Missions File Name Insufficient to help user finding what he wants

[Tom_48_97 523]

/* 23th sept 2013: This topic is more or less resolved and now waiting of more advancement from tagging chart for Steam */

First, many thanks to all mission makers for their work!

There is a known problem that can be solved easily. As everyone knows it, when you have multiple user missions in Arma, it can quickly become hard to find what you want, and the reason is very simple : Mission file name don't always reflect its content, and are often different from the mission name, and lack of number of players, mission name, mission type...

To illustrate what I want to mean, you can simply download 5/6 random missions and look at the pbo names... You'll see that's, for a lot of these, hard to find what kind of mission it is, or worst, which addons are required. Of course, you'll tell me there is a readme etc... but once you're ingame, you don't have the readme and mission description doesn't provide these useful information.

For example :

• Operation Clever Girl
  We know nothing about this mission except its name
  
• ThisIsWar TDM-24
  Better example, but it still miss the version, the author (if there is 2 TDM 24 named this is war, there is no way to determine which one is which one)
  

How a server admin works:

I'm aware that most of the times the information appears in the mission page on Armaholic. But I would like to explain how admins work. I get to treat missions only in the weekend, this means that by then there are already dozens of new and updated missions. The only way to do it quick and efficiently is to quickly download all missions, and use bulk actions utilities in order to process all missions together (in order to keep a cohesive naming format on the server all missions' briefingName needs to be renamed or removed and then the file name must be renamed to the required format). If we will work mission by mission it will literally take the whole weekend, and sometimes even the mission's page doesn't help and don't provide information on the player count, for example, forcing the admin to dig in the mission's description.ext that only sometimes include this information.

The best way to help users (players, server admin etc...) to find easily what they want is to determine a global naming convention. I'm aware that these information are in the readme and within the page where the mission is downloaded... but while browsing the missions ingame or in the mission's folder, these info are not displayed...

Now, facts are known and we have to find a solution to this problem to make player life easier, so a naming convention!

Ps: one more thing, the all file name should in lower letters since it's a requirement to get the mission working w/ a linux server, remember, in Windows File and filE are the same file but in Linux, these are two different files and the game will "probably" require only lowercase like A2.

(note that there is some useless information for PBO name but, ideally, the defined rules should apply to the downloadable archive)

Which information are required ?

• Mission type (sp / coop / tdm, all must be determined etc...) for obivious reasons
  
• Number of players for obivious reasons
  
• Version of the mission to help users maintaining their mission folder up to date
  
• Island
  
• Big mods
  
• Author (here, our old OFPEC tags should be usefull)
  
• Anything else ?
  

Example :

ext is the file extension.GAMEMOD_@BigMod_Mission-Name_OfpecTag_version.island.ext

(if no mod required, v for vanilla)

This would give:

• sp_@ace_escape-from-the-mess_tm4_1.00.altis.ext
  Single player
  Required only ACE mod
  Named Escape from the mess
  Made by TM4 (that's my ofpec tag, regiestered here a while ago...)
  Version 1.00
  Map is Altis
  
• co10_v_escape-from-the-mess_tm4_1.06rc1.stratis.ext
  Coop 10 players
  Doesn't required any mod or addon
  Named Escape from the mess
  Made by the owner of TM4 OFPEC Tag
  Version 1.06 release candidate 1
  Played on Stratis
  
• tdm30_@cwr2_escape-from-the-mess_cwr2_1.01.stratis.ext
  Team Death Match for 30 players
  required CWR2 Mod
  Named Escape from the mess
  Made by cwr2
  Version 1.01
  Map is stratis
  
• ctf50_@_escape-from-the-mess_bis_1.51b.stratis.ext
  Capture The Flag for 50 players
  Required some addons or/and mods (list these into the readme, missions description etc... Make the information clear and easy to access)
  Named Escape from the mess
  Made by BIS Ofpec tag (Bohemia Interactive)
  Version 1.51 beta
  

As extra info, you can also read the initial discussion on Armaholics forums.

So, the question is: What's your opinion?

Thanks for you attention

note: keep an eye open, this topic can be updated often.

Edited September 23, 2013 by tom_48_97
updated, see topic beginning

[big 0]

Actually, we will rename the missions before uploading them if we agree in some "name convection". I know many authors won't follow it (due to not reading this, being new authors, they just do not care and some other reasons) so this is why i say we will do it.

