[Concern] People keep telling me to search the forum, but I find no answers..

[DrHat 10]

Hi there!

I made this thread on reddit

I have said something like this before, so why am I saying it again? Well because every time I do, people keep giving me a dismissive, annoyed and snarky response of "most of the answers are on the forum, just bother to search for them"...the point is I did, several times..over months of time..and I have not had a single question answered (maybe I suck at forum-fu, but there it is). I've had speculations..oh yes, many speculations, many thoughts and unpleasant remarks from people who, for some reason, think I am being unreasonable..:j:

I don't think I am being unreasonable, so here I am again - wishing to genuinely get a useful response that either shows me the actual answers, or have someone actually answer me, because "search the forum" isn't an answer I can use, having found no answers.

Please help me understand :-/

Please?

[cpl_hicks 2]

If I understand this thread correctly being that there are issues with A3, the answer is BI is the only developer attempting this type of product and as a result of such an ambitious undertaking there are going to inevitably be bugs and flaws.

If they waited until it was polished and perfect until releasing it would never get released.

Show me another sim/game released that does everything this does or is even close and I would already be playing it myself.

So unless you got a better idea I suggest closing thread...

[vegeta897 13]

If I understand this thread correctly being that there are issues with A3, the answer is BI is the only developer attempting this type of product and as a result of such an ambitious undertaking there are going to inevitably be bugs and flaws.

If they waited until it was polished and perfect until releasing it would never get released.

This pretty much nails it.

BIS kind of has to advertise their game in a way that hides all these flaws you point out, or else they would never sell anything, and we'd end up with an even worse game or no game at all.

The answers you're really looking for, are not to be found. Either have faith in BIS that they'll continue making games they have passion for making, do your part in the feedback tracker, or move on to another game if you can't enjoy it for what it is. Arma, to me, has always been about enjoying what there is, and what mods can bring to it. Any improvements BIS makes (which they are, all the time) are bonuses to me.

[meatshield 13]

he does kinda have a point though, even to completely different questions. I know it gets tiring answering the same questions all the time, but i do wonder if the people who say "do a search!", (which can be useful .. but only to a point) have actually bothered themselves most the time. The answer your looking for is either buried in a single post on page 43 out of 85 of some totally irrelevant thread which has gone off tack from its first post, or in some thread called "need help with script" .. which theres loads of, and non of them might have anything to do with your error. Of course the worst thing is .. when you dont know what the problem is .. how can you search?? specialy as if you dont get the right keywords you wont get a thing.

Another thing as i'm at it .. is the "its on the wiki!" .. ok .. fine .. but where abouts? if i'm looking for a way to remove weapons from a unit, how do i know i need the removeAllWeapons scripting command on the huge list of scripting commands that have no description until you click them? Am i supposed to go through all of them from A-Z one at a time wasting hours? Easy example i know, but you get the idea.

[katipo66 94]

Whats this thread about? Searching? I started reading from your link and quickly closed it before I caught something!

[DrHat 10]

Whats this thread about? Searching? I started reading from your link and quickly closed it before I caught something!

Well aren't you a snarky fellow...the thread is about nothing that would interest you I guess. Enjoy your popcorn :)

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

If I understand this thread correctly being that there are issues with A3, the answer is BI is the only developer attempting this type of product and as a result of such an ambitious undertaking there are going to inevitably be bugs and flaws.

If they waited until it was polished and perfect until releasing it would never get released.

Show me another sim/game released that does everything this does or is even close and I would already be playing it myself.

So unless you got a better idea I suggest closing thread...

So because they are the only ones making this sort of game, that answers my concerns? ..I'm sorry, I might be an idiot of some sort (very possible), but at least on the face of it that seems like a non sequitur ..Unless you are suggesting that everyone out there who do similar products, also share source code freely and frequently (not just freely). Everyone has to face the difficulties of developing a product - which is why some developers choose to buy third-party tools like Havok physics etc, in order to by-pass a lot of problems. That choice, whether you make it or not, is not a deal breaker..it doesn't magically make things extra hard, just for you.

