Euro is turning people into nazi's :)

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

They once again managed to make Denmark look like a bunch of Racists... Its actually starting to be hillarious, and im starting to believe in a "minor race"... The media vs the rest of the world.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 07 2002,22:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AAIIIii

this thread moves too fast

yes

but it should be open for all militaries.... so if people with penis envy want to post pictures of abnormally large weapons they can do it all in one place.

Or

"-What about a war between 100 Grizzly bears, China, 100,000 pakistani troops , and an M1a2 with a veteran crew?'

-'ahh the M1a2 would wupp 'em"

or arguments about grains and calibres, 'penetration statistics' and who won WW2

heck why dont we just.....never mind

yes  i propose that there should be an 'all the the worlds militaries' thread.....<span id='postcolor'>

european armies only would be cool

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 07 2002,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ July 07 2002,21:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">baaaaaaaaahhhhh

jus an idea , why not making a sticky thread abotu european military ??<span id='postcolor'>

I'm for that! Get rid of "why did you use your username?"<span id='postcolor'>

Good idea

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ July 07 2002,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 07 2002,225)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AAIIIii

this thread moves too fast

yes

but it should be open for all militaries.... so if people with penis envy want to post pictures of abnormally large weapons they can do it all in one place.

Or

"-What about a war between 100 Grizzly bears, China, 100,000 pakistani troops , and an M1a2 with a veteran crew?'

-'ahh the M1a2 would wupp 'em"

or arguments about grains and calibres, 'penetration statistics' and who won WW2

heck why dont we just.....never mind

yes  i propose that there should be an 'all the the worlds militaries' thread.....<span id='postcolor'>

european armies only would be cool<span id='postcolor'>

I agree, though its a bit unfair.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ July 07 2002,22:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They once again managed to make Denmark look like a bunch of Racists... Its actually starting to be hillarious, and im starting to believe in a "minor race"... The media vs the rest of the world.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, your new immigration laws leave much to be desired. Not to say that Dansk Folkeparti is openly racist and is in your parliament.

As for a sticky military thread... how shall I put it ... um.. no.

[ran 0]

bbbbbaaaaaah we already know almost everything about us and russian equipement , why not :

europe (not only eu)

third world

america and russia

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

but then thered have to be a North American military only and others

anyway it would probably be europeans mostly anyway and so you could encourage the >highly original< step of getting all the scandinvians to cruelly gang up on the americans and insult them for being fat and led by an idiot and inventing Macdonalds and Jerry Springer and causing the North pole to melt and nuking Japan until they leave in disgust

[Guest]

This entire offtopic forum is supposed to be about military conflicts, hardware etc. Yet the topic seldom comes up. There is no need for an exclusive thread. If you have some military stuff you would like to discuss, please feel free to just post them in the forum

[ran 0]

ah also about the felin .. there's also a Feline program , the women don't have the same forms as the guys so , the body armor has to be designed especially for them , the Feline version is also lighter (lucky bitches)

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

GGRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Ok thats it

EVERBODY STOP POSTING UNTIL I HAVE FINISHED MY LATEST POST!

or else it makes me look like a fool ( i know i know it seems impossible )

evertime i post something in this thread someone else has got there first

gRGRRGRGRGRGr

(and i now suck at counter strke )

(actually that may be a good thing)

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ July 07 2002,19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 07 2002,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry Ran to say this but this time it was especially the french that boykotted the war against Jugoslawia due to their very old relation with the Serb-people. Do you think that would have happened if the USA would have been there instead of the dutch? I doubt it!<span id='postcolor'>

THE FRANCE BOYCOTTED THE WAR IN YOUGOSLAVIA <!--emo&???

