How does bis expect us to....

[weedmasta 0]

Yes i've read FAQ and found out that BIS is not planning on updating MP code for old OFP players. BIS that's BS. You are the first gaming company i've seen that forces the players to buy their addon. We've all seen how Red Hammer turned out (yes i actually bought it) and how it was nothing special at all. How does BIS expect us to buy Resistance without even assuring us of a proper multiplayer netcode? I've been waiting for a new netcode since the original OFP came out and it seems to me now that BIS is more after the money rather than a better gaming experience for their customers as time passes. Really disappointed with CM for doing this and for BIS ;)allowing it  

[weedmasta 0]

And after i read this forum, seeing how much problems Resistance has and how people even with high specs are having trouble running it...I won't be giving in to your capitalistic scheme (low quality, only after our cash)!

[Chris Death 0]

Very soon, you'll find yourself playing single player missions.

I already bought OFP-Resistance.

The new netcode is indeed an improvement.

BIS is working for money?? - Yes they do their jobs,

to earn money. Would you start a carrer as a BIS

programmer, without getting money for the time, you

spend at the office??

BIS gave us many upgrades (and if it would have been

only 1, it would be ok).

BIS upgraded the game to new standards (graphic improvement)

btw - i own two PC's, and i have to buy a second edition

of OFP-resistance, to be able to get both pc's playable

for new OFP-R. However, i have no problem with that,

because allowing ppl to upgrade the old OFP with only

one CD would enable to let a guy buy one CD, and let

it move around the world to upgrade all other OFP's.

My suggestion to you is: if you like OFP, and you like

to play multiplayer, move out and buy it.

If you don't like the game, and don't like playing

with other's around the world, keep your old OFP version.

If you like OFP, but can't efford the money to buy OFP-r,

wait a while and it will get cheaper for sure.

Just another example:

There's a pentium 3 series, and there's a pentium 4 series.

How the hell, could they say, if you want the better pc,

you have to buy it?

I hope you got the point here, otherwise:

~S~ CD

[weedmasta 0]

My system specs are ridiculously low and i am even having trouble playing old OFP itself. My point is not the Single Player cause Single Player never lasts (except for mission editor of course). My point was release the new netcode for old OFP owners. Keep the darned graphical enhancement, the new island, the new maps and heck even keep the new weapons for all i care but please give us old OFP players the new netcode. Please do us the favor i think we deserve it after waiting for so long and having to play with that crappy netcode

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

Umm actually BIS gave us fully working beta of the new netcode (v1.60) and i'm sure there will be an update for old OFP after Resistance is released in North America. And besides it's Codemasters who decide about selling etc.

[Placebo 28]

So don't buy it then, who's forcing you? Nobody.

I bought it, and I'm more than happy, runs fine for me, no problems, and it runs fine for most other people I know, yes there are some reports of problems, same as there were for the original Opf, strangely that ran fine for me with no problems as well

Resistance has been out for 4 days, nobody knows what Bis may or may not be planning, if you know anything about Bis then you'll know they pretty much announce nothing, and what they do announce can change from day to day. So you're making a very big assumption very quickly. Also the assumption that you blame Bis for everything and don't blame CM, if you know anything about software releases then you'll know that it's the publishers that force games to be out before they're ready, they're also the ones who have the final word about what patches may or may not be released. If Opf isn't patched to match Opf:R then I'll believe the decision was down to CM until I hear otherwise.

I tried to post this early the "slow as pig shitâ„¢" forums didn't want me to so I went for a bath, to that end some of the things I've said are now duplicates, but hey I smell nice

Also as for whinging about the netcode, cable host, 3 or 4 close friends on dialup, well designed coop mission, best MP experience ever, and that was with 1.00 and it got better ever since.

Want to play 30 person DM or CTF or something? Go play CS

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ July 02 2002,22:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So don't buy it then, who's forcing you? Nobody.

I bought it, and I'm more than happy, runs fine for me, no problems, and it runs fine for most other people I know, yes there are some reports of problems, same as there were for the original Opf, strangely that ran fine for me with no problems as well

Resistance has been out for 4 days, nobody knows what Bis may or may not be planning, if you know anything about Bis then you'll know they pretty much announce nothing, and what they do announce can change from day to day. So you're making a very big assumption very quickly. Also the assumption that you blame Bis for everything and don't blame CM, if you know anything about software releases then you'll know that it's the publishers that force games to be out before they're ready, they're also the ones who have the final word about what patches may or may not be released. If Opf isn't patched to match Opf:R then I'll believe the decision was down to CM until I hear otherwise.

