Can we get slight differences between weapon variants...

[Wolfstriked 11]

60% VELOCITY AND 80% OF DAMAGE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.So my squad was running their weapons at 300m/s less velocity and 20% less damage potential on average....:butbut: Its a commandos life for me!!

[rye1 21]

I think he must be talking about more massive bullets... Tissue damage from pistols is pretty much all crush cavity. So, the damage they do can be boiled down to bullet diameter * length of wound tract (ignoring what exactly the wound tract intersects). So I would imagine that Gary Roberts is saying that there's not much difference in wound tract length given a slower bullet when the maximum depth you have to penetrate is the average human torso. So both heavy and light bullets are able to penetrate greater than nine inches of ballistic medium, probably.

"For 99% of uses, subsonic rifle rounds are STUPID. Subsonic rifle loads are a very niche item. Because they are traveling at typical service handgun caliber velocities, there are minimal stretch effects and uncomplicated soft tissue wounds are very similar to those caused by non-expanding handgun projectiles. Some subsonic loads do indeed use very long, heavy, pointed rifle projectiles (like the .30 cal 220 gr SMK OTM) that may, depending on shot line and tissue thickness, yaw over while traversing through the body. If this occurs, the permanent crush cavity can be a bit larger during maximum yaw than when the projectile is point or base forward. In any event, subsonic rifle projectile wounds are substantially less severe than wounds caused by normal rifle loads." - Dr Gary K. Roberts, FBI Wound Ballistics Expert.

[max power 21]

"For 99% of uses, subsonic rifle rounds are STUPID. Subsonic rifle loads are a very niche item. Because they are traveling at typical service handgun caliber velocities, there are minimal stretch effects and uncomplicated soft tissue wounds are very similar to those caused by non-expanding handgun projectiles. Some subsonic loads do indeed use very long, heavy, pointed rifle projectiles (like the .30 cal 220 gr SMK OTM) that may, depending on shot line and tissue thickness, yaw over while traversing through the body. If this occurs, the permanent crush cavity can be a bit larger during maximum yaw than when the projectile is point or base forward. In any event, subsonic rifle projectile wounds are substantially less severe than wounds caused by normal rifle loads." - Dr Gary K. Roberts, FBI Wound Ballistics Expert.

Sounds like we're saying the same thing. Initially I thought you were talking about subsonic vs. supersonic pistol loads but the nuts and bolts are the same.

I really wish we had some kind of body armour vs. body armour penetrating system so we could properly simulate hunting rounds and other non full metal jacketed bullets, like shotgun slugs.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Max Power

[rye1 21]

Haha, we'd certainly see different types of ammunition. AP vs ball vs HE vs HEAP vs HEAPI, etc, etc. The possibilities. That would stop me fighting naked. I'm pretty sure the current hit detection system includes something about armour every time you're hit... Maybe modifiable?

[max power 21]

Haha, we'd certainly see different types of ammunition. AP vs ball vs HE vs HEAP vs HEAPI, etc, etc. The possibilities. That would stop me fighting naked. I'm pretty sure the current hit detection system includes something about armour every time you're hit... Maybe modifiable?

To inflate the issue to cartoonish proportions, what I mean is if you're wearing a plate carrier, a round nosed lead rifle bullet should splatter all over it without any hope of doing serious damage. If you're not, then it should enter your body and explode, causing a massive permanent cavity. Right now I don't think you can have a bullet with extremely high damage do nothing to an armoured character. It was something I was considering when I was doing some research into a more realistic damage system based on empirical data that I don't think could be implemented. It was something I was thinking about when I was thinking about the OFP resistance campaign. When they start out, they have shotguns and hunting rifles, but no one hunts with armour piercing bullets. Soft nosed or deforming bullets transfer energy more efficiently, which is good for hurting someone but bad for getting past armour. It would make ad hoc resistance scenarios more interesting if their weapons performed differently, I think.

[Nosyashell 10]

I'm not trying to slam you or anything, so please don't take offense.

The round is stabilized by the rifling (lands and grooves) inside the barrel. The more time a projectile spends in the barrel being influenced by the "twist" of the rifling, the more stable it will be for longer distances. Most M16/AR platforms have a 1-7 or a 1-9 twist, which means that for every seven or nine inches the rifling makes a projectile complete a 360 degree revolution. The 5 inches between an M16 barrel and an M4 barrel takes away nearly one half a revolution that has to affect ballistic performance at range. Military ammunition also is manufactured for a specific barrel length/twist, which also has to be taken into consideration. At short distances (CQB), the difference is negligible, but beyond 150-200 meters the 5" difference between those 2 barrel lengths will show itself the velocities will be close to 300fps less.

Interesting article on 5.55/.223 and why the 2 should only be used in the rifles chambered for each (yes, there is a difference and it could save an eyeball), and tests on velocities etc. interesting read nevertheless.: ) http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

The M16 the Marines carry is heavier due to the stock/barrel length, which will make is a more stable platform to shoot from, and with the optics available nowadays, they are able to hit at respectable distances.

I wonder why in the magazine description, the ammo for the EBR, which is 7.62x51mm, is 762x45? I want as much thump as I can get ; )

[max power 21]

The 5 inches between an M16 barrel and an M4 barrel takes away nearly one half a revolution that has to affect ballistic performance at range.

Yep. The data shows about a 10% difference which is something but not much.