Weapon help

[Demagor 0]

I'm currently reading a book right now, with a cast of USMC Recon members.

One of them is described as using a "heavy-barreled, sniper select M16".  I know my weapons pretty well, more than the average bear you could say, but I confess that I don't know this one.  Now, I'm familiar with the term "heavy-barreled", but would someone mind giving me some more detailed info/stats/history on exactly what the terms "heavy barreled" and "sniper-select" (one that I have not heard) mean?

Thanks!

[ran 0]

this gun has an heavy barrel (it's a .308 tho)

in short :

the heavy barrels are longer and heavier , they give you a longer range , greater accuracy , and better firing platform (heavier = more stability)

(note that the gains are not spectacular and i personnaly thing that those barrels are a waste of space and cost a lot ...... )

[Demagor 0]

That helps a lot, ran, thank you.

How about the term "sniper select", what's that mean?

[Mister Frag 0]

Sniper-select just means that they hand-picked weapons that have demonstrated above-average accuracy during firing tests.

As far as heavy barrels are concerned, the M16 series of weapons has been available with different outer diameter barrels for a long time. Some carbines have very skinny (.625" outer diameter) barrels to save weight, but they can bend, and don't stand up to heat buildup of full-auto fire very well.

Heavy barrels are stiffer, and due to the increased mass and surface area, tolerate heat better. Heat produces warping, which shifts the point of impact, which is bad for a precision rifle. Heavy barrels are also more steady.

At the extreme end are bull barrels, usually with an outer diameter of 1" or more -- they take the heavy barrel concept to the extreme. I have a rifle with a 26" long 1.2" outer diameter Black Teflon barrel, and will post a picture of it when I get home.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 17 2002,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Heavy barrels are stiffer, and due to the increased mass and surface area, tolerate heat better. Heat produces warping, which shifts the point of impact, which is bad for a precision rifle. Heavy barrels are also more steady.<span id='postcolor'>

yeah forgot about that .......

in fact i don't know a lot about gun , all i know if from the armourers i met during my military and police career and i've a bad memory

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 17 2002,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(note that the gains are not spectacular and i personnaly thing that those barrels are a waste of space and cost a lot ...... )<span id='postcolor'>

It all depends on what your definition of spectacular is, and benchrest shooters would probably disagree -- heavy barrels dominate in this sport.

A reduction in group size from 1/2" to 1/4" only means 1/4" of difference, but this still cuts the group size in half. Expressed as a percentage, that would still be a huge improvement.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 17 2002,21:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 17 2002,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(note that the gains are not spectacular and i personnaly thing that those barrels are a waste of space and cost a lot ...... )<span id='postcolor'>

It all depends on what your definition of spectacular is, and benchrest shooters would probably disagree -- heavy barrels dominate in this sport.

A reduction in group size from 1/2" to 1/4" only means 1/4" of difference, but this still cuts the group size in half. Expressed as a percentage, that would still be a huge improvement.<span id='postcolor'>

sure .... but usually when i'm talking i'm not talking about port shooting ....

form what i've seen and experienced myself , the heavy barrels are  just 1 more gadget

they don't have any use on a battlefield since most of the sniper rifles are already fitted with good barrels and we don't use upgraded assault or sporting rifles (though it can happen with the interventions units such as swat , GIPN etc etc ...)

those rifles with boosted abilities are just a caprice of those shooters in my mind ..... anyway i'm engineer originally and i don't know shit about firearms

-edit- by spectacular , i mean at 700 meters with a little bit of wind on a moving target

i wanna say one more thing : 75% of the shot depends only of the shooter (his luck and his skills) , the rest is the weather , the rifle and the ammo

i met a guy in bosnia that could kill you a moving deer (or something like that , a roe-deer i think) with a basic famas 400 meters far from him , if i remember correctly , the guy was a VAB crewman , he told me that he was a great hunter and invited me to come on his private hunt territory once we would be back ...... and , i never had the occasion to meet him again , he has participated to almost every opex's and never had time for the hunt he promised heheheh

[Mister Frag 0]

I think the problem is really with the definition of "heavy barrel".

For instance, the M4's barrel is considered a heavy barrel, when in reality it is simply an appropriately-sized barrel. It is strong enough to withstand battlefield abuse and keep it from bending when someone bangs the rifle around or falls on it, and it can handle occasional full-auto fire.

A barrel heavier than that, such as a bull barrel that might be found on a sniper rifle, really has no use on an infantry rifle.

[Mister Frag 0]

Here is a comparison of the barrel diameter of a M4-style heavy barrel and a bull barrel.

The top picture is a front view of the 1.2" outer diameter bull barrel, while the bottom picture shows the bull barrel and M4-style heavy barrel (albeit with AK-74 muzzle brake) side-by-side.

As mentioned earlier, the M4 barrel is already considered a heavy barrel, and thicker than the one found on the original M16A1 and even some current carbines. The bull barrel is on a rifle that shoots dime-sized 5-shoot groups at 100 meters.

[168GRN HPBT 0]

i wish i could have one :-((

[Major Fubar 0]

Dunno if this is anything like what you're talking about, but this pic is too damn sexy to waste:

This is a Colt LMG upper on a Bushmaster lower with extra long flash hider, PSG1 style pistol grip, 100 rnd. Beta C-mag, Gen 2 ANPVS4 starlight scope, S.K. dual wavelength laser sighting system. With a barrel 1 inch thick, this gun is very accurate

[m79 0]

are they using those "Heavy barrel" M16's in afganstan at the moment.

