[MP][TVT/COOP] Total Conquest for Arma III

[kremator 1065]

No, this was with a low number of AI.  Will be doing MUCH more testing over the weekend.

 

Loving this mission!

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

I played TC a little bit and 1st thing I noticed is that the "capture threshold" for capturing a town is basically not existing. Simple fly over of enemy chopper is often enough to loose a town which forces AI group to turn back to that one. Also fast drive in with tank is enough to gain a capture zone where other human players could quickly spawn and make the capture final.

So I suggest a large count down after certain conditions are met like having most units within city limits + owning strategic points in town similar to BECTI or crCTI.

[kremator 1065]

Just removing the ability to capture in a helo would prolly be sufficient.  I like the instant capture, as you can really screw up the AI spawning by hiding in a building while you wait for friendlies to arrive.  Which brings me to my next point ... agressive buggers SHOULD be hunting inside the zone IF it is yellow!

 

Going to have my server running all day today with TC.  It is on release candidate 1.70 if anyone wants to join.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

Well, to serve everyone's taste the BECTI-way might be best - in parameter the capture mode is selectable. And in general parameter it can be defined if only humans or also AI can capture as well as if they must leave the vehicle in capture zone to capture.

[tvig0r0us 27]

I appreciate the feedback.

 

With regards to the point capture mechanics, there is a parameter that enables you to adjust the height of a capture zone. Its default value is pretty high, allowing helos to perform a cap just by flying over an unoccupied zone. It can be set as low as 10m which pretty much limits capturing to ground vehicles or infantry. I've tried several different methods for capping zones and I ultimately found that making the cap instant if the zone contains no opposition made for the best play. One thing I might suggest is turning on zone defenses. This adds the mechanic of assigning defenders to the zone to hold it. They are taken out of the assault pool and new assaulting soldiers are spawned in their place. The downside is the potential performance hit.

 

On the note about the ai searching a yellow zone, they actually are supposed to do that, but I found that the ai takes alot of time determining their routes and actually getting moving. If they're not stuck inside of a building, they should be looking around in the zone until they kill whatever is there.

 

That said, once I get this player vehicle issue fixed, the mission design is exactly as I envisioned and I have no plans to change it from a pure mechanics perspective. I am happy to add things to it if I can so so without destroying the existing mechanics, but I'm totally happy with the play of it, as is. With all due respect, if you play this mission and you find yourself saying, I wish it was more like this, I wish it was more like that, then unpbo it and modify it to your liking. Or go play the other missions that you are comparing it to. As I've stated before in this thread, this mission was created completely to my liking so that I could play A3 in a way that gives me the most satisfaction. I'm sharing it with everyone here, not designing it to everyone's spec.

 

If you see something that looks like it it might not be right, by all means, let me know as I would certainly like to get it fixed. If you just don't like the mission because of its design, then I'm afraid you're out of luck.

 

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

Good on ya mate! 

[kremator 1065]

After much more extensive testing I've now identified the problem with not joining the server - I'm not waiting long enough after init and it remains on black screen.  This is solved by jumping backing out again and back in once more.

 

Regarding the 'eye in the sky' idea ... could we get an extra soldier with drone capabilities?  I've also tried the JTAC and he doesn't have any lasing abilities/equipment.

 

64 troops on each side (x3 therefore) gives me a lovely stable 49FPS on my dedi server, and the action is AWESOME.  Troops are responsive (a bit too good actually) and I tend not to last too long in any vehicles if I'm stupid !

 

Looking forward to next versions/next islands (maybe even a carrier start?  - although that would need some amazing troop transport functions)

 

Cheers

 

Krem

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

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One thing I might suggest is turning on zone defenses. This adds the mechanic of assigning defenders to the zone to hold it. They are taken out of the assault pool and new assaulting soldiers are spawned in their place. The downside is the potential performance hit.

That is the issue of all CTI's.

Basic defense is AI job and hence must suck resources at server and maybe client.

No human player would wait hours for an attack that never comes.

Common solution: Town defenses are defined via templates and spawned after triggering.

But there we go: A few copter might trigger some 20 towns with maybe 20 units defined in each - and suddenly server FPS is down to 1 digit.

In the end only BIS can solve this by developing a capable server software that is able to deploy capable additional HW.

The "zone defenders" are owned by server->HC in your case? Or do they belong to the client who deploys the zone defenders?

The capture height parameter, can you give me the exact name and file so that I can play with it?

