Formation bug

[bogart 10]

Hi beta testers,

As the title says I found a bug in ArmA3 and I decided to replicate it in a mission:

Formation_test.Stratis.rar

After that AI group has killed the opfor man let them go to the second waypoint and look at the formation, you'll notice they walk in 2 files instead of a staggered column, to avoid this bug I've discovered you have to put 300 seconds in waypoint timeout under min mid and max and then wait till AI "resets" its formation, otherwise you'll notice that the column will move in a strange way.

The group formation seems to reset itself after 280/300 seconds only if no enemies are spotted during this period of time, too much time to wait in a mission however...

I hope this will be fixed soon

thanks

Matt

[HKFlash 9]

You should use the feedback tracker and attach the mission to the ticket.

[bogart 10]

It's useless, I've posted there but no one seems to be interested to it... they prefer to improve graphics instead of ai issues, ridiculous

You should use the feedback tracker and attach the mission to the ticket.

[Harzach 2518]

It helps to tie your feedback ticket to a forum discussion like this one. Link your ticket here and I'll upvote.

[bogart 10]

It helps to tie your feedback ticket to a forum discussion like this one. Link your ticket here and I'll upvote.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8915

[Harzach 2518]

I tried your test mission in stable and dev builds and had no real problems with formation. Your waypoints were pretty close together though, so we tended to move in more of a glob due to the constant change of direction. When I greatly increased the waypoint distances, everything was 100% normal.

[bogart 10]

remove the 300 seconds I added and you'll see the subordinates tending to move ahead the leader or when he turns left/right they form a line instead of a column and the group remains in combat mode, I can post a video if you want.

I tried your test mission in stable and dev builds and had no real problems with formation. Your waypoints were pretty close together though, so we tended to move in more of a glob due to the constant change of direction. When I greatly increased the waypoint distances, everything was 100% normal.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Bogart

[Harzach 2518]

Removing the delay was the first thing I did, btw.

Anyway, you are definitely correct in that something is wrong here. Formations do not behave properly, which prompted me to look into it a bit deeper. The first problem is that, unless the intended path of travel is on a road, the AI will not take a direct route to the next waypoint. At first I thought it was some sort of randomization in an attempt to "humanize" the AI's behavior, but on further testing I am just confused.

Here is a single AI, given a rectangular track to follow using default behavior. I had him drop a marker at his position every 3 seconds. This is the result of 10 laps around the track:

With the exception of a few minor deviations, the AI followed a very specific path on each lap. This path seems to be determined by the terrain, although I did see similar results on the flat area of the airfield (see second picture).

Doing the same using a full squad moving in staggered column and normal speed bears similar results, only at about 20% into the second lap they drop down to limited speed and shift into a normal column:

Start point is the SW corner of the rectangle, moving clockwise. The first lap is the track of widely-spaced dots (normal speed) inside the rectangle. The second lap starts at normal speed outside the rectangle then changes to closely-spaced dots (limited speed).

All the while, the formation is rarely oriented to the direction of travel.

Basically, overland AI/waypoint behavior is kind of broken.

[bogart 10]

glad to see that one has joined my cause ahaha

nice pictures! you should put them in a feedback ticket, your explanation is better than mine.

the first pic is exactly what happens to me!

did you see that if you put a timeout of 300 seconds in a waypoint the column will return oriented to the direction of travel as you said?

[Harzach 2518]

I just have one issue with your original statement:

...you'll notice that they walk in 2 files instead of a staggered column...

You do know that a "staggered column" is essentially two columns offset from each other (hence "staggered")?

This is why I originally did not find a problem with the scenario - the AI were getting into the proper formation after the OPFOR was dispatched. Granted they move around like a marching band after that, but it seems as though the actual issue is being obfuscated by a tangential (or even misperceived) symptom.

It is difficult at this point to nail down exactly what the problem is, other than "AI waypoint behavior is broken".

[kklownboy 43]

Would like the ability to close up the space between the units. Would be nice if it was a option under "communicate", and have 1m, 3m,5m etc. I would think the group would have less issues pathing.

[bogart 10]

I know what staggered column means but if you don't put any enemy ingame you'll see that the staggered column for arma is a normal column with more space between one soldier and the others, however the bug appears with other formations too.

The main issue is that after OPFOR is dead it takes too much time to see them oriented in the travel direction, 280/300 seconds.

If you are patrolling a road and you have 2 groups of enemies, one on a waypoint and one at the next one not very far from each other, in the first case the reaction will be almost real

1 - they don't know where the threat comes from

2 - they go from safe to combat

but for the second case

1 - they will move in a really strange way

2 - it seems like they already know that the enemy is there as they remain in combat mode

I just have one issue with your original statement:

You do know that a "staggered column" is essentially two columns offset from each other (hence "staggered")?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii6/crawlingeye_photo/Formation2.jpg

This is why I originally did not find a problem with the scenario - the AI were getting into the proper formation after the OPFOR was dispatched. Granted they move around like a marching band after that, but it seems as though the actual issue is being obfuscated by a tangential (or even misperceived) symptom.

It is difficult at this point to nail down exactly what the problem is, other than "AI waypoint behavior is broken".

Edited June 4, 2013 by Bogart

[dmarkwick 261]

Would like the ability to close up the space between the units. Would be nice if it was a option under "communicate", and have 1m, 3m,5m etc. I would think the group would have less issues pathing.

Yes I've mentioned this as an improvement too. Being able to increase inter-unit spacing by 2m per step (or 5m, whatever a good amount would be) would also be nice, would allow for huge or small formations, flexible :)