Thermopylae assault - change vehicle?

[_angus_ 2]

I'm fighting my way through the strongpoints on Thermopylae, but I'm a bit confused. Am I able to change vehicle? How do I exit my Walrus?

I'm having to basically lead the assault from the front, while the other guys follow along behind me, and I'm finding it difficult not least as I'm running out of ammunition. :)

By the way, is there an approved method of using the HEAT against enemy Walruses? Sometimes I pound them with several direct hits and they don't seem to care. Other times, a seemingly near miss sends them into a blazing inferno.

[species1571 64]

Yes, you can change into one of the other friendly walruses. If I remember correctly, you have to approach them with your own walrus and press F when the use icon appears. It took me a while to realise this, and I only discovered it by accident.

As for HEAT, I have no idea, I have never used it.

[_angus_ 2]

Thanks Species, that makes me feel slightly less stupid. :)

Possible spoiler approaching:

Well, with that information things proceeded well and I completed the Campaign mission. But am I right in thinking that however well you perform the victory comes at a price?

[species1571 64]

Yes, there's only an unhappy ending and a very unhappy ending. I've only seen the very unhappy ending so far.

[mooman7777 1]

how do you get either ending? I never even got a cut scene...

[scrapser 11]

How did you succeed with the islands after Fulcrum? I can't seem to figure out where the balance is now. Everything has difficulty off the scale (islands and units alike). Maybe I'm playing it wrong. I used to play the original which had a strategy of depriving the enemy of as many islands as possible to slow him down. I either can't attack an island for lack of special equipment or face enemies superior in number and weapons so I just get shredded. And if the enemy carrier shows up...no escape.

[species1571 64]

What do you mean by figuring out the balance?

I've given this advice before, but even after Fulcrum, the game is not about dominating all the islands, it is about advancing the story. You are looking for a couple of pieces of tech which are somewhere among the islands. As long as you are hacking the two buildings on each island (one research and one other, I believe it is the research centre that is key), you should only have to visit each island once. It doesn't matter if the enemy steals it back, just as long as you keep hold of enough of a cupply chain to make your fuel and items. If you want a game that's more about dominating the islands, the strategy game is more fun.

If you are having trouble with the difficulty of islands, take a look at your tactics and fittings. I find mantas with laser, rockets, shield and armor mk II is my favourite setup and if you alternate between control of each one, this works best. Have 3 sitting at a safe spot on standby, take one manta in around the edges of the island, picking off those turrets with carefully aimed rockets until they run out. If it gets too hot or you run out of rockets, afterburn yourself out of trouble, dock and re-arm. Move the next manta in and gradually eliminate the island defences and stations. Rinse and repeat until you can safely move a walrus in and take the island.

[scrapser 11]

What do you mean by figuring out the balance?

I've given this advice before, but even after Fulcrum, the game is not about dominating all the islands, it is about advancing the story. You are looking for a couple of pieces of tech which are somewhere among the islands. As long as you are hacking the two buildings on each island (one research and one other, I believe it is the research centre that is key), you should only have to visit each island once. It doesn't matter if the enemy steals it back, just as long as you keep hold of enough of a cupply chain to make your fuel and items. If you want a game that's more about dominating the islands, the strategy game is more fun.

If you are having trouble with the difficulty of islands, take a look at your tactics and fittings. I find mantas with laser, rockets, shield and armor mk II is my favourite setup and if you alternate between control of each one, this works best. Have 3 sitting at a safe spot on standby, take one manta in around the edges of the island, picking off those turrets with carefully aimed rockets until they run out. If it gets too hot or you run out of rockets, afterburn yourself out of trouble, dock and re-arm. Move the next manta in and gradually eliminate the island defences and stations. Rinse and repeat until you can safely move a walrus in and take the island.

Thanks for the advice. I think I more or less confused island domination with the story of the campaign. I figured since the enemy carrier is now in the picture, the campaign was shifting to demonstrating the island domination play which is what makes up the strategy version of the game. Now things make more sense.

[scrapser 11]

Well, I just spent about 5 hours trying to make some headway on an island that will net me the marshland upgrade. All the enemy units and turrents (everything mostly) are armed with plasma guns that need only three shots to take out any of my vehicles. I can't get to the turrents or hangers (walruses yet to be faced...probably the same thing) for the Manta's and I can't take out the Manta's except by luring them close enough to the carrier to get some extra firepower. The command center is in the middle of the island. I took out one scrambler by sneaking over to the side of a hill in a Manta and fired over the gap to hit the top of the dome...the rest using the carrier guns. Boy, this is really hard! Oh, I took out the radar but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Must have restarted at least 20 times trying different things.

I don't have the heavy armor yet or advanced weapons. I barely have enough money to make one armor for each vehicle type, lasers for the Mantas, and a repair gun (seemed handy). I just got the blueprints for these things so I'm not lax in production. I was hoping to take out this island while they were being produced and ship them while I finish up and move to the marsh island. Can't seem to find what I need to do here. Nothing works so far.