I will grant you that Bohemia Interactive have, mostly, done a fantastic job and I'm very sure they are working very hard..no question...but yours is not an answer. It still isn't an answer, if you start counting features (I mean we can do that if you like..but I don't see the point)

---------- Post added at 16:44 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ----------

he does kinda have a point though, even to completely different questions. I know it gets tiring answering the same questions all the time, but i do wonder if the people who say "do a search!", (which can be useful .. but only to a point) have actually bothered themselves most the time. The answer your looking for is either buried in a single post on page 43 out of 85 of some totally irrelevant thread which has gone off tack from its first post, or in some thread called "need help with script" .. which theres loads of, and non of them might have anything to do with your error. Of course the worst thing is .. when you dont know what the problem is .. how can you search?? specialy as if you dont get the right keywords you wont get a thing.

Another thing as i'm at it .. is the "its on the wiki!" .. ok .. fine .. but where abouts? if i'm looking for a way to remove weapons from a unit, how do i know i need the removeAllWeapons scripting command on the huge list of scripting commands that have no description until you click them? Am i supposed to go through all of them from A-Z one at a time wasting hours? Easy example i know, but you get the idea.

Exactly my point! Glad someone understood what I meant to convey ^_^

[vegeta897 13]

I guess you ignored the main point of my post, so I'll say it again. You are not going to find the answers you're looking for. You acknowledge that BIS is trying their hardest and doing a great job all things considered, yet the main theme of all of your questions are "why aren't they doing better?". Especially questions like "Why is the CPU/GPU utilization so poorly optimized?" What kind of answer do you expect from that, honestly? Optimization is a concern for any game by any developer. If it's poor in Arma, then it's poor. If you think the answer is "because BIS doesn't care much about it" then you're wrong. You may as well be asking "why isn't there less pollution?" or "why are so many children starving?". Attempting to answer these questions does not get us anywhere. We gain nothing. The reasons aren't important, the result is. You can help BIS achieve better results by giving feedback, or simply continuing to buy BIS's products to support them. Pointing out the game's flaws has its place (and you should continue doing it in the right channels) but putting these issues in the form of questions and expecting meaningful answers will get you nowhere.

[chrisb 196]

OP;

The simple answer is you, along with many others me included, were spoilt over the previous years, especially with A2CO. That was, and remains, the ultimate game mix of this series (imo), A3 can't better it, only cosmetically, it certainly can't match its immersion, content or feel.

Its a case of you get lost in the game that captivates you the most. For me, that is playing A2CO with KAI now (in this genre), don't play A3 at all.

:)

[DrHat 10]

I guess you ignored the main point of my post, so I'll say it again. You are not going to find the answers you're looking for. You acknowledge that BIS is trying their hardest and doing a great job all things considered, yet the main theme of all of your questions are "why aren't they doing better?". Especially questions like "Why is the CPU/GPU utilization so poorly optimized?" What kind of answer do you expect from that, honestly? Optimization is a concern for any game by any developer. If it's poor in Arma, then it's poor. If you think the answer is "because BIS doesn't care much about it" then you're wrong. You may as well be asking "why isn't there less pollution?" or "why are so many children starving?". Attempting to answer these questions does not get us anywhere. We gain nothing. The reasons aren't important, the result is. You can help BIS achieve better results by giving feedback, or simply continuing to buy BIS's products to support them. Pointing out the game's flaws has its place (and you should continue doing it in the right channels) but putting these issues in the form of questions and expecting meaningful answers will get you nowhere.

I ignored you because, like others here, you seem to have an unfriendly and aggressive disposition about you, a disposition that won't lead to anything useful. Let me show you what I mean:

I acknowledge that BIS is doing a good job on some parts of the game, yes..and I'm *guessing* (without knowing) that they are doing the best they can, with what they have...but I don't know that for sure. I can only try to avoid assuming something negative, which is why I bring up the concern, as it doesn't immediately make any sense to me and I can't deduce a hypothetical reason that seems satisfying enough, thus I come here to ask questions.