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN SEBRENICA ??

the french generals and various chief at the head of the un administration of this region have given their authorisation to the support strikes , the only one who has fucked up was a foreign general by not accepting air support demands , and this general was ........ DUTCH

the dutch forces did as best as they could , some of the men of the dutch contingent have been killed , but somebody in the high commandement fucked up , french can't be in any case be taken as responsibles

the relations with serb people are now history , and this since 1993 and the first french intervention in this mess<span id='postcolor'>

Ops, sorry but it was also a french General that did not permit air-atacks when the dutch asked for it. Second day in the morning in was too cloudy. 2 hours later the General said that the request for the air-strike has been filled out on the wrong sheet. 4 More hours later two planes come along and drop ridiculous 2 bombs on the ring of the Jugoslaw army around the city of Srebreniza. Well...

I agree, boycott is too harsh and I dont want to imply the general didnt want to attack, but there have been many mistakes on many sides! THe major one was the LACK OF DETERMINATION, something we can learn from the US (in reasonable portions of course)

Damm, why do my posting never sound as smart as the ones from Denoir? I always hated people that write better essays than me, so I basically hated the whole class! )

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 08 2002,01:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ops, sorry but it was also a french General that did not permit air-atacks when the dutch asked for it. Second day in the morning in was too cloudy. 2 hours later the General said that the request for the air-strike has been filled out on the wrong sheet. 4 More hours later two planes come along and drop ridiculous 2 bombs on the ring of the Jugoslaw army around the city of Srebreniza. Well... <span id='postcolor'>

5 LETTERS

DUTCH

these dumbasses filled an air strike demands and not a close air suport one , mainly because of the dutch general's mistake

anyway , i wasn't there , were you ?

what are your sources about this accident ? do you know what really happened ? do you know how did the dutch to loose some men ? do you know why their tow launcher was fucked ? do you know why didn't have any heavy weapons ?

i don't

it's certainly because of some big fuck ups on the UN side , maybe including french errors , but i'm sure that during the action ? no french has been involved in the turn the events have taken , i'm maybe wrong , so maybe are you

[Paratrooper 0]

Mulit-national military ventures have been like this since WWII.

One of my grandfathers was an officer on the advance into Axis Europe; he said that the only thing more dangerous than the Germans infront was the Americans behind. They often thought that different uniforms were enemy troops.

Military experience is always good for armys, this is often lacking in Europe, like the Dutch and Germans. The answer has come in the form of areas of responsibility like in Kosovo.

Military blunders are part of war, in Yugoslavia and everywhere else. (Especialy if American bombers are around j/k of course )

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ July 08 2002,01:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5 LETTERS

DUTCH

these dumbasses filled an air strike demands and not a close air suport one , mainly because of the dutch general's mistake

anyway , i wasn't there  , were you ?

what are your sources about this accident ? do you know what really happened ? do you know how did the dutch to loose some men ? do you know why their tow launcher was fucked ? do you know why didn't have any heavy weapons ?<span id='postcolor'>

My source is a 2 hour documentory I watched jesterday on Phoenix, which was based on information-material from the UN tribunal and and interview with Mr. Akashi himself

Europe's worst atrocity since the Second World War was committed in July 1995

In the summer of 1995, two years after it was designated a United Nations Safe Area, the Bosnian town of Srebrenica became the scene of the worst massacre in the Bosnian war. This is an account of the critical days leading up to the killings:

6-8 July 1995

Bosnian Serb forces had laid siege to the Srebrenica enclave, where tens of thousands of civilians had taken refuge from earlier Serb offensives in north-eastern Bosnia. They were under the protection of about 600 lightly armed Dutch infantry forces. Fuel was running out and no fresh food had been brought into the enclave since May.  

Serb forces began shelling Srebrenica. Bosnian Muslim fighters in the town asked for the return of weapons they had surrendered to the peacekeepers but their request was refused. The Dutch commander called UN Headquarters in Sarajevo asking for "close air support" after shells and rockets landed close to refugee centres and observation posts manned by peacekeepers.