I tried to post this early the "slow as pig shitâ„¢" forums didn't want me to so I went for a bath, to that end some of the things I've said are now duplicates, but hey I smell nice

Also as for whinging about the netcode, cable host, 3 or 4 close friends on dialup, well designed coop mission, best MP experience ever, and that was with 1.00 and it got better ever since.

Want to play 30 person DM or CTF or something? Go play CS  <span id='postcolor'>

Well said.

[BAM 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 02 2002,17:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And after i read this forum, seeing how much problems Resistance has and how people even with high specs are having trouble running it...I won't be giving in to your capitalistic scheme (low quality, only after our cash)!<span id='postcolor'>

I am very surprised to hear that high-end systems are having problems running this game, on my measly pIII 1gig and ancient Voodoo3 3000 with 2 year old drivers, OFP ran nicely for me (Glide 800x600x16, all shadows/cloudets enabled, default framerate/visual quality settings).

Whats more, Resistance is definetly optimised over the previous version as it runs even BETTER with the same settings. With this optimisation I have been able to set the drawdistance up to 1500 and the visual quality up to 8.20 and it still runs about as fast as the original OFP! Its not silk smooth or anything, but it is definetly solid and consistent.

This performance is more than I could have hoped for, especially since the voodoo only has 16Mb video ram! The only graphical setting I had to turn down was the terrain detail as turning it up made the framerate nosedive sharply.

Theres definetly less urgency for me to upgrade to a GF4 now.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BAM @ July 03 2002,03:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Theres definetly less urgency for me to upgrade to a GF4 now.<span id='postcolor'>

Cmon, do it, you know you want to. Come over to the dark side...

[zverushka 0]

Tex, I'm joining it, as soon as I get a paycheck, which will come around friday.

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

I heard somewhere that G4 is just an updated version of the G3 (or atleast the cheaper versions are).

P.S I'll get Resistance today

[weedmasta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you know anything about Bis then you'll know they pretty much announce nothing, and what they do announce can change from day to day. So you're making a very big assumption very quickly.<span id='postcolor'>

If i had asked if BIS/CM is going to release an update i would have been called a noob and an idiot and would have been told to go and read the FAQ that is posted here somewhere. (i know this cause i saw a post with the above example) As for assumptions, i read it on the FAQ that BIS/CM is not planning to release an update, that's why i am here complaining i am not assuming anything.

As for the netcode, it is crappy no matter how many people play. Servers crash at least once a day or make your game crash, you usually have to wait a long time in the so called lobby to get to play, when there is no admin it takes ages before people start to vote, many times servers don't start the map although everyone is green and ready, other times you can't vote for a server admin and the choke is horrible sometimes even with good ping.

Not everyone plays coop with just a few friends and has a cable to host a game. I like coop missions but I think it's more of a challenge to play against real people instead of the predictable AI.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also the assumption that you blame Bis for everything and don't blame CM, if you know anything about software releases then you'll know that it's the publishers that force games to be out before they're ready, they're also the ones who have the final word about what patches may or may not be released.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe i didnt make myself clear enough (and i know about software releases), I was blaming both. I know the game publishers have the last say but they don't decide totally independent from the game creators. So in the end it's usually both their fault, if not just the publisher.

[weedmasta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BIS is working for money?? - Yes they do their jobs,

to earn money. Would you start a carrer as a BIS

programmer, without getting money for the time, you

spend at the office??

<span id='postcolor'>

There is a difference in getting payed & doing your job good and getting paid & doing it crappy...big difference and sadly most of the gaming industry goes for the 2nd way.

Buying games these days is like buying a brand new car but with parts missing (whether vital or not)

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 03 2002,08:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe i didnt make myself clear enough (and i know about software releases), I was blaming both. I know the game publishers have the last say but they don't decide totally independent from the game creators. So in the end it's usually both their fault, if not just the publisher.