[species1571 64]

What's the balance of your island types like? If your resource amount is constantly getting higher but production is slow, you need to convert more islands to factory. If your resources are constantly at 0, you need more resource islands. You can convert islands in the tactical map by going to the spanner tab in the island info box, but it does take time. Also, remember that any islands you have need to be chained together by a supply line to your stockpile island. If the line to your stockpile island is severed, those islands won't be doing anything and you should move your stockpile into the largest island chain. Your stockpile island also doubles up as an extra factory island, so ideally you should put your stockpile on an island that is not already a factory. The shield and armor mk II will make a big difference to your combat ability, especially on "Very Strong" and "Deadly" rated islands.

[scrapser 11]

Well after spending most of today capturing one island by trying different things (plus having to restart at least 2 dozen times) I think I'm starting to figure out how to chip away at the defenses. As far as keeping up a good pace maintaining islands AND doing this...it will take some time. I got to try out the hook and carried a walrus three times before my Manta got tangled up in a tree and started spinning around almost upside down before finally exploding. That's when I decided to call it a day.

This game is frustrating at the outset when you're more or less on your own. But I can see how gaining some skill eventually will make it a very rewarding game to play.

[Appogee 1]

It's possible to complete Thermpolae in the first Walrus you're assigned.

I've done it. But I had to save/die/reload quite a few times before I managed to get through.

[Suranis 1]

Remember that the defense islands increast the defense of every island linked to themthem. And 2 defense islands together will strengten one another. So look for weak Is;ands you can snap off.

Also if you want to temporarily break a link all you have to do is kill the pier on one island and all its links will break. So you can go to a defense island for a few minutes, plow up the pier and then sail off and that will weaken the Islands linked to it.

[hellR1de 1]

The shield and armor mk II will make a big difference to your combat ability, especially on "Very Strong" and "Deadly" rated islands.

Sorry if I bring back an old thread, but I haven't found any "shield" upgrade for the Mantas and I'm pretty sure I searched all the islands. Since I'm preparing to attack Thermopylae, I find this potential upgrade most interesting. :) Where can it be found?

[species1571 64]

Are you playing the campaign? If so, are you hacking the research facilities on each island? Also, I'm not sure, but I think that islands you captured before that have been re-taken by the enemy have a chance of different blueprints the next time you do them.

[hellR1de 1]

Are you playing the campaign? If so, are you hacking the research facilities on each island? Also, I'm not sure, but I think that islands you captured before that have been re-taken by the enemy have a chance of different blueprints the next time you do them.

Thanks Species. Yes and Yes. ;) As for retaking lost islands, it happened to me only once, so far. I'll be sure to check that!

[hellR1de 1]

Just checked back a few islands and so far, I always get the "blueprint already exists in our database" notification. To be honest, I don't think I'm in the mood to go through all other islands to find that shield upgrade, especially with the enemy carrier attacking (and most often taking back) my islands during that time.

Would you say that that upgrade is essential to the success of the Thermopylae assault? So far, I have every other upgrades, including HEAT, Howitzer -- is it any good by the way? The damage indicator sure says so! --, the Plasma (Walruses), Laser MK II and rockets. The only ones I am missing it seems are :

• Shield
  
• Missiles
  
• Plasma (Mantas)
  

Is it achievable without these three, or am doomed to go through all islands again? For the missing ones, I assume that they are normally found "post-Fulcrum"? :confused: Thanks again.

[species1571 64]

I only completed the campaign one time, so I can't say for sure. I think when it comes to the Thermopylae assault, you don't get to configure your manta, so it won't make a difference in that particular part. In general though, shield will make a big difference to your progress, especially on higher rated islands, as you don't take damage immediately. You can use cover until the shield is back up, then pop out and take a few shots while taking hits without damaging you. Manta missiles are very useful, too, as you can take out targets from behind cover.

[hellR1de 1]

Thanks again Species. If I could at least know where the missing blueprints are, it would help me a lot. I suppose you don't have a list up your sleeve... :p I found a kind of list by searching info regarding the achievement received for obtaining all blueprints, but according to that, the missile blueprint should have been in Sanctuary and the shield one, in Duessa. I went to both and already had another blueprint for the former, and the Walrus plasma for the latter. So either that list I found wasn't accurate, or the blueprints are randomly placed. Maybe someone from BI could confirm?

[species1571 64]

I thought the locations were randomly generated, but I don't know.