 

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That said, once I get this player vehicle issue fixed, the mission design is exactly as I envisioned and I have no plans to change it from a pure mechanics perspective. I am happy to add things to it if I can so so without destroying the existing mechanics, but I'm totally happy with the play of it, as is. With all due respect, if you play this mission and you find yourself saying, I wish it was more like this, I wish it was more like that, then unpbo it and modify it to your liking. Or go play the other missions that you are comparing it to. As I've stated before in this thread, this mission was created completely to my liking so that I could play A3 in a way that gives me the most satisfaction. I'm sharing it with everyone here, not designing it to everyone's spec.

 

If you see something that looks like it it might not be right, by all means, let me know as I would certainly like to get it fixed. If you just don't like the mission because of its design, then I'm afraid you're out of luck.

 

If it is related to...

 

Quote

Also fast drive in with tank is enough to gain a capture zone where other human players could quickly spawn and make the capture final.

So I suggest a large count down after certain conditions are met like having most units within city limits + owning strategic points in town similar to BECTI or crCTI.

 

....then it was not to turn your mission STYLE into CTI, it is rather giving your mission more potential to be player by others. Like your hint that you already implemented the height as a parameter for capture triggering is an example that you can change the game meachanics drastically with tiny changes or putting a lot of criteria into selectable parameter.

 

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I've tried several different methods for capping zones and I ultimately found that making the cap instant if the zone contains no opposition made for the best play. One thing I might suggest is turning on zone defenses.

This is a brilliant example. Somehow I like the idea of player defined "zone defenders" even more compared to rigid templates depending on town value and maybe upgrade level cus it sounds they can be adapted to the actual situation.

Is it possible to erase such a zone defender group or to move it like a normal squad? Loving this because AI are willing to defend a position while human lead squads often leave their position.

Usually I am with you that you own the town when the last defender is killed, that time delay is an inherit workaround due to the performance impact of large defender groups.

Usually in a CTI the defense group is just there to give other reinforcements the time to hurry to the town under siege.

During OFP I have seen a modified crCTI where the fixed assigned town defensders where weaker, but more patrol groups were roaming in a fixed pattern but if a town was triggered by enemy, those patrol groups were moved to the towns under attack. But it was to predictable and you could basically set up an ambush to annilihate the resistance patrol force.

 

In the end I seek for as much as possible "realistic" simulation and not to change your mission into something else.

And I did not recovered the entire potential of your mission and hence try "oldstyle" methods - sorry for that.

[kremator 1065]

11 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

 

Common solution: Town defenses are defined via templates and spawned after triggering.

Not needed in TC as the defenders are taken from the pool of your troops.  Running 64 each side (with 4 defenders in each 'base') is absolutely perfect.  My dedi runs at 49FPS with this config.  In fact I may turn it up a little to 80 troops each side.

 

11 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

 A few copter might trigger some 20 towns with maybe 20 units defined in each - and suddenly server FPS is down to 1 digit.

Triggering of the zones with a helo can effectively be turned off, so is less of a problem.  Also, have you seen how DEADLY AA infantry are ?  I don't survive for long!

 

11 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

In the end only BIS can solve this by developing a capable server software that is able to deploy capable additional HW.

The Release Candidate (1.70) that I'm running is VERY good indeed. 

 

11 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

The "zone defenders" are owned by server->HC in your case? Or do they belong to the client who deploys the zone defenders?

Zone defenders are taken out of side pool.  Unless you want to stay defending (boring, but sometimes necessary) I leave it to the AI.

 

11 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

In the end I seek for as much as possible "realistic" simulation

It is pretty damn realistic as far as I can see.   TviG0r0us has done (as is doing) a brilliant job.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

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Quote

The "zone defenders" are owned by server->HC in your case? Or do they belong to the client who deploys the zone defenders?

Zone defenders are taken out of side pool.  Unless you want to stay defending (boring, but sometimes necessary) I leave it to the AI.

 

The questions was for tvig with focus where the calculation takes place. E.g. you could own a group and calc it at your client and then move ownership to server (HC).

 

 

 

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Triggering of the zones with a helo can effectively be turned off, so is less of a problem.  Also, have you seen how DEADLY AA infantry are ?  I don't survive for long!

I recog, but 1st I must find parameter and try. Yes, and I have seen how deadly AA is, enemy copter approached very low and fast, was hit by 2 AA missiles and smashed at my head and killed me. :-)

 

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It is pretty damn realistic as far as I can see.

Well, havent played nuff to judge the performance, but the vast functionality is amazing already.

Until now I have seen only some regular cyclic micro freezes that I do not see in any other mission.

I have SSD both in server&client and texture loading could only be at client an issue. Also no explosions/particle effects causing this.

Will test more so PM me when you have time for common testsession if you like because:

Quote

And I did not recovered the entire potential of your mission and hence try "oldstyle" methods - sorry for that.