I am trying to find a gun that I saw a pic of in "SOF" mag. It looks like an M16

it is similar to this gun(if not the same thing)

http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/71131p2.html

[Grey Fox 0]

I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope for what kind of firearm? Pistol? Shotgun? Rifle?

[ralphwiggum 6]

do you even hae a gun Grey Fox? if you want to point red dots, you can get those laser pointers at Kmart    

anyway, Mister Frag, is this legal in California?

http://www.mechtechsys.com

it looks like a conversion tool from a pistol to a carbine.

[Mister Frag 0]

Yes, that conversion is legal. Silly, but legal.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 19 2002,03:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?<span id='postcolor'>

For $100 I'll get a red sharpie and make a 'custom' red dot scope just for you

[Grey Fox 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 18 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope for what kind of firearm? Pistol? Shotgun? Rifle?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope that would work for my Remington Model597 .22 LR. I kinda got tired of my BSA 4x32. I'll replace it with a Remington 700 next year when I get the cash.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll replace it with a Remington 700 next year when I get the cash. <span id='postcolor'>

Buy a Savage and save yourself $200 bucks.

Savage Arms Co.

Mr. Frag, what brand of scope is that on top of your AR-15?

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 18 2002,193)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope for what kind of firearm? Pistol? Shotgun? Rifle?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope that would work for my Remington Model597 .22 LR. I kinda got tired of my BSA 4x32. I'll replace it with a Remington 700 next year when I get the cash.<span id='postcolor'>

To tell you the truth, I'd keep the BSA while you save up the cash for the 700.

When you get the new rifle, put something other than a red dot on it, you'd be wasting the rifle's potential. Red dots are nice for fast target acquisition where speed is paramount, but they don't have fine-enough reticules for precision work.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Sep. 18 2002,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mr. Frag, what brand of scope is that on top of your AR-15?<span id='postcolor'>

It's a 8-40x56 scope from Tasco Custom Shop.

[Grey Fox 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 18 2002,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 18 2002,19<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a question too. Its not exactly on topic but has to do with guns still. Anyone know what company I should look at for a red dot scope?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope for what kind of firearm? Pistol? Shotgun? Rifle?<span id='postcolor'>

A red dot scope that would work for my Remington Model597 .22 LR. I kinda got tired of my BSA 4x32. I'll replace it with a Remington 700 next year when I get the cash.<span id='postcolor'>

To tell you the truth, I'd keep the BSA while you save up the cash for the 700.

When you get the new rifle, put something other than a red dot on it, you'd be wasting the rifle's potential. Red dots are nice for fast target acquisition where speed is paramount, but they don't have fine-enough reticules for precision work.<span id='postcolor'>

I was going to just keep the red dot on the 597 cause its semi-auto. The 700 I'm thinking of a 10x scope but have absolutly no idea what else. Although I still need info for both items.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grey Fox @ Sep. 18 2002,20:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was going to just keep the red dot on the 597 cause its semi-auto. The 700 I'm thinking of a 10x scope but have absolutly no idea what else. Although I still need info for both items.<span id='postcolor'>

I still don't think that a red dot scope would do you much good with the .22 unless you are going to put a premium on speed over accuracy. Keep in mind that most red dot scopes have little or no magnification, so they don't lend themselves to distance shooting.

Arguably the finest red dot scopes are made by Aimpoint, but their scopes can cost you as much as a whole new rifle.

Other nice high-end scopes are made by Trijicon (not really red dot scopes, they use Tritium inserts for illumination) and Leopold. Again, the price can exceed that of the rifle you mount them on.

However, there are lots of inexpensive red dot scopes for around US$50 to US$80 that are quite decent, including several by BSA. If you spend $50 and discover that it isn't what you expected, you won't feel terribly bad even if you decide to keep the scope.

For the 700, get a variable-magnification scope by Leopold, Bausch & Lomb, Nikon, Redfield, or Tasco; another option would be a Cabelas private-branded scopes. All of these are reasonably priced and generally have excellent optics.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For the 700, get a variable-magnification scope by Leopold, Bausch & Lomb, Nikon, Redfield, or Tasco; another option would be a Cabelas private-branded scopes. All of these are reasonably priced and generally have excellent optics<span id='postcolor'>

Or, if you had a few thousand bucks, you could get a USO scope.

It all depends on preference I guess, I am looking for a fixed 10x scope, they just seem more relaible and easier to use. I have asked on a bunch of precision shooting sites and I get mixed responses: First I hear Leupold is good, then some BSA makes are better, Tasco is garbage, USO is excellent if you have the $$$ and so on. I honestly have no idea of what to get.

Tyler

[Mister Frag 0]

I've met a guy at a tactical firearms training course who worked for U.S. Optics, and had a number of interesting discussions with him over the duration of the course. I've also used one U.S. Optics scope at a range, and the brightness and clarity of that scope was unbelieable.

I'd like to get a U.S Optics scope some day, or possibly a Nightforce -- many people say they are just as good as U.S. Optics, but cheaper.