Cyberpunk 2077

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

I would put it like, it feels like there is massive potential for next-gen gameplay but a lot of it is in quite an infant state.

Yeah, I may sound a bit harsh in previous post, but watching playthroughs on YT, you can see a lot of passion and talent put into the quests/story/general "atmosphere" (visuals and soundscape). However, the rest of the game makes it drown in disappointment. Potential is definitely there, question how much will CDPR will be able to "extract" from it. As much as I would love a "full-blown" Cyberpunk experience, I don't think it will happen - I'm not an expert in programming, but even I can see things which are not going to be changed, because that would need a serious rewrite of huge chunks of game.

 

(We can also play "what if" game - what if CP77 was never going to be an open-world game, but something more closed/linear/smaller in scale? A simple, story-focused game of old.)

 

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

If I'm getting this right, they got around 6 million EUR for R&D, plus 1,5 million EUR in relation to COVID?

Yep (with current exchange rates - I dunno how was it in 2016).

 

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

you can just loot everything once again, no stealing, no penalties. It actually deters from gameplay this whole looting thing, you often find yourself just frantically scanning (literally in CP77) everything and everywhere instead of actually playing and enjoying the game.

Noticed that in videos too, but... to be completely honest, I don't see how you could design it differently. Even in Kingdom Come (which I love, adore and IMO it's the best RPG out there - even though it is bugged as hell too!) I often find myself going through all the dead bodies in search of sweet-sweet loot. The other option is blocking looting altogether (like in Shadowrun Returns - a "classic" isometric RPG), but that's not really realistic, and often punishing ("why I can't pickup this level 9000 laser gun from enemy I beat in fair and square fight?"). Heck, in CP77 you don't get to see contents of all the dead enemy's pockets (like you do in KCD). I guess the player himself has to decide how much to put into "role-play" and how much to mess with game mechanics.

 

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

scenes so far (I'm just doing these side jobs for now and some really are jobs...) are incredibly emotional, relatable in a sense how an actual person would react and behave

Agreed - writing, voice acting, animation is incredible. Okay, except Keanu - he got woodden as hell in last 20 years :D But other voice actors are doing top-notch job!

 

Still, you can feel that some important parts where cut out. When

Spoiler

a particular character dies in early game, the emotions are huge, but somehow you don't feel all that relating to the situation, like when (for example) Tommy Vercetti had to gun down Lance Vance in GTA: Vice City.

 

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

Regardless, what we need now is for them to get a grip and actually finish this projekt.

Agreed. See, the weirdest (for me) thing in this whole mess is that, as someone who DIDN'T want to play this game, now I'm actually kinda on the team "Go CDPR! Go!". I want them to succeed, finish the game, so I can play it somewhere in 2024, 50% off, with all DLCs in "Complete Edition" :D

 

On 1/14/2021 at 11:50 PM, Janez said:

Maybe he's just playing on his strings a bit.

Haven't watched Cybergate vid yet, but I think the issue is that his video wasn't really "censored", as in really removed from YT for violation of their rules. They just made it "not appear", which is weird. So, even if the reason was just "porn", they haven't communicated the decision to Mack, nor anyone else, and vid is still there. I think that's his biggest issue - he probably knows it's the sex-toy footage, but plays "dumb customer" so that YT will admit to doing anything.

Kinda what I had to do few weeks back, when Steam locked my account for even crazier reasons :D

[Janez 530]

12 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

As much as I would love a "full-blown" Cyberpunk experience, I don't think it will happen - I'm not an expert in programming, but even I can see things which are not going to be changed, because that would need a serious rewrite of huge chunks of game.

I'm afraid that is actually the case. There was this article by Jason Schreier recently, summary and dev respons by YongYea. You can take the article and that summary for what you want, it's Schreier and Bloomberg after all. Some things are most likely true to a degree, some blown out of proportion, I'm not particularly interested in that. What I am more interested in is the response Adam Badowski gave, downplaying and hand picking what he likes to respond to and what not. It's kinda slav thing to sometimes have the need to defend yourself in a tactfully unsound manner but really, I think they should just STFU, hunker down and go to work. Marcin already gave out a statement, which was a lot more in line with what players want. Adam's response is more worrisome then reassuring in a sense that leadership is content on fixing the game, rather then fixing & improving - implementing cut/expanding underdeveloped features.