9 July 1995

The Bosnian Serbs stepped up their shelling and thousands of refugees fled to the town from southern camps ahead of advancing Serbs, who attacked Dutch observation posts, taking about 30 soldiers hostage.

Srebrenica facts  

Muslim enclave in Serb-held territory: 1991 Population /75% Muslim / 25% Serb

Declared safe area in April 1993  

UN commander Morillon arrived in March 1993 and said: "I will never abandon you"  

Serb offensive  

Bosnian Serb army and paramilitaries massed in April 1995 including:

Drina Wolves

Seselj's Chetniks

Arkan's Tigers  

One peacekeeper was fatally wounded when Bosnian Muslims fired on retreating Dutch troops.

10 July 1995

Dutch Commander Colonel Karremans filed a request for UN air support after the Bosnian Serbs shelled Dutch positions. UN Commander General Janvier initially refused, but agreed after another request from the colonel. Serb attacks stopped before the planes arrived and strikes were postponed.

Some 4,000 refugees were in the town by the evening and there was panic on the streets. Large crowds were gathered around the Dutch positions.

The Dutch commander told town leaders that Nato planes would launch massive air attacks against the Serbs if they had not withdrawn from the safe area by 0600 the following morning.

11 July 1995

The Serb forces did not withdraw, but at 0900 Colonel Karremans received word from Sarajevo that his request for close air support had been submitted on the wrong form. At 1030, the re-submitted request reached General Janvier, but Nato planes had to return to base in Italy to refuel after being airborne since 0600.  

UN air power was unable to save the safe area

By midday, more than 20,000 refugees - mostly women, children and the infirm - fled to the main Dutch base at Potocari.

At 1430, two Dutch F-16 Fighters dropped two bombs on Serb positions surrounding Srebrenica. The Serbs responded with a threat to kill their Dutch hostages and shell refugees, causing the suspension of further strikes.

The Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic entered Srebrenica two hours later, accompanied by Serb camera crews. In the evening, General Mladic summoned Colonel Karremans to a meeting at which he delivered an ultimatum that the Muslims must hand over their weapons to guarantee their lives.

12 July 1995

Buses arrived to take women and children to Muslim territory, while the Serbs begin separating out all men from age 12 to 77 for "interrogation for suspected war crimes".  

Mladic: Offered Muslims freedom if they surrendered arms

It is estimated that 23,000 women and children were deported in the next 30 hours. Hundreds of men were held in trucks and warehouses.

About 15,000 Bosnian Muslim fighters had attempted to escape from Srebrenica overnight and were shelled as they fled through the mountains.

13 July 1995

The first killings of unarmed Muslims took place in a warehouse in the nearby village of Kravica.

Peacekeepers handed over about 5,000 Muslims who had been sheltering at the Dutch base at Potocari. In return, the Bosnian Serbs released 14 Dutch peacekeepers who had been held at the Nova Kasaba base.

16 July 1995

Early reports of massacres emerged as the first survivors of the long march from Srebrenica began to arrive in Muslim-held territory.

Following negotiations between the UN and the Bosnian Serbs, the Dutch were at last permitted to leave Srebrenica, leaving behind weapons, food and medical supplies.

In the five days after Bosnian Serb forces overran Srebrenica, more than 7,000 Muslim men are thought to have been killed.

Now this is from the BBC-NEWS net so it is written in a very "cool" way. But I can show you other

"The reason for the fall of Srebrenica is to be found in the lack of strong political will to intervene - by France, Britain, the United States and the Bosnian authorities in Sarajevo themselves," the report concluded. It said a French commander, General Bernard Janvier, committed a "manifest error of judgment" by refusing to sanction air strikes against Serbs to stop them taking control of Srebrenica, but said no evidence had been found that he had deliberately helped them.

At the time, Gen Janvier's reluctance to use air power brought him into conflict with the British commander of United Nations forces in Bosnia, General Rupert Smith. Gen Smith, who was in favour of taking a much tougher line with the Serbs, was so furious after being overruled by the UN special representative to the region, Yasushi Akashi, that he took a leave of absence.