 

[kremator 1065]

8 hours ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

I recog, but 1st I must find parameter and try.

Look for cp_ceiling and set it to 10.  You won't be able to capture using a helo then.

[tvig0r0us 27]

 

13 hours ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

 

The questions was for tvig with focus where the calculation takes place. E.g. you could own a group and calc it at your client and then move ownership to server (HC).

 

Sorry I missed out on this whole discussion. This is sort of a hidden function in this mission and probably the product of lack of documentation, but... If you add a bunch of soldiers to your group, then select them. Use the scroll wheel to scroll to supports. Select "Set as defense". The ai soldiers are then turned over to the fsm and proceed to defend the nearest friendly territory, like the one that you are in (provided you are in one). You can also release control by selecting "dismiss" and they will run off and attack a target of the command system's choice. As far as locality, I'm pretty sure it is turned over to the server, but I could be wrong I suppose. I've never had an issue with locality with regards to this issue.

 

If you have activated defenders in the parameters, this is effectively what you have done. When a group reaches a zone and takes it, the number of entrances in the zone is counted and a calculation is made using that number and the selection of the zone defenses parameter. That determines how many groups will be assigned to defend a given zone. If there are a lot of buildings there, you will see more groups take up defense depending on how heavy you set the defenses. Truth be told, I could probably pull back that parameter as it seems to make for heavy zone defenses in a lot of cases. Anyhow, once the number of groups is determined they are pulled from the pool of assaulting soldiers in the area until the number and size of groups is completely fulfilled. New assaulting soldiers are then put into play by the spawn system. In the case that an assault group is spawned in a zone that needs defense roles filled, they will immediately be recruited into the defending groups or they will be assigned to defense as a group. In the beginning of a mission, all occupied zones are given defenders according to the calculations I just mentioned. In addition to all of this, when a vehicle overruns a zone, the occupants of the vehicle will jump out and take up defense of the zone.

 

To answer an earlier question posed by you Krem, your experience with the ai when commandeering a vehicle is how it is meant to be. When you commandeer a vehicle, the crew will fill any remaining spots in your group. If your group fills up, any of the ai that don't fit will be placed back into the assaulting group and move off to find a fight. The same should happen if you jump in a vehicle. This is what I was trying to fix. I've yet to have it work completely as I want and thus the expansion and release of new maps has been delayed a bit.

 

As far as the eye in the sky, one thing I can offer in future maps is this... I already have built the code for drones in these missions, but I don't think it's the way you are describing. One thing you can do in a mission with them though is switch to them. The only caveat is that once you switch to the drone, you become the drone and can no longer do anything else until you die and respawn. I'll have to do some more work with that in the future.

 

Thank you guys for giving this mission a good run. I really appreciate your feedback and continued support.

 

Cheers!

--tvig

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

@kremator oki, will set it that way @ try

 

@tvig0r0us thanks for the detailed description, I was indeed not at this point. Locality is important to me, I am a fan of server centric calculation, that keeps the mission performance predictable.

Do you have a debugging output that gives the amount of units in game by side/type and maybe by locality?

 

[kremator 1065]

4 hours ago, tvig0r0us said:

As far as the eye in the sky, one thing I can offer in future maps is this... I already have built the code for drones in these missions, but I don't think it's the way you are describing. One thing you can do in a mission with them though is switch to them. The only caveat is that once you switch to the drone, you become the drone and can no longer do anything else until you die and respawn. I'll have to do some more work with that in the future.

Would a UAV soldier in the list of troops not be the best way forward?  You can then assemble the UAV, launch and observe the battlefield.  If it got destroyed then you'd still be in your soldier.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

I am a fan of server centric calculation, that keeps the mission performance predictable.

Me too!  As far as I'm aware everything (apart from your group) is server sided.  When you recruit a solider it then becomes local to your machine.  However, I would assume that 'dismiss'ing the soldiers would put them back onto server control.

 

I've settled on 64 troops each side, as this allows me to use ASR_AI to control 'intelligent' AI troops with only a little server performance.

 

@tvig0r0us I have noticed a little slowing of my client at times but it doesn't last long.  For temp testing I run the dedi server on my same local client machine - so that COULD be the issue.  Once BIS get the new Release Candidate standalone server packagae to work perfectly (presently it doesn't recognise EDEN DLC!) then I'll put it onto my full dedi machine.

 

Keep coding mate..... we can field most of the questions that appear here :)

[tvig0r0us 27]

Well I think I finally have this vehicle thing worked out. At least I've had a few successful test runs. Now one last issue to resolve. I need to get the weather figured out. I had it all working at one point,but I think some updates to the game have made it a bit wonky. Anyway, I think it's almost ready for another round of maps and releases.