<span id='postcolor'>

unfortunately, OFP is BIS's first major contract, and that means they don't have much of control. perhaps on OFP2 they might have more control, but that's it.

overhaul of netcode is not something that is easy. BIS practically had to start from scratch in terms of using Socket-oriented netcode. And I think that is 40% of cost of OFPR, while 45% of cost is for the graphical improvement, and the rest for new addons.

if OFP's new netcode is just given out as a free patch, then there will be ppl who will be complaing that 30dollars is too much for just a new island and graphical improvement.

[weedmasta 0]

I didn't see anyone complain about that when Red Hammer was released... And as for the costs, you really have no idea how much money these people are making...

[ralphwiggum 6]

RedHammer was from CM, not BIS. just a bunch of missions.

second of all, the money that BIS makes from OFP might be huge, but considering cut-throat nature of gaming industry, it's not substantial.

if you suceed, then you get rewarded with massive income. if not, then you are getting little revenue. considering the fact that BIS had to endure 4 years of hardship and refusal from another distributor, I say that there reward is appropriate.

comparing nominally, the income seems to be astronomical, but if you consider the risks that BIS had to take, it's not much.

[weedmasta 0]

As i said before: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Keep the darned graphical enhancement, the new island, the new maps and heck even keep the new weapons for all i care but please give us old OFP players the new netcode. Please do us the favor i think we deserve it after waiting for so long and having to play with that crappy netcode <span id='postcolor'>

Red Hammer had updates with it aswell as new units and a whole new campaign, which were released (except for the campaign) as updates.

The gaming industry is full of risks cause there is a lot of 'competetion', it's part of the business, so it's wrong to underestimate the amount of money they earned just because of the risks they took.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 03 2002,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The gaming industry is full of risks cause there is a lot of 'competetion', it's part of the business, so it's wrong to underestimate the amount of money they earned just because of the risks they took.<span id='postcolor'>

well, it's part of business to limit release of new features to increase revenue in enhanced new update with features.

if you compare life time earning of a layman, and compare with those who take risks, you would understand the system of rewards and risks.

for example, average income of actors is somewhere around 25-30K. but when we see Tom Hanks making 20 million per movie, we think that these guys are overpaid. but there is only one Tom Hanks, and if you trace those million dollar celebs, you'll see that there are millions more who are taking risk of becoming an actor/entertainer and forgoing better steady paying job. so if they suceed, they are rewarded with big money, and if not, not much.

same logic applies here.

BIS made money with OFP, but that, in long term vision and considering risks is not different. should OFP not succeed, BIS would have to still live as cash stricken company. and the chance of that happening is far greater than you can expect.

[weedmasta 0]

Lol you are telling me i don't understand risks and rewards? You are wrong again

And using the movie/actor industry as an example, bad mistake. Many of those actors who are earning millions, do not have a proper education and were working in ordinary low paid jobs before they became 'stars'. And acting in a movie whether a flop or success does pay better than an ordinary job. Imagine you are a taxi driver and someone tells you that they want you to act in a movie. Obviously you'd say yes cause obviously you'd earn more.

And tell me how are actors taking more risks then for example policemen do? A policeman doesn't even earn in a lifetime half the money a major celebrity/actor does for a movie and yet the policemen does take more risks and it's not just about the money or a steady job but his/her life being at stake which is an even bigger risk.

I know there is a lot of risks but as you can see above money doesn't compensate for risk nor the other way. BIS had to take the risk whether they were going to be successful or not. Risk is always there doesnt matter if you get successful or not, earn a lot of money or not and have a steady work or not.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, it's part of business to limit release of new features to increase revenue in enhanced new update with features.<span id='postcolor'>

Once again as said by me: <span id='postcolor'>Please do us the favor i think we deserve it after waiting for so long and having to play with that crappy netcode </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

The game wasn't released with a proper netcode in the first place and i have yet to see a proper update (for the netcode mind you!. Yes it was improved (cause it sucked donkey ass) but not enough (it still sucks donkey ass but not as much as before). Am i the only person playing MP here or what? [sarcasm]

[weedmasta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I heard somewhere that G4 is just an updated version of the G3 (or atleast the cheaper versions are).<span id='postcolor'>

Please stick to the topic

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The game wasn't released with a proper netcode in the first place and i have yet to see a proper update (for the netcode mind you!. Yes it was improved (cause it sucked donkey ass) but not enough (it still sucks donkey ass but not as much as before). Am i the only person playing MP here or what? [sarcasm] <span id='postcolor'>

so why does BIS had to comeout with better netcode in the first place? there's no legal statue that says BIS must present workable netcode in the first place. so they can do away with current code should they wish to. however, they decided to improve it, and put a price tag, and many ppl consider it adequate.

