Post related to feedback tracker ticket number 3002 "better wounding system"

[bez 10]

The reason I post here is because I have more options to format my text and place images or links etc.

And since it's going to be a bit long :) i think it's better to do it here.

You can read the ticket opned by CraziKin here.

Personally I would love the game to have a better wounding system, but I think it should only be in the hardest difficulty possible.

As a real Ex combat medic, I took the liberty of preparing a system I think is in depth yet simplistic enough for a game.

Please note I took out many steps from the real ABCDE procedure, to make it simple enough for a game.

This is by no mean a realistic portrayal of how it's done in real life.

In addition I also made a very quick and rough interface design for the treatment process.

[/img]

the image of the wounded soldier is from the Austrian Infantry Pack by Marseille77,

I used this image since it's the best T-pose of an ArmA soldier I have found.

Hope it's ok.

Link to a more in depth look of the interface in a PDF format, can be found at the bottom of this post.

SO LET'S START! (sorry for some spelling mistakes here and there)

A medic arrives to a wounded soldier, he press the action menu to open the Medic interface.

He then press the Diagnose button to get the diagnosis.

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INITIAL DIAGNOSIS

He is conscious and responding = 0 points

Treatment - Continue diagnosis.

He is unconscious and responding = 1 point

Treatment - Continue diagnosis.

He is unconscious and not responding = 2 points

Treatment - Continue diagnosis.

AIRWAY

The airway is not blocked = 0 points

Treatment - Do nothing.

The airway is blocked by the tongue = 1 point

Treatment - Place an Airway.

The airway is blocked by a foreign body = 2 points

Treatment - Take foreign body with tweezers.

BREATHING

He is breathing = 0 points

Treatment - Do nothing.

He is not breathing = 1 point

Treatment - Place an Ambu mask.

CIRCULATION

He is not bleeding = 0 points

Treatment - Do nothing.

He is bleeding moderately in one location = 1 point

Treatment - Place bandage.

He is bleeding moderately in multiple locations = 2 points

Treatment - Place multiple bandages.

He is bleeding heavily in one location = 2 points

Treatment - Place bandage and inject Hartmann's solution.

He is bleeding heavily in multiple locations = 3 points

Treatment - Place multiple bandages and inject Hartmann's solution.

DISMEMBERMENT

A limb is severed and not bleeding = 0 points

Treatment - Place a tourniquet.

A limb is severed and bleeding = 3 points

Treatment - Place a tourniquet.

Note- A severed limb can only be completely healed by evacuating the wounded soldier to a mash.

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POINTS AND RATING SYSTEM EXPLAINED

The wounded Soldier time to stay alive until a medic arrives will be determined by this formula:

1800 seconds (which is 30 minutes) / by final diagnosis points = time to stay alive

Examples:

0 points = not wounded at all, Soldier is fine and will not die what so ever.

(1800/0 = not possible)

1 points = lightly wounded, Soldier will die in 30 minutes.

(1800 sec / 1 = 1800 sec = 30 minutes)

6 points = moderately wounded, Soldier will die in 300 seconds.

(1800 sec / 6 = 300 sec)

10 points (max) = severely wounded, Soldier will die in 180 seconds.

(1800 sec / 10 = 180 sec)

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INTERFACE EXAMPLE AND SIMPLE FLOW

PDF download - Note, this was done quickly just to show the idea, it is far from being good or final.

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Please let me know what you think, if you have suggestions to improve simplify (or maybe more complex?), or if something is not clear.

Hope you liked it.

Edited June 9, 2013 by bez

[chrisb 196]

I can see you have thought this through. I have voted it up.

However to be honest, I can only see this coming into A3 via a mod, maybe CMS will come over from A2 or a similar mod made for A3.

Still good luck with your ticket..:)

[bez 10]

Thank you kind sir :) though It's not my ticket, it's by CraziKin (edited original post to note that), I just posted there.

Edited June 8, 2013 by bez

[rye1 22]

I can see you have thought this through. I have voted it up.

However to be honest, I can only see this coming into A3 via a mod, maybe CMS will come over from A2 or a similar mod made for A3.

Still good luck with your ticket..:)

It's already there. Cat out the bag but we've been making CMSA3 for a while. In terms of the 'body picture' of the wounded soldier, we're currently doing something similar. It's a great idea and you've portrayed a vanilla system that would be more easily accepted for the general population of ARMA players.

I have a few questions:

How would items work? Would you have a medical backpack with all items or have to pick out items individually - or would they be included in the first aid kit currently in A3?