 

12 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Noticed that in videos too, but... to be completely honest, I don't see how you could design it differently.

Yeah, so I don't have a problem with looting bodies (in games, I guess that makes it sound less creepy) and one or couple of containers around the "boss" or objective but randomly scattered ashtrays and stress balls on most nonsensical locations is just bad design and incredibly annoying. On top of that, many objects are either slightly sunk or somehow blocked by something invisible and you cannot pick them up. This type of saturation is fine in games like Deus Ex, where you have smaller hubs and exploring every nook and cranny is feasible and actually interesting. Even something like Skyrim or Fallout, while the map is big it's very densely packed. Although, it was a bit much in Fallout 4 as well, when they turned every piece of junk into a resource. CP77's map is GTA like so imagine playing GTA grid searching for... fu*king ashtrays. That's not enough though, you then have to go into... for-controller-designed inventory screen and either deconstruct all the ashtrays and 10€$ drinks or find a vendor/drop point and sell it. Luckily there are already various plugin script mods on Nexus that do that either auto or via button press.

There is a gigantic junkyard in CP77 for example, there could be a mechanic to get large volumes of resources in exchange for money or some sort of minigame/contracts/whatever.

 

12 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Okay, except Keanu - he got woodden as hell in last 20 years

Haha, so I think this is actually his best performance like ever, not only compared to John Wick 3 where I'm pretty sure he doesn't say more then 10 sentences. Sure, not every conversation with him is exactly on same level but I was quite impressed by him so far. In some initial scenes he's a bit stiff but he gets the hang of it pretty quick. Most scenes I've seen with him so far are pretty spectacular tbh, either hilarious, grim or intentionally annoying. I also really dig this dynamic between fem V and Johnny, I'm role-playing her like she rolls her eyes but ultimately she puts up with him. So I guess, when he gets a good script he actually can act, who knew. 🙂

 

12 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Agreed. See, the weirdest (for me) thing in this whole mess is that, as someone who DIDN'T want to play this game, now I'm actually kinda on the team "Go CDPR! Go!". I want them to succeed, finish the game, so I can play it somewhere in 2024, 50% off, with all DLCs in "Complete Edition" 😄

Yeah but now I'm flip-flopping on the negative. 🙂 No but seriously, nothing wrong with that, I've been waiting for "Complete Editions" for like a decade now and hey, a bit of positive mentality doesn't hurt. You know from the other thread that I was a bit heartbroken rather then purely angry per se with whole Old Man thing because, like CP77, I think it's really good mission just unfinished.

I wanted to support CDPR though and all in all, while it's disappointing, I don't have that gut-wrenching feeling when you know you flushed 60+€ down the toilet.

 

12 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Kinda what I had to do few weeks back, when Steam locked my account for even crazier reasons 😄

What? You can't leave it on a cliffhanger like that, you got me all curious now.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, Janez said:

There was this article by Jason Schreier recently, summary and dev respons by YongYea. You can take the article and that summary for what you want, it's Schreier and Bloomberg after all. Some things are most likely true to a degree, some blown out of proportion, I'm not particularly interested in that. What I am more interested in is the response Adam Badowski gave, downplaying and hand picking what he likes to respond to and what not.