During all these years i constantly find missions without title, many multiplayer missions without indicating number of players, lots of %20 in titles, ... well, i am sure all of you know what i am talking about. When we started discussing about this at Armaholic i (we) offered to rename the missions before uploading them.

If we agree in a name convection, it should not add more time in the "uploading process" (just few seconds).

[Tom_48_97 523]

btw, I forgot to mention the file name shouldn't contain any special characters except . - _ @ (no space, no hashtag, coma, accent etc...).

Also, the ofpec tag could (and should) be optional.

[dale0404 5]

This gets brought up on numerous occasions and it will be brought up again in the future. The reason is because nothing gets done about it and rightly so. If you want to know what the mission is about then either check out the release page on the various sites out there or look on these forums.

But by all means go ahead and name your missions "correctly"! :P

[Guest]

We know that Dale, but right now we give everyone a chance to see, read and reply what will be working on and how we will deal with things, and influence what we think is best. Wether people do it or not is not up to us............we will.

By posting here and on the Armaholic forums about it people should not compalin later about our way :)

Edited July 25, 2013 by Guest
sometimes it is confusing to post on different forums :))

[dale0404 5]

I am not having a go at anybody here. I just think people are flogging a dead horse.

[joschaap 1]

having the opfec tag behind the mission name looked abit wierd for me, i got this naming convention scheduled for my next mission release: https://github.com/JoSchaap/GoT_Wasteland_V2.Stratis/issues/81

[Variable 322]

Thanks for making this topic Tom!

Here's my input (cross posting from Armaholic forums)

Naming format

May I suggest the CiA naming method, which is used on the Community CiA online coop mission list.

·All letters in lowercase (to support linux servers who don't accept upper case file names)

·Remove all spaces and replace them with underscore _.

·Do not use any special characters &/()%# etc. Although some might work Ok, it's better to be safe than sorry.

·Avoid excess use of abbreviations.

·Recommended name length is below 30 characters, excluding the .islandname.pbo part.

CiA File Naming Format

For Vanilla Arma 2 / Arrowhead / Combined Operations missions:

co04_mission_name.island.pbo

co16_operation_dragon_rising.chernarus.pbo

co75_mosque_party.zargabad.pbo

For CWR2 missions:

co08_cwr2_back_to_school.eden.pbo

For ACE missions (for any other full conversion mods replace the 'ace' with the corresponding mod's abbreviation):

co@21_ace_black_lake_sweep.chernarus.pbo

For BAF / ACR / RHS missions:

co14_baf_british_tea.chernarus.pbo

co06_acr_peacekeepers.takistan.pbo

co20_rhs_ambush_vodka_convoy.chernarus.pbo

for game modes other than coop these initials can be used, as decribed by Tom's OP:

Singleplayer: SP

Deathmatch: DM

Team Deathmatch: TDM

Capture and hold: CH

Regarding including the version number

From the perspective of the server admin, including the version number in the mission file itself is wrong. No admin or even player, for SP missions, would like all previous version of a mission on his client or server. If version names are included, it means that when uploading new versions you get multiple instances of the same mission, each with a different version number. That's why I immediately remove version numbers from missions before I upload them, and overwrite previous versions of the mission. The version number should be included in the mission description, and then it will be visible only in-game (it is then shown in the mission selection screen). Also, the version number should be included in the 7Z file.

Think of it just like addons, their versions are not indicated in the file names, for the same reasons.

Regarding the '@' symbol

I recommend deciding on including the @ BEFORE the player count, like that: CO@15_...

This will sort the missions inside the game with the missions require addons at the end of the list, making navigation easier :)

Edited July 26, 2013 by Variable

[lexx 1363]

Renamed my (not yet released) missions accordingly. :bounce3:

[galzohar 31]

You need the version number in the mission file or else you will keep wondering whether it is up to date or not. Also, you will be able to upload a new version without restarting the server (it will be visible next time someone opens the mission list), as overwriting the old file or deleting the it will usually require a server restart.

As for prefixes, I think they're only really relevant for grouping together all coop missions and sorting them by player count. Other than that, for PvP and missions, each is really its own game mode and thus no real "grouping" can be done (unless you label all of them with "PVP", in which case you hardly achieved anything as all missions are either PvP or COOP).