The internet is full with this stuff! I dont hold the french fully responsible for it, but they take a certain share in this error, one which did cost several THOUSAND lives.

[Guest]

I wouldn't blame the French or the Dutch or any nation i specific. The blame falls on the entire UN. The problem is that from day one, with the JNA (Yugoslav People's Army) attack on Slovenia, the attitude of the UN (and the world as such) was "This is a civil war. All parties are equally guilty and we must not take sides". Actually that was already phase two. Phase one was that the world wanted Yugoslavia to remain as a country. Everybody expected JNA to crush the freedom movements in the republic.

Even during the war in Croatia when it became very obvious who the agressor was, the world kept repeating that it was a civil war where all parties are equally guilty. It was first with Kosovo, when the Americans finally got around to do something that the whole attitude changed. Suddenly the Serbs were the bad guys and Milosevic a monster.

[ran 0]

hmmm ...... but it wasn't a french fuck up only

one of the goal of the UN is to protect endangered populations

people in sebrenica were of those

since the town was full of muslims , it was a perfect target for the serbs , so , why only 600 light armed dutchs ??

[Shabadu 0]

People seem to think that we're afraid of a united europe. Far from it, I HATE the idea of a united europe, as do most people I know, not fear it. The main problem is that most european countries, shit most countrys full stop, don't like Britain. Going right back through history no-one liked us, mostly because we went around taking over and imposing our will on everyone, the Americans have filled this void. This probably isn't the only reason but is most likely a huge part of it. The french still refuse to buy our beef, which is against european law by the way.

The trouble with a united europe is that Britain would lose it's identity as we will all become 'European'. Not something an of us want to see. Except perhaps for those middle-class New Labour types. They don't care what country they live in so long as they can live their middle-class lifestyles. We've already seen a huge proportion of our population lose their sense of pride for their country, why should we then see our entire way of life destroyed to please a bunch of up-their-arse middle-class types?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ July 08 2002,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People seem to think that we're afraid of a united europe. Far from it, I HATE the idea of a united europe, as do most people I know, not fear it. The main problem is that most european countries, shit most countrys full stop, don't like Britain. Going right back through history no-one liked us, mostly because we went around taking over and imposing our will on everyone, the Americans have filled this void. This probably isn't the only reason but is most likely a huge part of it. The french still refuse to buy our beef, which is against european law by the way.

The trouble with a united europe is that Britain would lose it's identity as we will all become 'European'. Not something an of us want to see. Except perhaps for those middle-class New Labour types. They don't care what country they live in so long as they can live their middle-class lifestyles. We've already seen a huge proportion of our population lose their sense of pride for their country, why should we then see our entire way of life destroyed to please a bunch of up-their-arse middle-class types?<span id='postcolor'>

Seriously, Shabadu, what you are saying there may sound slightly silly to other europeans. "Hating" you? What the hell are you talking about. "Hating" and "national pride" are silly lowest "working class" expressions. We are not talking about national identity here we are talking about "bread for living"! You are not selling your english soul when participating in a european community. How can a nation that has travelled the whole world be so afraid now of what surrounds them? Turning from an adventurous risktaking nation to a defensive even isolative one?

Medium intelligent people in Europe dont hate english people, because you are not to blame for what has happened in the past. On the other hand you have also no direct reason to be proud of the glorious milestones in the british past (pride is important though to make sure something glorious doesnt get forgotten, that is for sure)!

So where are the achievements of your generation? I have to admit I havent seen one! Or do you always want to talk about your grandfather and your grand grandfather, like little schoolchildren always show off with their elderly brothers?

I am proud that my generation is the one uniting europe whereas the generation of my grandfather was the one destroying it. Now who will have the reason to be proud? And this pride will not be covered with dust of the past since this european cooperation will be taking place in my lifetime.