While I agree that they should keep their mouths shut (I may be wrong, but I saw someone on the net calling it "The No Man's Sky way of damage control", I kinda see why Badowski wrote what he wrote (even if he shouldn't). Schreier's article doesn't contain anything which we (gamers) didn't knew before, and even CDPR admitted to those things (even though it shouldn't happen in the first place). Even Jakubiak's comments on crunch time etc. is what we knew few weeks back already. I guess the article may be interesting for some complete outsider - like your typical Bloomberg news reader, who (I assume) doesn't waste his precious time on video games. :D

 

When it comes to the E3 demo - anyone with a bit of a reason should know that all those "big event gameplay demos" are fake. And the fake-to-real ratio is bigger the furthest from release game is. In 2018 CP77 was really only two years in development, and in demo they already have all the systems working? And art? So, what they are working on then? So of course it's fake, a "target render", maybe done in game engine. Like those "in-engine" vids EA made for one of the latest Battlefields (I forgot which one) - none of them looked like final game too. But here's the catch - your deal with publisher requires you to make those promo events/vids, so what choice you have? Sony and MS expect you to show something, well, let's then give them something! This is similiar to the NMS situation, where Hello Games also had to fake a demo for Sony event (and it also kicked them in their butts). My question is then: is it really fault of the dev, or the big corp that dev is essentially a sub-contractor for? Key words that come to mind in this "dev-corp" angle: BIS, Arma 3, Valve, Steamworks. Was BIS at fault, making a deal with Valve so they could secure financing Arma 3 development? Or was Valve at fault, for forcing BIS to do things in a way which was a huge, huge departure from their previous "policy". Obviously, both are "guilty" to a point, but someone has had more "leverage". Formerly independent, sell-out devs, or big ugly corp?

 

Comments about language (which Schreier backtracked later) smell of some "virtue signalling" and "white privilege" journalism that US media are known for lately. However (and that's a story I heard from "friend of a friend" who works in other Warsaw-based game developer), there's apparently a big issue with "western" developers who come to Poland, expecting that everything will be working as they wish. There's a lot of "eurocentrism", misunderstanding and often complete lack of respect for local culture, not to mention looking down at Polish co-workers (including management/leadership!) because "I know better than those uncivilized barbarians". I wonder if similiar "multi-culti failure" happened at CDPR, especially with big influx of foreign devs in last years (what's funny is that 90% of game devs in Poland are big "americanized" neo-liberals themselves).

On 1/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, Janez said:

There is a gigantic junkyard in CP77 for example, there could be a mechanic to get large volumes of resources in exchange for money or some sort of minigame/contracts/whatever.

...like in GTAV? :D Also: don't you hate it when you play a game, and you see some obvious possibilities that devs missed entirely? Makes you wonder if they even play their games!

 

On 1/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, Janez said:

Haha, so I think this is actually his best performance like ever, not only compared to John Wick 3 where I'm pretty sure he doesn't say more then 10 sentences.

I may be jaded a bit :D But I rewatched Matrix for 100000th time recently, and was surprised that Keanu has more than two facial expressions and voice tones in the movie!

On 1/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, Janez said:

I wanted to support CDPR though and all in all, while it's disappointing, I don't have that gut-wrenching feeling when you know you flushed 60+€ down the toilet.

Oh, I feel you man. Guess it's time to remember the words of Mack The Wise: "don't preorder games". I must say that most games I buy now are titles which are few years old already. And the only preorder I ever did was Contact DLC for A3. That was a MASSIVE let down for me. So yeah, I can only imagine how bummed you are, especially seeing your posts in this thread, going three years back.

 

Seems like BIS is greatest pioneer/prophet of video gaming - all their games were "early access" going back to at least Arma 1 (dunno 'bout OFP, don't remember those times).

On 1/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, Janez said:

cliffhanger like that

TL;DR version is that my account was blocked because of "suspicious activity" and possible "account stealing". Of course I never-ever got any notification that someone logs into my account from unknown devices/places, but Steam deleted a month worth of my posts on their forums (including thread on a Workshop item I was helping with), and made me show "a proof of purchase" of any of the game I own on the platform - one that was not a simple confirmation mail from Steam, as those are not applicable for whatever reason. Thing is - it's kinda hard to have such "a proof of purchase" when 99.99% of my purchases there are with anonymous payment methods like PaySafe. Fortunately there was one game I had bought with credit card, so now I can resume happily playing games I had thought I bought, but in truth I only rented :D

 

That's how it ends when you try to mess with the corporations in the 2021 cyberpunk dystopia. As for why they blocked me in the first place - I never got any answer which was not an automated (and completely non-applicable) response signed by "generic human name #249". Guess I must have posted something that made angry Steam forum moderators (dunno what because I'm trying hard to net get banned from the service), but then why bogus "your account was stolen"?