and speaking of risk in entertainment business, there are shit load of ppl who has phDs. Mr. Bean has pHD in electrical engineering, David Duchovny was just one thesis away from phD from Yale(in philosophy), and even *sigh* steven Segal was former military person.

thus, your assumption about entertainment sector occupied with useless slobs is way off. Maybe you are unfamiliar of how much earning that I presented above means. 25-30k can be achieved in a year under minimum wage. look at the word, average. it means that there are shit load of ppl who are not even earning 25-30k.

if your movie flops, you usually get less nargaining power and thus less income. Sylvester Stallone is a good example. in 80s he was popular, but as his movies stared to loose appeal, his income got less frequent. I can't even remember name of his latest movie.

You don't just get a job as a 'star'. you have to work for it. I worked as an extra onetime and for a scene that was about 1 minute long, we had to work around 4 hours. and pay? 50 dollars.(tax later taken off) and what is chance of some cab driver suddenly becoming a 'star'? slim to none.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And tell me how are actors taking more risks then for example policemen do? A policeman doesn't even earn in a lifetime half the money a major celebrity/actor does for a movie and yet the policemen does take more risks and it's not just about the money or a steady job but his/her life being at stake which is an even bigger risk.<span id='postcolor'>

if you look at life-time income of actors and police, police has more stability in terms of income. there job maybe risky, but chance of becoming an officer is less risky then being a super star. this pretty much shows that you didn't understand my point/definition of risk which is more synonimous with word chance. chance of someone becoming next Tom Hanks is less likely than being a police officer.

so for that 20 mil a movie paycheck, a person has to go through acting school and auditions and so forth, which means less time with ordinary income earning activity. so this person is taking risk. he is forgoing easier paycheck over a chance of bigger pay check.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know there is a lot of risks but as you can see above money doesn't compensate for risk nor the other way. BIS had to take the risk whether they were going to be successful or not. Risk is always there doesnt matter if you get successful or not, earn a lot of money or not and have a steady work or not.<span id='postcolor'>

and you are getting way out of point. because BIS took risk with OFP, they need to be rewarded. and they also took chance of implemeting new netcode. so they need to be rewarded. you may think a netcode is an essential, but in reality, it's not.

[whisperFFW06 0]

DO NOT compare RH to Resistance, they have very little in common.

RH is a campaign. Period. The vehicles and patches included on the CD were there for convenience, to avoid downloading by the user, as everything except the campaign was free for download here.

Resistance is a rework of the graphical engine, a rework of the networking engine (a complete reconstruction), a new island, and finally a new campaign (of a much better quality) and some vehicles/weapons.

So plz no comparison between, it doesn't mean anything.

About crappy netcode, just tell me how YOU would have done it, keeping in mind every specificity of OFP.

But, you are right, BIS should release an update for patching netcode of original game to Resistance standard, otherwise there would be a big split of community.....

Where you are wrong is that BIS NEVER stated they wouldn't. Even in Avonlady's FAQ, there no such thing, it is written that they would not release a patch to update OFP to graphical and netcode standard of Resistance (making this would make Resistance to the level of RH), I hope you understand why. So plz wait before going grmlgrmlgrmlgrml .

BTW, I doubt BIS guys are now multimillionaire, the current sells are just payement for 5 years of devel and update on their creation, a game targeting a narrow population (otherwise they would just have done a FPS on huge islands, network oriented, and would have done no work on AI, campaigns, editor, scripting, etc...) and very demanding on post-production.

They should have very substantial benefits (and deserve it), but they did not assured revenues to the end of their lives, far away from that.

It's just a job like many others.

Whis'

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (whisperFFW06 @ July 03 2002,11:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">DO NOT compare RH to Resistance, they have very little in common.

RH is a campaign. Period. The vehicles and patches included on the CD were there for convenience, to avoid downloading by the user, as everything except the campaign was free for download here.

Resistance is a rework of the graphical engine, a rework of the networking engine (a complete reconstruction), a new island, and finally a new campaign (of a much better quality) and some vehicles/weapons.

So plz no comparison between, it doesn't mean anything.

About crappy netcode, just tell me how YOU would have done it, keeping in mind every specificity of OFP.