Dont you people take any challenges anymore? Of course a lot of things can go wrong with the european union. But if not too much turns out to be wrong it will be "best" solution for our future. If you say there are too many risks involved, do your share to minimise those!

The first one would be to take a look around in europe and get an authentic impression of what people really think about england. Cause I think the biggest but most ridiculous risk right now is the ignorant stuff we heard from our grandparents about the "krauts" and "frenchies"! If this is stuck in your brain then you really must thing the european union is the new german way of conquering the world and my name is Adolf!

[Longinius 1]

I can't resist...

"ah also about the felin .. there's also a Feline program , the women don't have the same forms as the guys so , the body armor has to be designed especially for them , the Feline version is also lighter (lucky bitches) "

There is a program for cats? Cats with armor? And where does lucky female dogs fit into it? I am so confused...

[Shabadu 0]

Hmm, I don't think I'm getting the right message across. I appreciate that most medium intellectual europeans hold no grudges with us. Indeed the same goes for medium intellectual British. But in what country is the rational medium intellctual actually in control. I mean look at the US, most average Americans are probably very nice people, but then you have a lunatic like Bush in charge.

Same goes for Britain, we have Blair and legions of middle-class arseholes. We need sensible people in charge doing sensible things like running countries. Rather than going around looking at how we can merge into a power to rival the US we should instead look to creating a solid, balanced country. This won't happen if you jump feet first into a united europe. Britain is in terrible shape because since blair got in he's done quite literally nothing. The NHS got a cash injection which seems to have been forgotten about, but nothing was done to see that it was administrated properly.

Due to Blairs lack of ability to anything at home we have slowly been falling apart, unless we get our act together we'll end up like Russia ( I really feel sorry for those guys). So to disguise the fact that he's done nothing he goes around the world trying to look busy and saving the world from international terrorism etc...YAWN.

If we had a country which we could say had no issues to be dealt with then it would most likely make sense to join a united europe, with the strength and safety to pull out if it all goes pear shaped. Preferably without losing the pound.

I'm going to Spain soon and it won't be the same without the pesetas.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 08 2002,15:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can't resist...

"ah also about the felin .. there's also a Feline program , the women don't have the same forms as the guys so , the body armor has to be designed especially for them , the Feline version is also lighter (lucky bitches) "

There is a program for cats? Cats with armor? And where does lucky female dogs fit into it? I am so confused... <span id='postcolor'>

LOL

Felin and Feline = name of the program

FELIN = Fantassin ŕ Equipement et Liaison Intégrées

the -e of feline is only here to signal that it is a version for women

these combat gears are worn by humans

felin's future weapon :

it is the equivalent of the OICW

the PAPOP , ok the acronym is ridiculous

(it signifys Poly Arme POly Projectile)

Weapon: PAPOP Weapon System

Description: Similar in concept to the American OICW, the PAPOP is a two part weapon system consisting of a 5.56mm rifle unit and a 35mm  grenade launcher.  The grenade launcher feeds through a three round tubular magazine, and grenades can be set to either a standard burst or a proximity fused lateral burst pattern, allowing limited capability against targets in foxholes and the like.  A special gas venting system prevents injury to the user when firing the grenade launcher. In addition, the weapon has a video sight mounted on the business end with a small adjustable LCD screen on the back, allowing a soldier to look around corners and even fire the rifle unit without exposing himself.

5.56 mm rifle unit

ROF: 5 (speculative)

Recoil: 2/4

Mag: 25 box 5.56x45 mm NATO (same magazines as FAMAS, capacity speculative)

Dam: 3

Pen: 1-nil

Range: 55m

also envisaged :

- subcalibred Projectile with detachable sabot

- initial Speed: 1500 to 1800 m/s

- Charger of 40 cartridges.

