A request for an f-22 raptor

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dudealus @ Sep. 30 2002,21:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why does everybody here think stealth is really fantastic.during desert storm 2 f117 were shot down, only the us gevorment didn't admit it. It just takes well trained radar operators to spot them and fire a missile on them<span id='postcolor'>

Its true. I saw them. I was there. My profile lied again, I live in Iraq.

[RaptorAce 0]

yeah, i bet

[Aaron Kane 0]

I'm not kidding. A Hind almost hit me in the face. It left a scar. Scars dont lie

[Stag 0]

I'm convinced. He is an Overthrown President after all, and politicians don't lie, do- Er....

Never mind.

[RaptorAce 0]

lol...

i think its safe to say that this can go in off topic now

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i don't know about that, i think there have been dogfights in israeli wars and desert storm that used guns to shoot down an aircraft. <span id='postcolor'>

One word..... Sparrows!

The Aim-7 was a lousy semi-active missile. The AMRAAM had only come into effect with select units in the Gulf. The last Arab/Israeli war showed that the semi-active missiles of those times were equally poor.

Besides, you wouldn't want to get into a dogfight. Few people can do it well. Unless you can cope with massive sensory input, plus getting SA, you will be safer and more effective at long range.

Only a fool would choose a dogfight over BVR.

[The_Captain 0]

A plane that would have more use in OFP, though more on the novely side, would be an F-15E.

Gimme a mudhen with a few sidewinders, a handful of mavericks, and as many cluster bombs as it can handle (somwehere on the order of 20, i think), and I'll give hell to some T80 and AA guns, and blow away a few hinds while I'm at it.

Oops, I went on topic

[RaptorAce 0]

yeah, a strike eagle would really kick

AIM-9's CBU-87's and AIM-120's

all on one aircraft!

[The_Captain 0]

I was a HUGE fan of F-15 Strike Eagle II back in the day. Oh how I would love to take a mudhen to ground level and kick some ass.

Of course, I'd rather the AMRAAMS be replaced with Mk-84's/82's... =)

mmm... pickling on convoys...mmm...

[Ionerion 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RaptorAce @ Sep. 30 2002,20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i don't know about that, i think there have been dogfights in israeli wars and desert storm that used guns to shoot down an aircraft.  BTW any new pics of that F-22, Ionerion?<span id='postcolor'>

I have in game screen shots!    Does anyone have pictures of the inside cockpit of the F-22? I'll need someone to texture the model too, and then a beta version will be released.

[Sadico 1]

I've got a good pic from a magazine, i'll scan it and upload it later.

[jollyreaper 0]

Arguing individual planes is pointless. In a wartime situation air forces do not fight in a vacuum, pilots do not engage each other in chivalrous single combat.

When you are talking about a war you are talking about a military as a whole, the weapons just being the pointy tip of a spear with a very, very big shaft.

Which was the better fighter, P-51 or ME-262? Doesn't matter, the US had more fighters and pilots and the luxury to train them up right before going into combat. Which is the better tank, Sherman or Tiger? In this case we know the Sherman was inferior to just about anything the Germans had. Doesn't matter, we had a lot more than the Germans and could grind them down in attrition warfare. The F-86 was the inferior of the MiG-15 and look who had the higher kill ratios.

Even an inferior weapon can be used effectively with superior training and tactics. the Brewster Buffalo was a total joke in the Pacific and the US forces got rid of it as soon as they possibly could. Finland happily took the planes and put a major hurting on the Russians with them.

[RaptorAce 0]

yay, i wanna play with it

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jollyreaper @ Oct. 01 2002,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Arguing individual planes is pointless. In a wartime situation air forces do not fight in a vacuum, pilots do not engage each other in chivalrous single combat.

When you are talking about a war you are talking about a military as a whole, the weapons just being the pointy tip of a spear with a very, very big shaft.

Which was the better fighter, P-51 or ME-262? Doesn't matter, the US had more fighters and pilots and the luxury to train them up right before going into combat. Which is the better tank, Sherman or Tiger? In this case we know the Sherman was inferior to just about anything the Germans had. Doesn't matter, we had a lot more than the Germans and could grind them down in attrition warfare. The F-86 was the inferior of the MiG-15 and look who had the higher kill ratios.

Even an inferior weapon can be used effectively with superior training and tactics. the Brewster Buffalo was a total joke in the Pacific and the US forces got rid of it as soon as they possibly could. Finland happily took the planes and put a major hurting on the Russians with them.<span id='postcolor'>

That's a very good point. Plus there are supporting forces that make a huge difference. For example the electronic warfare aircraft and wild weasel aircraft make a HUGE difference in disabling both ground and air AA defenses as well as ground based radars that help to direct aircraft and missles towards their targets.

Plus like you said...numbers matter. The Iraqi airforce faired poorly partly because they had poor training but also because they were badly out numbered. That said, they had state of the art Mig-29's and while American pilots were impressed by their turning capability of the Mig-29, they were not impressed with the tactics used by the Iraq pilots (including one poor bastard who just flew into the ground) and they had no trouble shooting them down.

An old Mig-21 could kill the most modern fighter aircraft if it has some decent IR guided missiles (and cannon) and if the modern fighters are outnumbered by the Mig-21's. While they are maneuvering in to take out one Mig-21, another one can come in from a different angle and nail him. The advantage of most modern fighters, as someone else stated, is in the state of the art radar, targeting, and weapons system not to mention their internal ECM systems and countermeasures.

This can allow for distant kills with no need to get into a dogfight. Aircraft like the Mig-25 and the more capable Mig-31 Foxhound were designed with this purpose. There was indeed a report of a F-18 getting shot down by a Mig-31. Actually I read that in an article in Reader's Digest. I don't know how accurate it was but the info they put forth made it seem very plausible that indeed that's what shot him down. I think the Mig-31's radar signature had been detected and that it had been tracked on radar in the area. Something like that although I can't remember for sure the circumstances.

At any rate, the Mig-31 Foxhound has still one of the most powerful radars ever mounted on a jet fighter as it's capable of "burning" through many types of ECM jamming and usually carries some fairly high quality AA missles. It also has the speed to outrun most Western fighter aircraft.

Overall it's quite a beautiful and capable fighter aircraft that is still in production.

If it wasn't so fast, I'd love to see it in OFP...actually....the newest version also has ground attack capability, so maybe it would be a cool idea to have this fighter in OFP.

More info on it can be found at:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-31.htm

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[RaptorAce 0]

Ionerian, do u need anymore pics of the cockpit?

[Ionerion 0]

Yeah I still do need some, one thats not looking from an angle.

[RaptorAce 0]

how about these?

Cockpit view

The first one's a .gif image i cant post it

[RaptorAce 0]

bump

This still being made?