But, you are right, BIS should release an update for patching netcode of original game to Resistance standard, otherwise there would be a big split of community.....

Where you are wrong is that BIS NEVER stated they wouldn't. Even in Avonlady's FAQ, there no such thing, it is written that they would not release a patch to update OFP to graphical and netcode standard of Resistance (making this would make Resistance to the level of RH), I hope you understand why. So plz wait before going grmlgrmlgrmlgrml .

BTW, I doubt BIS guys are now multimillionaire, the current sells are just payement for 5 years of devel and update on their creation, a game targeting a narrow population (otherwise they would just have done a FPS on huge islands, network oriented, and would have done no work on AI, campaigns, editor, scripting, etc...) and very demanding on post-production.

They should have very substantial benefits (and deserve it), but they did not assured revenues to the end of their lives, far away from that.

It's just a job like many others.<span id='postcolor'>

I couldn't have said it better myself

One thing I would just like to add is that software publishers are the vultures of venture capitalists. I wouldn't be surprised if BIS got less then 5% of the gross sales.

[weedmasta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and you are getting way out of point. because BIS took risk with OFP, they need to be rewarded. and they also took chance of implemeting new netcode. so they need to be rewarded. you may think a netcode is an essential, but in reality, it's not.<span id='postcolor'>

You still don't get my point dude. Of course you have to be rewarded if you do work and take risks. DOH! And BIS would still need to be rewarded even if OFP wasn't successful cause they took so much risk but they wouldn't cause they wouldn't earn enough money or no money at all. GET IT? Still in the dark?

As for multiplayer, you might be one of those people playing SP only and fiddling around mission editor but it doesn't mean everyone else does the same. There are thousands of servers up there and these days one of the main ways to keep an audience focused long on a game is the Multiplayer aspect. There is nothing like playing against real people as i said before. You might be a 56ker who doesn't like MP, that's is not my problem but it's OBVIOUS THAT MP NETCODE IS ESSENTIAL, it's a big important step in a game's life cycle.

Pls lets not get into that actor crap again it's getting too off topic and you are starting to contradict yourself and making no sense (going from risk to chance and dragging it on).

But i would like to indicate this: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">MANY of those actors who are earning millions, do not have a proper education and were working in ordinary low paid jobs before they became 'stars'. <span id='postcolor'>

I said many actors, not most, not all but M-A-N-Y

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">however, they decided to improve it, and put a price tag, and many ppl consider it adequate.

<span id='postcolor'>

Many people may consider it adequate, yes but many others do not (one of them obviously being me).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">About crappy netcode, just tell me how YOU would have done it, keeping in mind every specificity of OFP.<span id='postcolor'>

I never said i would have done it better. And i didnt say that it never improved either. Apperantly the new netcode is good. Why not do it in the first place if they can. You know why cause we are the testing area. They sell some crap/unfinished game full of bugs and hope it hits big. When it does they start improving it. That's like (as an example i gave before) your car dealer telling you that your new car has some parts missing but they will send it to you later and charge you extra for it. Or even the manufacturer making a car but not testing it and selling it to you...Sorry if you crash we'll know whats wrong...bullshit...Meaning it's not complete. No not perfect (nothing can be) but not complete either.

One way or another m8 there is always someone who takes in the big bucks in this case being CM.

And once again: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Keep the darned graphical enhancement, the new island, the new maps and heck even keep the new weapons for all i care but please give us old OFP players the new netcode. Please do us the favor i think we deserve it after waiting for so long and having to play with that crappy netcode <span id='postcolor'>

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 02 2002,18:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes i've read FAQ and found out that BIS is not planning on updating MP code for old OFP players. BIS that's BS. You are the first gaming company i've seen that forces the players to buy their addon. We've all seen how Red Hammer turned out (yes i actually bought it) and how it was nothing special at all. How does BIS expect us to buy Resistance without even assuring us of a proper multiplayer netcode? I've been waiting for a new netcode since the original OFP came out and it seems to me now that BIS is more after the money rather than a better gaming experience for their customers as time passes. Really disappointed with BIS for doing this and for Codemasters allowing it  <span id='postcolor'>

Not defending this or anything, but just so oyu know BIS didn't have anything to do with Red Hammer, that was Codemasters...

Although I will definitely be buying Resistance as soon as it arrives in the land downunder, I would still like to see BIS supporting original OFP too