35 mm grenade launcher

ROF: SA

Mag: 3 internal

Dam: C:3 B:12 HE and HEDP

Pen: nil for HE, 4C for HEDP

Range: 150m

IFR: 600m

Bulk: 5

Weight: 5.5 Kg (speculative)

Cost: $3500 (R/-)

35 mm ammunition statistics

Weight: 0.2 Kg per round

Cost: $10 per round HE, $15 per round HEDP

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1700/1731.htm

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Albert Schweizer-

"How can a nation that has travelled the whole world be so afraid now of what surrounds them? Turning from an adventurous risktaking nation to a defensive even isolative one?"

This is nothing new. People of the British isles have always been wary of European 'adventures' (since the middle ages anyway) and much more comfortable with more distant shores,

as is witnessed by the way as opposed to the mostly land locked Germans the ancestors of my nation looked beyond europe for trade and these 'adventures' you speak of.

We are a little island and there are over 300 million of you on the continent and only 60 million of us.

Of course we (all european nations) should trade very extensively and endeavour to keep good relations etc of course we should cooperate with shared(international) business contracts etc whenever it is our mutual interests to do so...

but that does not mean it is right for us to have a shared constitution ,

be dictated to by foreign politicians (with only a minority from our own nationality voting) and rules and regulations of non British origin

or be taxed by a foreign and essentially unaccountable power

(so called 'tax harmonisation' )

we and our economies are too different for these things.

As Sadico has mentioned Spain still has much of the Franco gang on the payroll (+ spanish people i met in the south didnt exactly seem very hard working for their EU benefits)

Italy is still half ruled by the mafia (not least the 'Boss' Berlusconi)their government coalitions couldnt agree on the colour of the sky and the 'boss' owns most of the media

Germanies government is full of guilt ridden sandal wearing peaceniks ,everything is absurdly over regulated and they want the rest of the EU to be federalised and the same

The French political elite think they are a superpower and want to use the EU to dominate everyone else

Belgium needs the EU to feel important in the world and is full of small beer glasses and entrenched paedophilia

and its funny policemen

These are the nations whos politicians we should submit a large portion of our sovereignty to ?

Well i say not without certain fundamental safeguards that currently do not exist, not without massive overhaul of the current EU system (in which the people seem to serve the pampered politicians)

Not without the purpose, content and legal authority/ accountability of the Executive and Legislature being more clearly defined and designed.

(at the moment it seems like a very ad hoc politicians club- and that aint good enough by a long shot)

etc etc etc (i can go on if you wish)

"So where are the achievements of your generation? I have to admit I havent seen one! Or do you always want to talk about your grandfather and your grand grandfather, like little schoolchildren always show off with their elderly brothers?"

Yes its true, since 1945 absolutly nothing at all has been acheived by anyone who is British

(now would you like me to list British inventions/inovations/advances since 1945? 1970? or even 1980? because i assure you i could crash forum with examples  )

Most people in this country are perfectly aware that the future is where you spend the rest of your life which is perhaps why they are wary of irrevocably commiting their country to a international economic and political system that is highly experimental and carries a mssive quantity of unforseeable risks (though also potential benefits)

The 'wait and see' outlook would seem to me to be the most intelligent, rational and forward looking.

"Medium intelligent people in Europe dont hate english people, because you are not to blame for what has happened in the past"

What happened in the past- like resisting nazism?

Or do you mean the occasionaly questionable treatment of people in British colonies so unlike the kindness showed by the German Kaiser to the Tanganyikans in the Maji Maji rebellion of 1905?

Of course the British are the only ones with imperial histories for liberals to wet themselves over,

Not the Dutch , Or Belgium or the French, Germans, Spanish, Portugese, Austro-Hungary, Turks blah blahblahblah

ran-....it looks like a slab of wood  (the weapon)

good camoflage  

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 08 2002,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Albert Schweizer-

"How can a nation that has travelled the whole world be so afraid now of what surrounds them? Turning from an adventurous risktaking nation to a defensive even isolative one?"

