[WIP] Challenger 2 MBT UK

[Yoshi 10]

So export all the files I've prepared as .3ds, then import to oxygen as .3ds then save as or export as .p3d? is that right? after I've done that do I add the main model, then add the other files as proxies? and if that is correct how do I scale it correctly so it's the right size in game? or should I concentrate on converting the files before I get into that?

[nodunit 397]

You should get the Arma 2 character or vehicle sample models here https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_2_Sample_Models that will give you an idea on the size of your vehicle vs game vehicle. It is also important to remember that one square in O2 is equal to 1 meter, so you can use those for measuring.

O2 is capable of saving only in p3d so as soon as you save the model it will be in p3d format, you can add proxies anytime you wish and they will remain at the same size as the file they are generated from, just make sure you resize your model to be accurate before splitting the proxy parts up otherwise you're going to have some trouble.

[hem 33]

No problem, yoshi...

But i'am a little confused in your second question?

If your model is over 30k polys then yes you will need to proxy it up, but only the NON animated parts.

Since it's a little hard to help you in detail over the topic feel free to add me on steam (Hem) and I'll be able to help in mor detail.

Thanks, Hem.

[Yoshi 10]

I will add you in due course, but at the moment I don't have a mic I can use until the end of the month probably, and thanks for the information I will get right to converting everything. Will post an update when I've completed the conversion process and added no animated parts of the vehicle as proxies.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

Hmm, so I just tried to import the entire model to oxygen as a .3ds file and I get a an error message and the model doesn't load, something about 'KFDATA' what did I do wrong?

[hem 33]

Exactly, that's why I told you to do it the way I told you. It's the only way to get a high poly model into oxygen.

[PuFu 4591]

Blender doesn't seems to have that, what software do you use?

i use 3ds max (mostly, and exclusively for commercial projects), maya and c4d.

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Mesh/Face_Info_Select

Edited March 26, 2014 by PuFu

[Yoshi 10]

I know Hem but I also need to scale it correctly so I thought that comes first, and Nod I think, mentioned that oxygens grid was a good way to scale but it would be hard if the model was split up.

[nodunit 397]

You can separate model components prior to importing, if you keep the settings the same then O2 should import the pieces at the same scale and position regardless of how many export files they are split into.

[Yoshi 10]

what setting would that be, it says when you import, the scale is 0.01 do I set it to anything higher?

Edited March 26, 2014 by Yoshi

[Yoshi 10]

Ok so I've converted the models to .p3d and hopefully scaled them correctly, I have created proxies for the static parts of the model, which are basically details and what not. But in oxygen it does not show them on the model when you create the proxy, is there something I am missing, or does it mean that they will show in game rather than show in oxygen?

[PuFu 4591]

does o2 shows them in buldozer? is the config set corectly?

a picture would help

[Yoshi 10]

I tried in buldozer but all it gave was a blue screen, and something about textures but I think that is because I don't have any yet, and I'll post a pic in just a second :)

If this isn't what you meant let me know

---------- Post added at 00:14 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

But as you can see I've clicked create, scrolled to proxy and add the models I had converted to p3d as a proxy, but I'm not to sure that is how you do it. I've not modded using oxygen so I don't really know the proper ways to do things but once I learn it I can repeat the process pretty easily.

[nodunit 397]

The texture error is because O2 can't read them, the textures are applied but O2 requires them to be re-path'd, you can view and select the model using them by clicking Window-resource library and then click the + beside Sections.

The blue screen is because the polycount is too high, anything exceeding 25K in a single scene is NOT going to render, this is why we use proxies and why I suggested you make the wheels less round, right now they are taking an absurd amount of sides.

Wheels are fun tricks on the eye, they may look bad at first but you can use texturing to make it appear more round in the center than it actually is, for example http://wargaming.com/media/photologue/photos/WoT_Screens_Combat_Update_8_5_Image_08.jpg look to the tank on the left, first start the center..looks pretty round yeah? Now look carefully along the outside and you can see that this is merely a 12 sided wheel, but its not so blatantly visible and when seen with textures it doesn't appear all that jaggy.

[Yoshi 10]

The problem I'm having with the wheels is that blender imports just a circle, I don't think it gives any choice to the amount of verts used. If I just wanted to test the model to see if it loaded in game how would I do that?

[Messiah 2]

The problem I'm having with the wheels is that blender imports just a circle, I don't think it gives any choice to the amount of verts used. If I just wanted to test the model to see if it loaded in game how would I do that?

The only way you're going to do that is by reducing the poly count first.

[Yoshi 10]

I'm not reducing anything yet, I know I need to reduce the wheels, but that will be done after I test her at least, so please help me with that :) I do understand where your coming from, but my problem is that if I keep reducing, I won't have a model at all.

[PuFu 4591]

The problem I'm having with the wheels is that blender imports just a circle, I don't think it gives any choice to the amount of verts used.

what do you mean it is just a circle? Blender imports it from where?

If I just wanted to test the model to see if it loaded in game how would I do that?

This has been answered before.

I'm not reducing anything yet, I know I need to reduce the wheels, but that will be done after I test her at least, so please help me with that :) I do understand where your coming from, but my problem is that if I keep reducing, I won't have a model at all.