Are there any negative affects for placing things in the wrong position, etc? It sounds like more of a game of place the picture by the problem, end of story. But still, it gives a medic more to do and expands the current system.

[bez 10]

Hey Rye,

You have some good questions, to be honest I didn't think about it too much,

this post is just to bring some suggestions and debate about it in general because of the ticket I saw in the feedback tracker.

Personally I would love ArmA3 to have an accurate Medical simulator,

one that you even have to prepare the IV (take out the needle and tube connect them take out the air etc).

But my goal here was, like you said, bring something to the vanilla game,

Something that would not be too complicated but still would add some gameplay to the medic.

I agree with you it's not there yet :)

To your questions,

1. I thought they would be included in the medkit of ArmA3, once you open the diagnosis interface the medkit content is revealed.

I think the steps of actually taking out the medkit from the backpack or vest then opening the medkit etc, are not really necessary and just hinder gameplay.

2. That is a really good question, I want to say yes, though I am not sure what exactly. Could be that if you place a wrong item the point rating will get higher (above 10) potentially killing the wounded very quickly.

Also, apart from placing the right item in the right slot, the order of the treatment is also important, could be that if you treat in the wrong order, the rating does not change, so the time until the wounded will die continue to drop.

I agree with you though, this is far from being good, I do like the point system, but the treatment itself (gameplay wise) is not very interesting.

I am thinking about it still, how to make it fun and interesting, yet simple enough for a game (I know ArmA is a simulator, but it's still a game!)

Having said that, it is actually the first time I hear about CMS,

so I might just quit what I am doing with my ideas and play with your mod :D

I will definitely check it out.

Also, if you need help with advice on combat medics and such, I would love to help you guys,

though I am sure you have a medic in your team already.

[rye1 22]

No, it sounds really cool none the less and I'd love to see similar in ARMA 3. You've put a lot of brain power into it.

Also, if you need help with advice on combat medics and such, I would love to help you guys,

though I am sure you have a medic in your team already.

Four... But feel free, we'd love to have another person on board from a research-advise stand point. Hit me up on Skype. :)

Be sure to check it out...

....

[bez 10]

WOW, really nice man! I love it!

That was ArmA2 no? is that coming to Arma3 also? I will definitely download it!

I guess people without some knowledge in ATLS would be lost in that mod LOL

When I think about it, my idea is a little bit similar to your mod,

Of course your mod is much more in depth medically speaking, no doubt :) but,

in your mod you press a button to make a diagnosis and then press a button to give treatment according to the text on the screen,

Also in my idea you press a button to diagnose and drag some icons on the screen based on the text you are given.

What I am trying to think of is how to make the diagnosis process more visual, with less or no text.

I think THAT would make it more fun gameplay wise, but I haven't cracked it yet,

It's difficult to make it simple enough and not boring at the same time.

Too simple and it's boring, so better just don't do it,

On the other hand make it interesting enough and it could get too complicated,

I am speaking only from the visual standpoint here, of a non text interface.

I was thinking something in that direction that would be made of layers, (made it really quick so I know it's ugly :D)

[/img]

The image on the right is what you would use to make the diagnosis, the image on the left is the interface to actually give treatment.

Of course you would have some textual input, for example checking pulse would show you a number on the screen,

but I want to try and keep the text input to the minimum.

I am still thinking about it, but the more do, the more I think it's pointless,

Great mods like yours would definitely feel in the void, and I don't really think BIS would do something like that.

So what's the point?

[CraziKin 10]

Hey bez, it's OP from the original thread posted on the feedback tracker.

You have worked really hard on this, I can see. I love it so far, and you should continue to work on it. This is what i have envisioned it as when I posted the feedback on the original post.

Keep up the good work!!

[mr.g-c 6]

Perfect. I bet BIS wont do it, but if they put things in the engine that make it possible for ACE3 for instance to do it, it would be amazing.

[Sneakson 1]

The current damage system is pretty sucky and I hope it gets improved a bit but a system with this much depth is probably best left for modders. Not for everyone, really.

I will be happy as long as they improve the damage modelling for the extremities somewhat. Right now you can get shot dead by someone repeatedly shooting your feet which is terrible.

Getting shot in the arms should make you unable to use weapons with that arm effectively and getting shot in the legs should make you limp or crawl. That’s enough for me.

[rye1 22]

Here's the way we're doing it:

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb463/RyanAAF/arma32013-03-2422-17-16-61.jpg (131 kB)

Obviously more complex as expected from a modification.