Supporter Process Not taking off?

[meatball 25]

Just wondering if anyone else that's submitted an entry into the contest is finding people aren't supporting entries b/c the process is a bit convoluted. In my case, I put in my entry in for the MP game mode category about a week ago and have about 22 supporters as of this time. Some of those are friends I directed to the site, but others are just normal supporters.

While I'm happy there's 22 people supporting it, when I start to think about conversion rates, I wonder if there's something a bit too complicated with the process.

- There's been almost 1200 views of the main thread for the missions(s)/entry.

- There's been over 1400 views of the

for the entry.

- There's been 362 visitors and is 271 subscribers to Episode 1 of the entry on Steam Workshop.

- There's been 51 visitors and 100 subscribers to Episode 2 of the entry on Steam Workshop.

- There's been 309 visitors and 297 subscribers to Episode 3 of the entry on Steam Workshop.

- There's been another 474 downloads of the Mission Pack over at Armaholic.

So, while it's not particularly scientific, if you add everything up, that's over 3700 'views' of Altis on Fire through the forum, YouTube or Steam Workshop, 1142 'players' that have downloaded the mission through Armaholic/Steam Workshop, and with all those folks, only 22 people have gone through the time to go over and click on a supporters button.

Most of the feedback I've been getting has been good and folks seem to be enjoying it, I'm just surprised at how low the conversion rate is between the amount of people that have downloaded/tried the entry and have actually supported it. It's not just mine either. The top rated SP entry that is published on steam workshop, Whole Lotta Altis has 200 supporters, yet there's over 26,000 steam workshop subscribers while the top rated MP entry that is published on Steam Workshop, Falcon 4 to Arma 3, has 64 supporters, with 490 subscribers on Steam Workshop.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Edited June 4, 2014 by Meatball

[IndeedPete 1038]

I'm having the same experience. More than 1200 downloads on Armaholic and god knows how many on dropbox. Steam is sadly not available for campaigns yet. Feedback so far has been - despite some useful criticism - simply overwhelming. But measured in Supports & Votes, it's around 40:20. I don't know exactly about stats of other people's projects but when I see a mission has like 300 4-5 star ratings on steam but the MANW project "just" 50 supporters or so I think something's wrong. I guess it's a typical human thing, we're lazy as hell and going to an extra website, login with some credentials to click one or two buttons is just too much for us. Especially if there's no explicit gain for ourselves.

For my project, I can always say my marketing is shit. I have no trailer and am too lazy to build, advertise and maintain proper social media channels (I have FB and Twitter for M.E.R.C.S. but I rather just communicate through the forums). An my project is still in the Alpha state, I think that some users might be anxious to give their vote already, unsure if I can meet their expectations. Some already said it's a cool project but they want to wait until Beta or full release for playtesting. And then there's this two vote system (Supporters for "likes" and Votes for - uhm votes...), you actually need to read a few sentences to get the difference - again lazyness. I don't exclude myself. Sometimes I play a good mission and think "Hey, I could drop a comment at the forums thread." Then I postpone it because of other things and eventually forget about it or think it's not necessary anymore.

As for your observation of the opposite case, where a project with a little download rate has many supporters I'd guess these projects have either different ways of distribution or are supported by clans / sub-communities etc. I hope the interest of users on the contest will increase as it progresses. And in the end a Support is just a number in a database which isn't nealy as worthy as a comment saying that your project is the "dopest shit" someone's ever played. :)

Edited June 8, 2014 by IndeedPete

[Rydygier 1317]

Well, part of them probably even isn't really awared, what MANW actually is and see no reason to spend time needed to learn something more about, majority of the rest simply doesn't care. IMO understandable even, if sad. Why they should care? They care about the mission, not about its author and his MANW competition.

Let' say I'm after work or school, whatever, checking at the Workshop, what new cool stuff I could play this evening or next weekend. So I found dozen or so missions, amongst them one or few with some MANW "blah blah" in the description. I may know, what is it, or probably even not, anyway. I'm here, because I want spend some free time playing Arma 3, not "supporting" some stranger guy, I don't know, never met or even spoken to, and the more learning, how to support, whatever this actually means and gives. Why should I? I have no time nor motivation for that "crap". Even if I know about rewards for supporters. Badge? Nah. Most probably I'm even not registered on BI Forums, and even if so, what for? 30% discount for Arma 3 game? Sounds nice and substancial, but if I'm looking for Arma 3 scenarios, then I already have that game and not plan to buy second copy. Unless for someone.

I think, most votes (a bit early for those IMO)/supports are coming from (only part of) active community members (what percentage of the total number of players they represent?) and maybe some few people, that plan to buy the game and are awared about discount, but those, without the game, can't evaluate, what is worthy of supporting, so will support random entry, or just first on the list.

Unless contestant is able and wants to mobilize/motivate many people/friends on his own.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Rydygier

[Kydoimos 916]

@Meatball / Rydygier - +1 support / vote from me for both of you! Keep up the great work!

@IndeedPete - already supporting and voted!

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

@Meatball - could only support your project - not vote, but I gave a +1!

[IndeedPete 1038]

@Rydygier: True, votes might be a little bit early. But I guess it has something to do with not actively reading / understanding the difference between both. Hell, before I've started to take part in the contest I even gave immedate Vote & Support to some projects because I didn't know the difference (and didn't care either). I don't really get why BIS decided to use this system anyway. It's true, we're probably holding this contest only for a few interested people from which half of them are creators / participants by themselves.