You need to understand that game ready models for Arma3 have a certain polygon limit. If you fail to understand that and consider that reducing polygons is not an option, then i am not sure why you keep asking the same questions over and over again. You can proxy the model if you really want, but in order to test it out, you need to write a config for it, pack it and test it in the game.

[Yoshi 10]

What I mean by just adds a circle, is when you add a mesh, i gives you a set template and no visible options to change it. And I have been told nothing about configs, which is why I asked.. I know I've asked before hand, but I get answers I can't use (people forget that I have no experience with these types of configs). I want to know what config I need to have ready for it, to at least test if she goes in. And I do understand about the limit, but at the end of the day she's pretty basic on detail as it is, any lower poly and she'd look absolutely diabolical. I do not know enough to warrant slimming her down anymore. I know I need to slim down the wheels, that's a given I know that. All I was saying is that if I can test her I can see if she at least goes in... Do you understand where I'm coming from?

[Messiah 2]

I'm not reducing anything yet, I know I need to reduce the wheels, but that will be done after I test her at least, so please help me with that :) I do understand where your coming from, but my problem is that if I keep reducing, I won't have a model at all.

Then you'll never get

I think you've missed the point - if you want to try and test her in game, you need to reduce the poly count first - its not a case of doing it later. That amount of faces is simply too high for the engine without using proxies.

Bulldozer uses the same engine as the game, so use that as a very firm indicator of what does and doesn't work.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Messiah

[Yoshi 10]

I've reduced it as much as I know how without damaging the overall look of the model, as I stated and keep stating. I only know how to do certain things, I do not know enough to slim the model down without loosing the quality of my model, so repeating yourself serves no purpose. I know she's heavy, i'm not stupid, but bulldozer imo is a bag of crap anyway, half the time even with the oxygen provided samples it doesn't work, so if I want to test my model, I will. And the face count I don't know how to sort out, I wasn't to know when I started to model that a next gen game would have such a stupid restriction of 35k. i'm running a six core computer, I'm pretty sure we can handle a little bit more than that.

[surpher 1]

In Blender after you add the circle mesh in either object or edit mode you should see options in the tools panel (T) or just press F6 for a pop-up menu.

3D Primer for Game Developers: An Overview of 3D Modeling in Games

Edited March 27, 2014 by surpher

[Messiah 2]

I've reduced it as much as I know how without damaging the overall look of the model, as I stated and keep stating. I only know how to do certain things, I do not know enough to slim the model down without loosing the quality of my model

I've seen the Challenger 2 modelled to a high level of quality below the 35k limit, it's entirely possible. You just need to plan your model through.

but bulldozer imo is a bag of crap anyway, half the time even with the oxygen provided samples it doesn't work, so if I want to test my model, I will.

It is a bag of crap, but as much as I'm beating a dead horse here, no, you won't, not without reducing that face count or using proxies. I'm not trying to stop you testing your model - you've asked us how to get it in game to test it, and so far the only reply you've had is to reduce the face count - I'd take the hint - you can't even begin to setup half of the other requirements before you've fixed that fundamental problem.

And the face count I don't know how to sort out, I wasn't to know when I started to model that a next gen game would have such a stupid restriction of 35k. i'm running a six core computer, I'm pretty sure we can handle a little bit more than that.

Its debatable whether it's stupid or not. It does force people to use face counts wisely, and especially in a game as heavy as ArmA where potentially there's an obscene amount of kit being rendered in every scene, then I'm oddly happy that the limit forces us to be conservative in certain areas, rather than we run around with 1,000,000 polygon M4s.

Anyway.... Quite simply you have two options (or three I guess):

1. Be stubborn about it, ignore what people with a decade or so of experience in the engine are telling you, and blame (quite rightly, but it's the limits we have to work with - trust me, I hate it as much as you do) bulldozer, the game and the Baby Jesus for your problems. You'll not get her in game or working this way, whatever you protest.

2. Reduce the poly count (yes, I'm repeating myself, but clearly I have to) so its under the 35k limit (that's not faces, but points/normals) and when she appears in bulldozer, then you're one major step closer to trying to test her out in game.

[PuFu 4591]

I've reduced it as much as I know how without damaging the overall look of the model, as I stated and keep stating. I only know how to do certain things, I do not know enough to slim the model down without loosing the quality of my model, so repeating yourself serves no purpose. I know she's heavy, i'm not stupid, but bulldozer imo is a bag of crap anyway, half the time even with the oxygen provided samples it doesn't work, so if I want to test my model, I will. And the face count I don't know how to sort out, I wasn't to know when I started to model that a next gen game would have such a stupid restriction of 35k. i'm running a six core computer, I'm pretty sure we can handle a little bit more than that.

The restriction is way lower the 35k triangles per .p3d (2^15 ~32k vertices normals'). If you search these forums, you'll find my own detail explanation on the subject. Other than that what messiah said

[Yoshi 10]

Ok, I know what your saying I do, but please understand that my limited experience doesn't allow me much room to work with, I modelled the tank with one thing in mind, visuals. I do not know how to decrease without starting it all over again. so if the only option for me to take on at the present time is to decrease it, how would I do that so that I wouldn't have to redo the entire thing.

[Yoshi 10]

Ok so, I'm going through the model as a hole and manually cutting out un-needed faces and verts. It will take time and I will update you as I go.