Deadly Islands mod has a function for unlocking all blueprints, if you want to give it a go. Load into your game with the mod running, enable the unlock all blueprints function by setting the required islands to zero, warp to another island (or just load your last save again). At this point you should see that the items are now producable. You can then save and exit and load the game without the mod if you don't want to continue using it, the items should still be unlocked.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Species1571

[hellR1de 1]

Wiiiiiiil Do! Thanks. :cool:

[azrapse 10]

If you are talking about the Thermopylae mission during the campaign, as far as I know, you cannot configure the walruses or mantas you get to play with. They are given preconfigured. So the blueprints you have bear no relevance at all towards your chance to succeed at that mission.

I found that mission the most challenging in the whole game, even more than the manta chase later on.

In that mission you are followed by some allied walruses with different weapon setup. Make sure that you don't lose them needlessly because you will need them later on.

In particular, the mission seemed to bug a little bit for me every time I was told they were sending a "repair gun" walrus. It took usually forever, and it was dropped way behind from where I was already. It was so far away that it didn't follow me, so I had to backtrack and get close to it, so that the AI would pick up my trail, or something, and start following me.

The repair walrus is most important to the success of the mission. It keeps you going and you will need strong anti-air, and strong anti-tank firepower in the later stages of the mission, near the command center.

Make pauses to repair all your walruses, but not for too long! The mission has a timer that even carries on past checkpoints! After losing, the game might reload a checkpoint where you already have zero chance to win because there is too little time left. Or you have lost too many walruses and have no chance to survive the final showdown at the command center area. If you see that you cannot really win, reload from a previous checkpoint.

I really had a love/hate relationship with this mission. I loved it because it reminded me a lot to the oldschool style of gaming, where you can actually lose (gasp!) and have to restart and redo the whole mission. By the time you beat it, you have improved so much as a player that the strategic mode's combats are a piece of cake. This punishing but rewarding gameplay reminded me a lot to my other all time favourite game, TIE-Fighter.

I hated it because it's probably the buggiest mission in the game. The pathing problems, while tolerable in the rest of the game, here they show their ugliest face. Thermopylae has a lot of problems with pathing through and near bridges. Also, walruses happily get stuck on the roadsides, so I had to leave my vehicle, walk all the way there and board the stuck one to drive it out of the hole with lava it had got into. This with the clock ticking down.

Also, by the end of the mission, you reach the command center that is protected by an energy shield. Well, all my walruses (except the one I was driving) happily charged against the shield and blew to pieces, offering zero help in the final combat... Luckily I won with probably 1% health left and in flames.

[hellR1de 1]

hahaha. That's a nice war tale, really. Makes me eager to jump into it! Thanks for all the info. I'll put it to good use.

Regarding pathfinding, did you play this mission prior to patch 1.6.0004? Because I think they did a good job with that. Unfortunately, 1.6.0011 seems to have brought a bit of regression, as I find walruses still stuck, from time to time.

To be honest, I wasn't really ready for Thermopylae yet. I'm currently at the four islands surrounding it. So as for my missing blueprints, is it possible to obtain some on those four islands? I may currently be going in circles for nothing... Besides, I might not need them, depending on those islands' difficulty level.

If you like games that will bring you in such love/hate states, you should try XCOM: Enemy Unknown. Quite rewarding, while punitive at the same time :p

Edited September 18, 2013 by hellR1de

[azrapse 10]

I think I played it with 0011. There were definitely some pathing problems there. Not all the time or everywhere. It's particular places. It's totally clear to me that the pathing issues doesn't reside on the walrus AI, but on the maps themselves. I guess they use some kind of Google Maps-like topographical information that lists the data about inclination of the ground, presence of a road, obstacles to avoid, connections between the ground and bridges, etc... and the walruses use this to blindly drive around. They don't seem to look out of the window and see that they are going to drive off the bridge; instead they just follow their topographical map to the letter. So someone has to go and fix these maps.

I have not tried XCOM: EU. I tried, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, the fist XCOM in MSDOS. I found the interface too clumsy, and it took me well 15 minutes to get my six guys out of their ship, just to die immediately afterwards because some alien hidden in the other end of the world sniped at them with some bad ass weapon.

I guess my skin was much thinner back then, and that lead me to exit the game and chant the magic words

cd..

deltree /y xcom

...and never looked back. :P

Maybe it's time to give it another chance.

[scrapser 11]

On the campaign version of that island mission, once you get to where the repair vehicle is dropped...wait for it. Your walrus will probably need repair anyway and as soon as you are topped off start heading to the next section. You should have 5 walruses following you. If you practice a bit you can run a bit ahead of them and engage enemy targets and they will catch up in time to finish off the rest of the enemy. You can also jump from your walrus to any other by driving up to it and hitting the "F" key. But I still like the one with the heat rounds. They are very effective in battle if you have good aim. There are some other tactics but I will not spoil the fun of learning.

For me the Manta chase is extremely difficult. I have yet to come up with a good tactic other than fly high and shoot down to avoid the bubble bombs Shin keeps dropping behind. Problem is it takes forever to knock out his shield if not shooting really close.