[Tom_48_97 523]

About the version, I agree w/ galzohar. For the _ replacing spaces, I disagree.

For example, if you have : co20_ace_from_west.abel.pbo, does it required ACE mod? Answer is no: co20_v_ace-from-west.pbo

More, using _ only to separate the different elements allow to check what are the mission details w/ scripts.

BTW, I fully agree w/ this:

• All letters in lowercase (to support linux servers who don't accept upper case file names)
  
• Do not use any special characters &/()%# etc. Although some might work Ok, it's better to be safe than sorry.
  
• Avoid excess use of abbreviations.
  
• Recommended name length is below 30 characters, excluding the .islandname.pbo part.
  

[Variable 322]

You need the version number in the mission file or else you will keep wondering whether it is up to date or not.

An arbitrary number won't tell you if it's updated anyway. Remember, we are dealing with servers with no less than thousands files. Keeping ALL versions of a each mission is just a big pile of mess.

You need the version number in the Zipped file name. NOT the pbo. And the version should be indicated in the mission description. That's how you keep track of versions, but DON'T make a mess out of your mission list.

About using dashes instead of underscores for the naming part, I don't know Tom... Your example seems highly rare to justify an effect over the naming convention.

[big 0]

Parts separator _

Inside each part separator -

This way you have no confusions. I am with Tom here.

[Tom_48_97 523]

About the version number, I may agree only if the version number is present in the readme (at least, if there is one because I've seen a lot of missions w/o).

The dashes as separators, it makes the file name more readable and allow us, w/ a script, to reverse the mission only w/ the file name (for some ongoing developments).

[Variable 322]

About the version number, I may agree only if the version number is present in the readme

Or the zip name?

Edited July 28, 2013 by Variable

[Tom_48_97 523]

Both would be great

[darkiron 1]

Good idea ! is a great things :)

[kylania 568]

Remember, we are dealing with servers with no less than thousands files. Keeping ALL versions of a each mission is just a big pile of mess.

You need the version number in the Zipped file name. NOT the pbo.

As a mission designer I don't care at all how a website keeps it's 1000s of missions. I'll never have 1000s of missions on my server. What is absolutely vital is that I'm able to upload a new version of a mission without having to drop my server and make all my players reconnect. That is only possible if version numbers are in the PBO file names. I'll never upload a zip to a server.

If version numbers are only in readmes or zip files (two places that have nothing to do with running a server since we're never see them) then this "standard" is meaningless to me. Readmes and zip files are fine and dandy for people running websites, but for actually running a server they are meaningless since no one will ever see them. PBO is the only file that matters.

Also as for _ vs actual spaces, if I see a bunch of %20s in a filename I'm not playing that mission and I'm probably gonna punch the author in the face if I ever meet them. :)

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

- Mission type (sp / coop / tdm, all must be determined etc...) for obivious reasons

- Number of players for obivious reasons

- Version of the mission to help users maintaining their mission folder up to date

- Island

- Big mods

- Author (here, our old OFPEC tags should be usefull)

Anything else ?

- Objective Type (stealth/Assault/Defend/Special etc) ***This is to expand on the description of what type of mission it is, mostly geared towards solo or co-op play

- Play Time (estimated time to play for solo or co-op, seems pretty non-relevent, but sometimes it matters when you searching for something based on available time)

- Intel (seems pretty non-relevent, but sometimes it matters when you searching for something based on your mood)

- Difficulty (Not just difficulty setting, but based on the mission designer, a mission can be made either to be very challenging, or pretty easy and straight forward regardless of the difficulty setting)

- Things of note/Features (This can sometimes be useful if it is relevent. I once got a mission where if you or any friendly dies, the corpse drops a few live grenades. Wasn't aware of that "feature" but would be nice to know.)

[Tom_48_97 523]

I agree w/ Kylania, the best practice is to get the mission version inside the pbo name, btw, it'll allow designers to keep a track of each version of a given mission, at the end, readme (except if it's named with the exact name of the pbo) will never goes into the missions folder and the zip will be trashed.

As Armaholic sys admin, I can tell you I have already 2/3 versions for a lot of missions... and often more, for example, I have 15 versions of COWholeLottaStratis*.7z (btw, another example of a mission we do not know anything w/ the file name). So, we don't check if a previous version of the mission is present on the server, we just upload the new file and edit the download page. The first goal of this topic is defined a user friendly naming convention, it may help website or not.