[Janez 530]

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

While I agree that they should... <snip the whole first part of you post>.

Ah, thank you for fascinatingly refreshing reading.

 

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Also: don't you hate it when you play a game, and you see some obvious possibilities that devs missed entirely? Makes you wonder if they even play their games!

Sigh.

 

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

But I rewatched Matrix for 100000th time recently, and was surprised that Keanu has more than two facial expressions and voice tones in the movie!

Yeah OK, the first Matrix was pretty special. Still pretty "wooden" though. 😄 That's exactly how we said it as well.

 

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Seems like BIS is greatest pioneer/prophet of video gaming - all their games were "early access" going back to at least Arma 1 (dunno 'bout OFP, don't remember those times).

Haha, oh yeah for sure, for better or for worse. While OPF evolved quite a bit, it was quite stable experience to begin with though.

 

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Thing is - it's kinda hard to have such "a proof of purchase" when 99.99% of my purchases there are with anonymous payment methods like PaySafe.

That is why I always try to save those confirmation emails. Damn PaySafe though, someone - either them in Miami or some regulators or both came up with idea that you need to create a PaySafe account when making a purchase above 50€ and account is not just email and password. Tax ID N0 is optional, for now... it wouldn't surprise me if they come up with PaySafe credit card next. Luckily you can make couple of smaller transfers to your Steam or GoG wallet. Not exactly sure about Steam but you set specific amounts on GoG, 49,99 for example.

 

Anyway, good that you got your account back.

 

9 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

That's how it ends when you try to mess with the corporations in the 2021 cyberpunk dystopia.

Sigh.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Just wanted to add that IMO the "problem with Cyberpunk" is not just that. It's actually a symptom of a bigger problem with gaming industry as it is. We, the customers, allowed this to happen - what once was a sign of failure, today is tolerated. Hence "early access", bugs, more budget in marketing, less in development, few original ideas, increasing prices. There's huge uproar when "independent" dev messes up, but what many forget is that other "big name" studios/publishers are having exactly the same issues. It's just that we're used to see big devs to overpromise/underdeliver, and we're hoping for "someone" (CDPR, BIS, HelloGames, etc.) to suddenly come out with some refreshing new game that "just works" and will somehow miraculously save the video game world.

 

But truth is that today "independent" devs aren't really that independent - they still have deals with Epic/Valve/Sony/Microsoft, and those deals affect the final product quality (because who gets the final word in terms of deadlines even?). So (and this will sound a bit pesimistic) the only way to change it, is now to starve the beast completely. "No pre-orders" is not enough, it's time for no new games, and even no new gaming hardware, because it's all connected. Unless you're paying directly to the devs (with no Steam store, or PlayStation store to take a lion share of game price), you're never going to break that corporate connection. And if that won't happen, then we will have more "Cyberpunks" in the future.

 

(Of course this sucks from dev point of view, because deals with Big Corps are beneficial to them, either in terms of funding or marketing - but still, it is a double-edged sword)

[brusher16 14]

cyberpunk is trash in PS4 bEcause of the engine and stuff since it only supports PS5

[Janez 530]

Apparently there is gonna be an anime series on Netflix called Cyberpunk: Edgerunners. I'm not particularly into anime, at all really but I'm kinda interested in this. Some Japanese guys are making it so I imagine they wont go crazy like those woke freaks tried and partially succeeded with The Witcher series.

 

Quote

 

We're excited to announce that together with an acclaimed Japan-based animation company, Studio Trigger, and the world's leading streaming entertainment service, Netflix, we're working on a new original anime series set in the same universe as Cyberpunk 2077!

