<span id='postcolor'>

bingo!

with all moral bars removed I'd to that:

being handicapped by military inferiority and knowing the US will have to rely on a coalition I would immediately start sowing discord among its allies.

I's promise lucrative post sanction oil deals to ambitious nations, who would then inauspiciously work for me on the propaganda front.

I'd utilize the israeli/palestinian situation to its max.

I'd rely on the west's very own pluralism and diversity to make warmaking as difficult as possible for the coalition.

I'd act out of nature by doing good in a humanitarian sense.

and I'd start to build AT defenses on presumed attack routes miles deep right today.

[Guest]

First of all attack Israel. Last gulf war it almost succeeded in breaking the support for US from the other Arab states. Now the support is much more fragile and the other Arab countries don't fear Iraq.

Prolong the war to the winter. The desert in the winter is not at all warm and coasy and it is possible that the enemy logistics will fail (especially without bases in neigbouring Arab countries).

Scorched earth tactics.

Draw the fighting to the cities. Go for a high US body count instead of holding as much territory as possible.

Mine and destroy all refineries, oil wells and production facilities so that the next Iraqi government has to start from zero.

Prepare a well armed guerilla movement.

Initiate attacks on US soil against military, economic and civilian infrastructure. (Should be considered, however could be a very bad move because it would rally support for the war agianst Iraq)

Propaganda, lots of it. Convince the Iraqi people that the evil American Zionistâ„¢ have come to kill all Iraqi.

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mine and destroy all refineries, oil wells and production facilities so that the next Iraqi government has to start from zero.

<span id='postcolor'>

that will get into a economic crisis for the whole world

[SantaMania 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,19:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come to think of it, the whole question was too easy and with too many possible options.

I'll change the question into this:

If you were Saddam, how would you defend Iraq?

That's a bit more of an interesting question.<span id='postcolor'>

I would nuke the US and flee from Iraq.

But then again, Iraq have no nukes, and have no intentions of making a war - so if i had any faith in the western world, I would know that the rest of the world wouldnt let an agressor such as the US murder innocent people.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SantaMania @ Nov. 10 2002,20:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,19:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come to think of it, the whole question was too easy and with too many possible options.

I'll change the question into this:

If you were Saddam, how would you defend Iraq?

That's a bit more of an interesting question.<span id='postcolor'>

I would nuke the US and flee from Iraq.

But then again, Iraq have no nukes, and have no intentions of making a war - so if i had any faith in the western world, I would know that the rest of the world wouldnt let an agressor such as the US murder innocent people.<span id='postcolor'>

What part about "no politics" was confusing to you?

Also, if you can't post without flame baiting, don't.

[Jinef 2]

Lot's of people in this thread have said "I would use the exact same method as last time".

Maybe this is the theory of reverse phsycology at work, Iraq will not expect you to be stupid enough to do everything the same so by doing it you will catch them completely off guard.

Attacking

If i was doing it i would have to take in the consideration that there is no support from surrounding countries so it would have to be all based from the Persian Gulf. There are large amounts of mines but not many troops at landing so the first casualties would be a few engineers. Then under aircover of Strike Fighters i would move Armoured units with mechanised infantry up to checkpoints over a few months drawing out forces that try to flank and destroy them. I would then take position outside Baghdad and talk to the goverment about a surrender demonstrating our firepower shooting at hills etc. If no go on the negotiations then i would call (from TB) in the SAS to conduct dissruption and survelliance in Baghdad using their knowledge of 60 years experience in place like NI and the Deserts of North Africa.

I would try at all costs to prevent from going in to the city creating the biggest street war on the face of the planet. If there would be no joy then i would conduct anti military personnel operations on the outskirts of the city and try to draw them out to reinforce the outer perimetre. But as we slowly move in you are going to get civvies trying to kill you so the USMC has anti riot stuff and we could use CS gas (will cause death in some circumstances) and sticky foam stuff to restrain the population. I would then grab (again with SAS) SH and all of his impersonators and detain them (make up a charge) until we find some evidence of him denying people human rights and stick him (all thirteen of him) in prison.

No bother about getting hit with chemical weapons, just do the "if you do we will nuke you" routine.

[VXR 9]

yeah but saddam doesnt care if they are already attacking him

[SantaMania 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,20:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SantaMania @ Nov. 10 2002,20:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 10 2002,19:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come to think of it, the whole question was too easy and with too many possible options.

I'll change the question into this:

If you were Saddam, how would you defend Iraq?

That's a bit more of an interesting question.<span id='postcolor'>

I would nuke the US and flee from Iraq.

But then again, Iraq have no nukes, and have no intentions of making a war - so if i had any faith in the western world, I would know that the rest of the world wouldnt let an agressor such as the US murder innocent people.<span id='postcolor'>

What part about "no politics" was confusing to you?

Also, if you can't post without flame baiting, don't.<span id='postcolor'>

Theres no politics in it, and its not flaming.

[Jinef 2]

Defending (put on my mustache and uniform)

With the new AA weapon systems i've got i will shoot down planes from concealed urban areas where the risk of collateral damage will be too high to bomb or missile. I will then send my guys to burn all the bodies of people i've had shot just in case the smurfs come sniffing. My armour is shit compared to the US's so i will use it as emplacements in the city instead of mobile armour. I will then conduct very primitive anti awacs missions with low flying SU-17s that i just got cheap on wholesale (but i don't expect them to be successful). After the rounds start flying i will get a spoon and start digging underground until i reach a small remote island and then everyone will forget about me and my chums.

but seriously he would have to base the fighting inside the cities to be anywhere near evenly chanced.