 

@kremator I'm not sure what could be  causing the client to slow down. I am playing on an alienware 17 r4, which pretty much consumes any slowdowns transparently. Only when i play the game local do I notice any stutters. When I'm playing on the dedi it's as smooth as silk. One slowdown I do notice on the server is occasionally the dedi will drop into the mid to low 30s for a minute or so, then it's back to the high 40s. Again, it's nothing that affects the game play in the least.

 

If there is anyone out there that is good at building interfaces, I would love to have an interface built for this mission. If you would like to collaborate, that is something that would really round this thing off. If interested, PM me.

 

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

I'm rolling back my build to stable so that I can use the standalone dedi.  Will test again on that other machine.

[kremator 1065]

Hey tvig.  I've now got my standalone dedi working, and mission seems to be great.  I did have a chap join the server, but it remained on the blackscreen for him (an init problem?)  Will do more testing to see when others join if they get the same thing.

 

On another issue, would it be possible to lower the tick counter down a fraction on the screen?  It seems to interfere with the weapon information.  I'm on a 16:9 monitor at 1920x1280.  Playing with 192 AI is going really well, but it is BRUTAL (as war should be !)

 

EDIT:  One final thing.  All AI are spawning in COMBAT mode which slows down their movement from one spot to another.  Could they be put on aware instead ?

[tvig0r0us 27]

On 5/18/2017 at 4:45 AM, kremator said:

Hey tvig.  I've now got my standalone dedi working, and mission seems to be great.  I did have a chap join the server, but it remained on the blackscreen for him (an init problem?)  Will do more testing to see when others join if they get the same thing.

Not sure what is going on with the blackscreen. There is a global variable that gets set to signal the initialization of the scripts is complete, I wonder if it's getting overwritten on the client. I'll check it out.

 

On 5/18/2017 at 4:45 AM, kremator said:

On another issue, would it be possible to lower the tick counter down a fraction on the screen?  It seems to interfere with the weapon information.  I'm on a 16:9 monitor at 1920x1280.  Playing with 192 AI is going really well, but it is BRUTAL (as war should be !)

I honestly wish I knew how. I've observed that too and I think it's odd since it's the hint box that I'm using to generate that. I wish it was part of the interface that could be moved around in the options. If you or anyone else knows of a way to change it's position through code, please drop a link or something and I'll make that change.

 

On 5/18/2017 at 4:45 AM, kremator said:

One final thing.  All AI are spawning in COMBAT mode which slows down their movement from one spot to another.  Could they be put on aware instead ?

This is actually a roll of the dice. It's random what mode they spawn in, but I imagine that with 192 on assault they probably shift into combat mode really quick. Some should come out aware, others stealth and others combat. Defenders may even be in safe, but it's all subject to the conditions in the battle field.

 

I'll keep digging into those other things. Thanks again!

 

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

Good man. I'll see about having my server up all day today. 

 

Edit: just had a couple of shower thoughts.  What about adding the new USS Freedom as eye  candy off the island? Also would it be possible to add (or replace) a soldier as a Zeus? Not to  add anything but to act as voyeur.... I love watching AI do their thing. 

[tvig0r0us 27]

Here's something I've been threatening to do for quite a while now.

 

A complete explanation of the parameter settings...

Spoiler

West Faction 1 - Select a blufor faction for this game
West Faction 2 - Select a second blufor faction for this game
East Faction 1 - Select an opfor faction for this game
East Faction 2 - Select a second opfor faction for this game
Resistance Faction 1 - Select an independent faction for this game
Resistance Faction 2 - Select a second independent faction for this game

West Assault Count - Select the number of advancing blufor soldiers on the battle field
    Disabled - The game will be played with no blufor
    Human Only - The game will only contain human players and zone defenders
        -Players must use "Add To Group" in the ingame actions menu to add ai to their side
East Assault Count - Select the number of advancing opfor soldiers on the battle field
    Disabled - The game will be played with no opfor
    Human Only - The game will only contain human players and zone defenders
        -Players must use "Add To Group" in the ingame actions menu to add ai to their side
Resistance Assault Count - Select the number of advancing independent soldiers on the battle field
    Disabled - The game will be played with no independent
    Human Only - The game will only contain human players and zone defenders
        -Players must use "Add To Group" in the ingame actions menu to add ai to their side

Assault Group Size (AI) - Sets the max group size for groups in the assault pool
    -Older groups will recruit ai from younger nearby groups until they are full