CYBERPUNK: EDGERUNNERS tells a standalone, 10-episode story about a street kid trying to survive in a technology and body modification-obsessed city of the future. Having everything to lose, he chooses to stay alive by becoming an edgerunner—a mercenary outlaw also known as a cyberpunk.

Hiroyuki Imaishi (Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Promare) will direct the series along with assistant director Masahiko Otsuka (Gurren Lagann, Promare), creative director Hiromi Wakabayashi (Kill la Kill), character designers Yoh Yoshinari (Little Witch Academia, BNA: Brand New Animal) and Yuto Kaneko (Little Witch Academia), and the adapted screenplay by Yoshiki Usa (SSSS.GRIDMAN, Promare) and Masahiko Otsuka (Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Promare). The original score will be composed by Akira Yamaoka (Silent Hill series).

The series will premiere in 2022.

More details to come!

 

 

[Janez 530]

I hope you don't mind after all this time, I haven't been around here lately and I must have missed your latest post which I now, as per usual, enjoyed reading. It's a rather appropriate thread for this kind of talk after all. Especially if one turned the game. 🙂

 

On 1/25/2021 at 7:27 PM, krzychuzokecia said:

It's actually a symptom of a bigger problem with gaming industry as it is.

 

Or any industry for that matter? I used to love cars, not just dreams like Porsches and Ferraris, and not just as a transportation vehicle but a display of mechanical beauty following function. Similar as to why we have fascination with fighter jets, if you're into that, we tend to be around here. Now, everyone has their own taste, of course but one can hardly deny that for example, 1998-2003 BMW M5 is pretty much the pinnacle of sedan design and engineering. In terms of build quality, materials, nobs and switches and in terms of overall performance. An excellent portrait of balance, just how thing should be in life.

 

These days, when I look at cars, with each year I'm struggling more and more to see much beyond an appliance. Pump out, optimize, increase revenue, repeat. I won't stretch this indefinitely but it's easy to just say "in the good old days..." or "when I was..." or "these youglings today..." or "those corps..." but the truth is that we created this vicious circles where we are so deep in everything, everything is incredibly interconnected and dependent on so many things. Incredibly complex and elaborate systems in place. So, I'm not sure what your level of theological education is but you are incredibly right in so many ways when you say this.

Quote

So (and this will sound a bit pesimistic) the only way to change it, is now to starve the beast completely.

And lets forget for a moment that some branches have less then stellar objectives in mind. We've created this environment full of terrible choices to draw from and we continue to refuse to pay the price for the right choices and keep coming up with workarounds and excuses until everything crumbles. Example? Well, we could have enforced accountability in 2008 but we chose not to. "The banks employ thousands of people, we can't hold them accountable, what would happen to the low level workers", we said.

 

So, how far against our very nature are we going to go this time before enough is enough? I always lovingly chuckle when some twenty year old kid thinks they know stuff because they have a smartphone with a search engine. These kind of tables though, such as Kings of Israel and Judah I really like, puts things, history in perspective. One can learn the faith of people who turned their backs to God in The Holy Bible (link). Word of advice though, if this is your first time reading, start with The New Testament.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:35 PM, Janez said:

Or any industry for that matter?

(...)

These days, when I look at cars, with each year I'm struggling more and more to see much beyond an appliance. Pump out, optimize, increase revenue, repeat.

Oh, I agree completely! It seems that the world as a whole fell into some trap. What kind of trap it is? I dunno. I mean, I have my hypothesis...

 

(I wrote some lengthy paragraph here, but decided to axe it, because in the end it wasn't really a good explanation of my thoughts and feelings on the matter - still, it's a valid point you raised, and I'll get back to it after some more musing about it)

 

On 5/19/2021 at 9:35 PM, Janez said:

998-2003 BMW M5 is pretty much the pinnacle of sedan design and engineering

I'll have to disagree on above though! I'm more of a 90s Mercedes-Benz kind of man :D

[Janez 530]

11 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

I'll have to disagree on above though! I'm more of a 90s Mercedes-Benz kind of man 😄

Hehe, I get it but I'll still say this. While W124 and it's derivatives is truly a world class vehicle even now and the basis for most of today's standards, when we are talking about performance oriented sedans with true soul put into it, then I don't think it gets much better then the E39.