What kind of answer do I honestly expect? An honest one...what more could I hope for? If you think I'm some sort of outrage-seeking and entitlement-induced teenager, you couldn't be more wrong. I am an honest customer, seeking honest answers and I sort of only get the feeling like there is resentment coming my way, for that reason, from people like you.

This is sort of backed up by your presumption that what I'm likely looking for is, as you exemplified, "because BIS doesn't care much about it" and the rest of those absurd examples you brought up, so frankly, get off my back.

"putting these issues in the form of questions and expecting meaningful answers will get you nowhere." - Why not? What on earth happened to the fundamentals of inquiry that allows everyone to ask questions and get meaningful answers? Who decided this is no longer valid? You? I really do not understand this passive-aggressive resentment towards honest and unassuming inquiry - in fact I find it rather unpleasant because I don't think I deserve that sort of treatment.

Do you understand now?

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

OP;

The simple answer is you, along with many others me included, were spoilt over the previous years, especially with A2CO. That was, and remains, the ultimate game mix of this series (imo), A3 can't better it, only cosmetically, it certainly can't match its immersion, content or feel.

Its a case of you get lost in the game that captivates you the most. For me, that is playing A2CO with KAI now (in this genre), don't play A3 at all.

:)

On some points, like the environment, missions and "feel" of the game I suppose I would have to agree..though none of those are the source of my concerns. I acknowledge that there is a biased expectation to "get something equal or better" in terms of the next installment of Arma, but that also isn't the source of my concerns. I fully understand that, like movies, you can't know in advance if your idea is going to be an improvement or match that of previous installments of a series.

The source of my concern, as pointed out in my Reddit thread, are regarding things that are ...for lack of better term to explain it ..."basic" things that, while not necessarily present at launch, would have been addressed -by now-...Which I don't think is an unfair point of view, especially not if there are circumstances I am unaware of..hence why I ask questions.

While some of you have certainly been honest and friendly, it is a little tiresome to be met by people who attack you the second you dare to ask a question and attributing all sorts of nasty motives to your inquiry about why you are *really* asking those questions..no, I mean the questions in the way I have phrased them and I don't have a dramatic expectation to the outcome..just honesty, that's all.

Nevertheless, thank you for your input :)

[warlord554 2065]

Your reddit thread makes valid points indeed, many of which have been brought up numerously. However in the end we are customers of the same product too, and unless you hear it from the DEVs themselves, all we can do is speculate alongside you. Do we have exact answers to the many questions we probably all have, negative. You may try the Development Blog and Reveals thread, alot of valid info regarding the games state. But in the end you ask us questions that we cannot answer correctly. Probably why ppl have told you to search, they don't want to admit they may share the same concerns. ;)

In the end the pros still outweigh the cons for me personally, although I create alot of my own content also. But im just playing with the cards that were dealt to me

Best Regards,

WL

[vegeta897 13]

I ignored you because, like others here, you seem to have an unfriendly and aggressive disposition about you, a disposition that won't lead to anything useful. Let me show you what I mean:

I acknowledge that BIS is doing a good job on some parts of the game, yes..and I'm *guessing* (without knowing) that they are doing the best they can, with what they have...but I don't know that for sure. I can only try to avoid assuming something negative, which is why I bring up the concern, as it doesn't immediately make any sense to me and I can't deduce a hypothetical reason that seems satisfying enough, thus I come here to ask questions.

What kind of answer do I honestly expect? An honest one...what more could I hope for? If you think I'm some sort of outrage-seeking and entitlement-induced teenager, you couldn't be more wrong. I am an honest customer, seeking honest answers and I sort of only get the feeling like there is resentment coming my way, for that reason, from people like you.

This is sort of backed up by your presumption that what I'm likely looking for is, as you exemplified, "because BIS doesn't care much about it" and the rest of those absurd examples you brought up, so frankly, get off my back.

"putting these issues in the form of questions and expecting meaningful answers will get you nowhere." - Why not? What on earth happened to the fundamentals of inquiry that allows everyone to ask questions and get meaningful answers? Who decided this is no longer valid? You? I really do not understand this passive-aggressive resentment towards honest and unassuming inquiry - in fact I find it rather unpleasant because I don't think I deserve that sort of treatment.