But nontheless I find MANW insanely motivating. I think without it and the great feedback I got on my proof concept release in the editing section M.E.R.C.S. would still be some unfinished idea on my harddrive / in my head. But now I'm continiously working on it. (Way more than I should...)

But I'm not able to mobilise anybody to vote for my project because I simply don't have any friends who play Arma 3. I'm the only one in my group who's actually that deep into this shit.^^ The few that regularly play computer games are focused on BF3 (or 4 or 5 or whatever) and stuff like that.

@Kydoimos: Thanks, always welcome! Though I don't think I'm able to catch up on Resist and Whole Lotta Altis. :D

[Rydygier 1317]

Thanks, Kydoimos. :) So we now see even better the difference between "I don't care" attitude of casual players/"outsiders" and so different approach of valuable community members, that think in quite another terms and perspective. To be clear: I'm not complaining about casual players' attitude (I present same, when I just play some game without engaging in community around it) nor about relatively low amount of votes/supports. Just trying to explain this phenomenon.

I don't really get why BIS decided to use this system anyway.

I can only guess. My guess is:

for votes - it is a way to reduce amount of entries, jury must evaluate personally. Perhaps they expected, so SP category will be most numerous. Too numerous. Well, so far there are still free places in the final pool. Perhaps just before deadline many new entries will show up. I read earlier, some was affraid of ideas/content thievery issue (IMO highly exaggerated fears), so prefer to wait till the last moment. How they want to gather enough votes to enter the final in such short time with current "voting dynamics", that would be a good question. Perhaps those dynamics will change later though. Or there aren't such waiting people in fact. Do not know.

- for supports and votes: a way to make contestant acting like free (well, not exactly) "advertisement tubes" promoting across "the internets" also Arma game itself by the way.

So, if I'm right, and if this:

It's true, we're probably holding this contest only for a few interested people from which half of them are creators / participants by themselves.

is true indeed, then the latter isn't working very well so far, maybe except some Total Converisons. They lately decided to halve amount of supports needed for getting "promoted" status.

IMO another part of the issue is, so contestants aren't as skilled/willing advertisers, as was expected. My case is exactly same, as yours:

But I'm not able to mobilise anybody to vote for my project because I simply don't have any friends who play Arma 3.

Nearly all people, I heard of, that are playing Arma, are already here. In fact, I haven't much friends anyway, never tried to have. I know maybe one guy in RL, that actually is interested in comupter games at all. No account on Facebook (had once, shortly, fled in panic), no Twitter (lack of time and desire for such things), no interpersonal skills. Also no skills, technical possibilities nor will to make decent youtube trailer etc. I'm more kind of recluse... Perhaps some others have both, modding and PR skills, I haven't.

No problem though. Anyway, despite all, I prefer treat votes/supports rather as indicator of my work quality, than my ability to gather and mobilise "friends" in kind of popularity contest "who has more batallions of friends" or even "who have more resources for baits". If the quality of my work isn't mobilising enough to vote/support it, fair enough. Apparently isn't as good, as should be to earn more votes. That's as should be IMO. If I by a chance win here anything, it will be not thanks to my advertisement skills and activities. :) So, at least in the SP category, most seems to have similar approach/results judging by numbers.

In such circumstancies, if this applies to the leading entries here, their work quality must be really admirable so far.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Rydygier

[IndeedPete 1038]

Sounds reasonable. In the end, we can't do much about it. I'm thinking of creating a small trailer for my Beta release with some captured ingame footage and some A3 stock music. Not too fancy but it should be feasible within the limits of my little knowledge about video editing. However, I don't know if I have the time. With all that stuff I've planned for my project and my plans regarding the summer months and exam phase and work etc. it's rather unlikely I'll make the deadline. And I'd rather turn in a complete release instead of a rushed version which is full of bugs and lacks important features. So, contesting should be optional for me at least. It's a community project after all. It's not like I have to create something until a certain deadline. To quote the Duke Nukem devs: "It's done when it's done." :)

Fears of thievery? I think it's like the whole patent / copyright thing. The best strategy in my opinion is to release (something) ASAP, so everybody can see your project was the first which features this and that idea. If another guy comes first (irrelevant if he "stole" the idea or simply had a similar one) your position is weakened at best.

I've looked into all three "leading entries". One is really well done, great cinematic stuff, very well executed but rather linear. One has great ideas and a good setting, but it's a little bit too linear and has some technical issues - but I'm looking forward to more content. The last one is probably really well done, has an open world concept, lots of features but it couldn't catch me. I've played it like five minutes then I've lost the interest because I simply didn't like the setting / story. Sad for me, but I still believe the entry is very well done and provides a fun experience to many players.

[Rydygier 1317]

The best strategy in my opinion is to release (something) ASAP, so everybody can see your project was the first which features this and that idea. If another guy comes first (irrelevant if he "stole" the idea or simply had a similar one) your position is weakened at best.

I'm of same opinion exactly.

[dabbo 10]

I've had trouble getting supporters for my entries too, it's far too much hassle - even for myself when I want to support other authors submissions from time to time. I just look at their entries and then leave the website but if it was easier, I would find myself easily supporting the project I like the sound of. :/

I did read that the support part isn't necessary for the non-single player entries, it's all about exposure to your work and nothing more. It will help with the single player entries as more exposure will equal more votes, which is what will be considered as part of the competition entry. I think you need to have fans to actively support/vote for you entries, become a YT personality or something or get a personality to showcase your work perhaps? All out of reach for myself and possible many of the contestants too.