This is nothing new. People of the British isles have always been wary of European 'adventures' (since the middle ages anyway) and much more comfortable with more distant shores,

as is witnessed by the way as opposed to the mostly land locked Germans the ancestors of my nation looked beyond europe for trade and these 'adventures' you speak of.

We are a little island and there are over 300 million of you on the continent and only 60 million of us.

Of course we (all european nations) should trade very extensively and endeavour to keep good relations etc of course we should cooperate with shared(international) business contracts etc whenever it is our mutual interests to do so...

but that does not mean it is right for us to have a shared constitution ,

be dictated to by foreign politicians (with only a minority from our own nationality voting) and rules and regulations of non British origin

or be taxed by a foreign and essentially unaccountable power

(so called 'tax harmonisation' )

we and our economies are too different for these things.

As Sadico has mentioned Spain still has much of the Franco gang on the payroll (+ spanish people i met in the south didnt exactly seem very hard working for their EU benefits)

Italy is still half ruled by the mafia (not least the 'Boss' Berlusconi)their government coalitions couldnt agree on the colour of the sky and the 'boss' owns most of the media

Germanies government is full of guilt ridden sandal wearing peaceniks ,everything is absurdly over regulated and they want the rest of the EU to be federalised and the same

The French political elite think they are a superpower and want to use the EU to dominate everyone else

Belgium needs the EU to feel important in the world and is full of small beer glasses and entrenched paedophilia

and its funny policemen

These are the nations whos politicians we should submit a large portion of our sovereignty to ?

Well i say not without certain fundamental safeguards that currently do not exist, not without massive overhaul of the current EU system (in which the people seem to serve the pampered politicians)

Not without the purpose, content and legal authority/ accountability of the Executive and Legislature being more clearly defined and designed.

(at the moment it seems like a very ad hoc politicians club- and that aint good enough by a long shot)

etc etc etc (i can go on if you wish)

"So where are the achievements of your generation? I have to admit I havent seen one! Or do you always want to talk about your grandfather and your grand grandfather, like little schoolchildren always show off with their elderly brothers?"

Yes its true, since 1945 absolutly nothing at all has been acheived by anyone who is British

(now would you like me to list British inventions/inovations/advances since 1945? 1970? or even 1980? because i assure you i could crash forum with examples  )

Most people in this country are perfectly aware that the future is where you spend the rest of your life which is perhaps why they are wary of irrevocably commiting their country to a international economic and political system that is highly experimental and carries a mssive quantity of unforseeable risks (though also potential benefits)

The 'wait and see' outlook would seem to me to be the most intelligent, rational and forward looking.

"Medium intelligent people in Europe dont hate english people, because you are not to blame for what has happened in the past"

What happened in the past- like resisting nazism?

Or do you mean the occasionaly questionable treatment of people in British colonies so unlike the kindness showed by the German Kaiser to the Tanganyikans in the Maji Maji rebellion of 1905?

Of course the British are the only ones with imperial histories for liberals to wet themselves over,

Not the Dutch , Or Belgium or the French, Germans, Spanish, Portugese, Austro-Hungary, Turks blah blahblahblah

ran-....it looks like a slab of wood  (the weapon)

good camoflage  <span id='postcolor'>

{Wipes tear from eye}

I'm speechless. Beautiful.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

From the title, this looks like the right thread for this; if not, its because I think this is about the funniest picture ever:

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 08 2002,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The French political elite think they are a superpower and want to use the EU to dominate everyone else

[...]

ran-....it looks like a slab of wood  (the weapon)

good camoflage  <span id='postcolor'>

BAAAAAHHHHHH B.S.

why do you think that of french politics ? they aren't even able to govern france correctly lol

about the gun :

i don't like it , i'd like the army to keep its good old plastic famas , about 3 generations of french soldiers used it , and now they want to replace it with this black box .. baaaahhhhh

the french centre-europe camo is one of the best .... for central europe lol