ShotgunSheamuS: Your suggestions are for the file name? If so, it would be too much info and would turn the file name less readable. Yes, the result must be comprehensive but it also must be short. Maybe a "standard readme" must be define, but this topic is mainly related to file name, maybe later, we will discuss about the readme ;)

Also, Objective type is like the mission type, the difference is that the mission type is mainly based on the header (description.ext) more some popular game modes.

kylania: If you make a punitive expedition, count me in !:681:

[Variable 322]

As a mission designer I don't care at all how a website keeps it's 1000s of missions.

We are not talking about websites, but on servers.

I'll never have 1000s of missions on my server.

Well, a lot of servers do hold similar amounts. The Comrades in Arms Arma 2 server currently hold 1413 missions, and on the rise.

What is absolutely vital is that I'm able to upload a new version of a mission without having to drop my server and make all my players reconnect.

I suppose most server admins don't maintain their servers while people are waiting for a game. If you do, that's ok, you could always update the version name manually.

it'll allow designers to keep a track of each version of a given mission,

I don't think we need to help authors keeping track of their versions, I think they do a better job themselves, at their own terms. The most prominent "customer" of the file name format is the server admin.

As Armaholic sys admin, I can tell you I have already 2/3 versions for a lot of missions... and often more, for example, I have 15 versions of COWholeLottaStratis*.7z (btw, another example of a mission we do not know anything w/ the file name). So, we don't check if a previous version of the mission is present on the server, we just upload the new file and edit the download page.

That's fine for websites, not for server admins. Since you hold the zip files on the database, you won't have any duplications anyway, so the pbo name inside the zip is irrelevant for that case.

My line of thinking is what will help most people :)

[Tom_48_97 523]

I suppose most server admins don't maintain their servers while people are waiting for a game. If you do, that's ok, you could always update the version name manually.

I talked a w/ a lot of server admin and this is far from a fifty/fifty but some of them (I think 25/30%) keep the old versions, mainly because, when you update a mission while replacing the file, occasionally, the updated version contains more bugs than the previous and once you replaced the file, it's not always easy to recover the old file.

I don't think we need to help authors keeping track of their versions, I think they do a better job themselves, at their own terms. The most prominent "customer" of the file name format is the server admin.

You're right about the designers, but I may disagree about the final customer, players fly from a server to another and when two servers use different versions of the same mission (it happens w/ domination, warfare etc...) the player will download the mission, then, when he comes back to the other server, download again etc... I experienced that and when your connection is more likely a fax, it's boring :/

... what will help most people :)

That's we need to define here :cool:

In fine, as some people are in favor and some other aren't (and with relevant arguments), we may define this parameter as an optional one, isn't it?

[Variable 322]

the player will download the mission, then, when he comes back to the other server, download again etc.

A player will download the mission again with any change in the mission, not just different file name.

In fine, as some people are in favor and some other aren't (and with relevant arguments), we may define this parameter as an optional one, isn't it?

Yep! Sounds like a good idea to me :)

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

ShotgunSheamuS: Your suggestions are for the file name? If so, it would be too much info and would turn the file name less readable. Yes, the result must be comprehensive but it also must be short. Maybe a "standard readme" must be define, but this topic is mainly related to file name, maybe later, we will discuss about the readme ;)

Also, Objective type is like the mission type, the difference is that the mission type is mainly based on the header (description.ext) more some popular game modes.

No no no, not the file name, the file name can be operation_whatever for all I care, I am referring to the description of the mission, in most cases it really isnt descriptive with the relevent information I would like to have in it's description. Also do note my suggestions are leaning towards the solo and coop play missions, not really the PvP/TvT MP missions. I go through armaholic, and look for a mission, and I will be honest. If I know what i am in the mood for, I cant find it, unless I download and test every single mission... and thats a pain in the arse, Hence my added input.

If you are an Admin at Armaholic, can you not create a template that mission creators can use to fill out, and kinda force them to use it? lol

[galzohar 31]

A player will download the mission again with any change in the mission, not just different file name.

Yes, but if the file names are the same then he will download the mission again every time he switches servers, even if both servers don't change nothing anymore. With different file names, he'll download each version once and be done with it. Then again, I don't think it's that much of a big deal.