 

Quote

(I wrote some lengthy paragraph here, but decided to axe it, because in the end it wasn't really a good explanation of my thoughts and feelings on the matter - still, it's a valid point you raised, and I'll get back to it after some more musing about it)

I like that. Recently, I heard a wise man say something along the lines of "it is not only important that we seek out the truth and justice, it is equally important how we go about it". In terms of forums, there is no need for heat of the moment knee-jerk responses (not that this was the case here). Life is way too fast as is, it is important to slow things down and chew on things.

[Janez 530]

First substantial patch fixing a bit beyond broken quests, crashes and getting console versions into shape has been released. Changelog below, it also includes free DLC in form of alternate skin for Johnny, some outfits and a vehicle.

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/39092/patch-1-3-list-of-changes

 

[Janez 530]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:14 PM, krzychuzokecia said:

Oh, I agree completely! It seems that the world as a whole fell into some trap. What kind of trap it is? I dunno. I mean, I have my hypothesis...

I came across Mr. Varoufakis today, explaining what he refers to as technofeudalism and I remembered our convos here.

 

One can also refer to City of London and that sort of thing. Cyberpunk 2077 features quite a bit of these soft of topics, albeit mostly only in form of hints. I distinctly remember one almost random scene in the game. I'm going down the street and at some really trashy food stall, a rather plain looking guy is explaining the latest public scandal to this business type woman and she eventually commented something along the lines of "well you know what man on the street would say, if I were in their shoes (of those in power), I would've done the same".

 

First, I was quite pleasantly surprised of the fact that that was recorded for some random pedestrians, even though it is rather lost in bombardment of commercials on screens everywhere, these kind of things are quite heavily featured. For example, right after first mission when you're on elevator to your apartment, there was a discussion between Catholic priest, a "doctor" and the show host. The elevator stopped long ago, while I was still there, captivated, following the discussion towards its ridiculous conclusion.

 

Secondly, an acquaintance also said something like that a couple of years ago. Needless to say, I reevaluate who I am associated with but it also concerned me greatly that a highly educated person entertains such destructive ideas. Was it not said in 1 Kings 3,1-15?

Quote

     On one occasion he went to Gibeon to offer sacrifices because that was where the most famous altar was. He had offered hundreds of burnt offerings there in the past. That night the Lord appeared to him in a dream and asked him, “What would you like me to give you?”
     Solomon answered, “You always showed great love for my father David, your servant, and he was good, loyal, and honest in his relation with you. And you have continued to show him your great and constant love by giving him a son who today rules in his place. O Lord God, you have let me succeed my father as king, even though I am very young and don't know how to rule. Here I am among the people you have chosen to be your own, a people who are so many that they cannot be counted. So give me the wisdom I need to rule your people with justice and to know the difference between good and evil. Otherwise, how would I ever be able to rule this great people of yours?”
     The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this, and so he said to him, “Because you have asked for the wisdom to rule justly, instead of long life for yourself or riches or the death of your enemies, I will do what you have asked. I will give you more wisdom and understanding than anyone has ever had before or will ever have again. I will also give you what you have not asked for: all your life you will have wealth and honor, more than that of any other king. And if you obey me and keep my laws and commands, as your father David did, I will give you a long life.”

 

All "barriers" were removed long ago, we practically have no morals left, art made sure of that. Working man has no money to spend on products he doesn't need either, while the latest special edition Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini is sold out even before it is released. Perhaps it is time for art to start doing what it is really supposed to do. I wonder if anyone will ever take a gamble and ask questions that truly put ones or companies' values to the test in form of a medium we love around here that is video games, instead being stuck-on-stupid, easy, woke, versus territories that only serve to occupy the masses, seed hate and prolong or even degrade status quo.

 

[Janez 530]

New Edgerunners update is out and some info about Phantom Liberty expansion coming in 2023 for anyone interested.