Zone Defense - Activates/Disables zone defenses and determines how many defense groups to assign to zones
    -The actual number of defense groups in a zone is based on the number of buildings in the zone
    -This parameter creates the coefficient used to calculate the number of defense groups
    -Also causes ai soldiers mounted in ground vehicles to disembark and defend a zone if taken and having no assigned defenders
Defense Group Size (AI) - The max group size for zone defense groups
    -Defense groups will recruit soldiers from nearby assault groups until they are full
    
Player Group Size - Sets the maximum player group size
    -Players can recruit any soldiers in the game by looking directly at them and selecting "Recruit Soldier"
    -Players can also relieve soldiers from their command by selecting them and going to "Supports"
        -Select "Dismiss" to release them into the assault pool
        -Select "Set As Defense" to make them assume a defensive role at the nearest friendly zone

Civilian Group Size - Sets the maximum group size for civilians
    -Civilians only spawn at the begining of the game
    -There is a harsh ticket penalty for killing a civilians
    
AI Skill Level - This should be pretty self explainatory

AI Target Select - The number of nearby targets considered by the command system when selecting an assault targets
    -Affects spawning as well
    -Set this low to keep the battle focused on a more limited front and higher to spread the battle around more

Use Vehicles - Enables the spawning and use of ground vehicles in the game
Use Helicopters - Enables the spawning and use of helicopters in the game
Use Planes - Enables the spawning and use of planes in the game
Use Uavs - Enables the spawning and use of uavs in the game
    -All four of the above options are subject to the vehicle spawn points available in the map layout
    
Ground Vehicle Balancing (Light/Heavy) - Sets the balance of light vs heavy ground vehicles
    -This parameter sets a weigh as a percentage of light to heavy vehicles in a game
    -Results may vary based on random selection of spawning engine, but this skews the selection algorithm
    
Auto Man Vehicles - Whether ai groups will be spawned to man vehicles if they are not taken after a certain amount of time
Auto Man Delay - Sets the delay in seconds to wait before auto manning vehicles if Auto Man Vehicles is active
Repair Vehicles - If enabled the ai vehicles will regenerate from damage making them way more difficult to destroy
Rearm Vehicles - If enabled the ai controlled vehicles will never run out of ammo so watch out!

Use Bases - If enabled, only points designated as bases can spawn soldiers
    -Points not designated as bases will be plain capture points and cannot be used for spawning
Start Points - Sets the point team distribution when the mission initializes
    Single - Each side will start with a single zone
    All Points Distributed - Each side will start with its share of randomly selected zones
        -If bases enabled, only bases will be distributed at start up and other zones will be neutral until captured
    Domination <Side> - The domination side will start with only one zone and other sides will split remaining points
        -Best to use with only two sides enabled

Start Time - Sets the in game starting hour
Start Overcast - Sets the starting overcast for the game
    -The weather system takes over after that point on a half hour change cycle
    
Tickets - Sets the number of starting tickets per enabled side

Unit/Vehicle Markers - Sets the map markers used in game
    Disabled - Explains self
    Player Team - Shows markers for player team entities only
    All - Shows markers for all entities (Including civilians)
    
CP Ceiling - Sets the height of the capture points(zones)
    -Lower settings make aircraft unable to capture a zone without almost landing
    -Higher settings allow aircraft to capture a zone with a flyover
    
Point Count - Sets the number of points in the map layout to use
    -Unless all points are used, the points in any match are randomly selected
    -Smaller point counts result in highly random matches, but slower moving and longer hikes

 

And then there's this... I think this one might be the one.

 

Tanoa - Left Island (No Plane) - RC2

 

Enjoy!!

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

Downloading and testing the shit out of it :)

 

[tvig0r0us 27]

Here is a shot at Katalaki Bay. I may still have some tweaking to do though. I added a bunch of zones and did some work with the bases list. This layout is quite large and contains over 50  points so it's pretty random.

 

Katalaki Bay - RC1

 

Enjoy!

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

I've been playing a LOT of TC over the weekend.  Looks like vanilla is generally fine - plays very well with 192 AI.  However, when I put CBA + ASR_AI onto the server, I got the black screen waiting for initialisation.  I wonder what can be going on ?

 

EDIT:  Playing perfectly on Altis on my server atm :)

[tvig0r0us 27]

44 minutes ago, kremator said:

However, when I put CBA + ASR_AI onto the server, I got the black screen waiting for initialisation.

I think I have some configs for ASR in one of the files. I wonder if it's causing something to run off of the rails when the mission initializes. I'll have to look at that.

 

--tvig

[kremator 1065]

Hmmm not sure.  I would doubt it.  I just tried it again on Altis and no issues at all.  Seems to be quite random.