I don't see anything unfriendly or aggressive about my responses. Perhaps because it's not what you want to hear? I don't know, but you seem to be lumping me into a group of people that you've encountered in the past that I do not feel I'm a part of.

I think you're missing the meaning of my "what answer do you expect" point. By no means was I discouraging the very act of asking questions. It's the kind of questions you are asking that don't really have a meaningful answer. I asked you what kind of answer you expected because I was trying to demonstrate the fact that there really is no answer to a question like "why isn't the game more optimized". By meaningful answer, I mean one that isn't just "because it's difficult, because we don't have the resources, etc". By the way, that essentially is the answer to that question. If it wasn't difficult or time-consuming, it would be done. Tell me where you will get if BIS tells you the game isn't as optimized as you'd like because optimization in a game like Arma is complicated and resource-intensive. This has nothing to do with honesty. Nobody, including you I hope, has brought BIS's honesty into question.

An example of a question with a meaningful answer is one like "why is there a button in the map that magically directs your view toward your rough location, without a GPS?" The answer would have substance because apparently somebody at BIS made a design decision to include this function, and they would be able to explain their reasoning. Nobody decided to make Arma poorly optimized. There are no explanations beyond the obvious. That is the point I was making to you, and if you find my manner hostile (I really don't see how) then I apologize.

[DrHat 10]

I don't see anything unfriendly or aggressive about my responses. Perhaps because it's not what you want to hear? I don't know, but you seem to be lumping me into a group of people that you've encountered in the past that I do not feel I'm a part of.

I think you're missing the meaning of my "what answer do you expect" point. By no means was I discouraging the very act of asking questions. It's the kind of questions you are asking that don't really have a meaningful answer. I asked you what kind of answer you expected because I was trying to demonstrate the fact that there really is no answer to a question like "why isn't the game more optimized". By meaningful answer, I mean one that isn't just "because it's difficult, because we don't have the resources, etc". By the way, that essentially is the answer to that question. If it wasn't difficult or time-consuming, it would be done. Tell me where you will get if BIS tells you the game isn't as optimized as you'd like because optimization in a game like Arma is complicated and resource-intensive. This has nothing to do with honesty. Nobody, including you I hope, has brought BIS's honesty into question.

An example of a question with a meaningful answer is one like "why is there a button in the map that magically directs your view toward your rough location, without a GPS?" The answer would have substance because apparently somebody at BIS made a design decision to include this function, and they would be able to explain their reasoning. Nobody decided to make Arma poorly optimized. There are no explanations beyond the obvious. That is the point I was making to you, and if you find my manner hostile (I really don't see how) then I apologize.

What you said in your last post, specifically says word for word, what you meant to convey..I even quoted these things. To now say that I'm missing the meaning and you aren't being hostile, it's..well I don't know what to do with that. What do you want me to do with it? Everyone can say "thats not what I meant" ..I'm not a mind reader, but it is what you said though, so I can only work with that.

Why can't I get a meaningful answer that is more than "Because it's difficult" ? Who makes these decisions about what sort of answer is possible or not? Because I think that is just a defeatist attitude and a lack of trying - maybe I won't get a fulfilling answer, but that is always the case with anything we do in life..that is a risk you take.

Where will an answer from BIS get me? It will get me from "ignorant and confused" -> "informed and understanding". That's it...You were the one who asked me what sort of answer I wanted, as if I had a predetermined expectation in mind, which I didn't..which is precisely what I mean by a negative disposition on your part that I don't like - that and your examples of what sort of answers I would expect. Instead, I decided to show my undemanding and unassuming nature, by cheekily saying "an honest answer" with no regard to the actual answer..ie. I'm open to anything, as long as its the truth, which is what I assume I will get if I do get an answer....and yet you argue about that too.

I am not interested in this exchange any longer, as it has gone past what I wanted it to..I just want answers. If I get them, that'll be great and I'll be happier for being informed..if I don't, well too bad then.