Sniper realism

[TheOmega 0]

For who like sniping, then put yourselves to the test. You can read more of it here. Download on 2nd post.

http://bojler.olomouc.com/cgi-bin....15;t=91

Briefly this is a SP mission qualification test for correct application of fieldcraft, tactics, decision making, concealment, observation, target identification and mildly... accuracy.

Fun is not an option,... unless u like that sort of thing. Just experience for yourself.

[Aculaud 0]

great exercise! I'm still playing around with it. Personally, i wouldnt pick such a highly populated area to hunt in, but i guess you never really pick your battles yourself

[Hidden 0]

What does the main target look like? AFAIK, snipers must know what it looks like i.r.l. I found a grave cross, but that wouldn´t be very appropriate for a target as I am not a nazi. I saw and shot 5 other targets before I was spotted (too much of my upper body sticking out of a bush and I missed one guy on patrol after noticing 3 other´s pattern nearby), one shot one kill all of them.

Cool "mission" but I would like to know what the main target looks like, is it one of the greys? I like it anyway.

I even spotted another sniper myself as he was crawling from one bush to another, and he never spotted me.

And oh.. sorry, but it really was fun! So to me, fun is an option  

Highly poplulated area? Well yes, but it´ll teach you to hide better and develop your situation awareness.

[TheOmega 0]

Nothing is by chance. Even uncertainty is made to purpose.

Well about the highly populated areas... no civies, but pop areas they are off limits... and like there is a story to every background the same applies. Read everything carefully, including the ROE.

At certain times real towns or their vicinity is leased for exercises... if u dont have large unpopulated areas to do it in. Even proxy towns are built for certain exercises. In time of war, civies would sympathize, support or... not. Not that they would have much to say. But for this one lets say the local authorities cooperate with the exercises in one way or another.

And yes u dont pick it, its given. If u want to qualify you have to deal with it. Complaining about it wont improve your situation,... so ruck it, or quit.

Each target have line of sight in accending difficulty. So the hardest targets to get at will only have 1 to 2 line of sight at a specific range. And the objective is not to hit all targets, but only one... that matters.

If u want to figure it out, if not already, i suggest learning some game theory principles.

Greed is also looked at. Rambo cowboys and sniper wannabes are dealt with. The test is for mission completion with minimal risk... and safe extraction. Survival of the fittest. And only a moderate simplification of that too.

About the grave cross, ... in the story also. Use some psychology. You just have to link that object to a instinctive thought, ... instead of politics. True stalk hunters have highly tuned primal instincts as well as a high sense of self preservation, among other things.

About your primary... in there too. Observation is the key, and knowing what to look for. Knowing what to look for... is also an asset. If u cant find it, then u dont have what it takes either. And uncertainty has to be dealt with:

1st- Information: u can gather this in the briefing, intel report and updated by "eyes on" direct field observation;

2nd- Analysis. After a more complete picture of the situation u can carry out a logical elimination process to identify your target. Rushing into it... has but one result;

3rd- Attention to detail. And of course u have to read carefully everything.

As its a demo and a game at that... i will let these pass through. But you will have to figure the rest yourselves, dont want to put spoilers for hasnt tried. And if u cannot qualify... they u simply dont have the mental stamina... or the basics. Can teach more about yourself than anyone can tell u... for a game.

It is made to make you think, and think correctly. For the lazy minded... again read carefully, it is all there in the briefing.

And if u have fun, as i said before... then u like that sort of thing.

Again true sniping its not about the killing... its about the hunt.

[Hidden 0]

Oh, I forgot the notes (not on purpose), read it all and it made more sense to me. Have not been sniping much in OFP, but the qualification test makes me want to try some sniper missions again.

Thanks for the info btw, appreciated!

[Aculaud 0]

I do have one gripe on this mission. If you kill any of the resistance guys on the training range, it breaks the ROE, but they can kill you no problem. I would think that in real life, a sniper would have the ability to kill anyone who he could varify as a threat. This would also help to conceal ones self; How can they find you if they're dead?

[TheOmega 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do have one gripe on this mission. If you kill any of the resistance guys on the training range, it breaks the ROE, but they can kill you no problem. I would think that in real life, a sniper would have the ability to kill anyone who he could varify as a threat. This would also help to conceal ones self; How can they find you if they're dead?<span id='postcolor'>

Hmm, good point. Although its also covered. You are trying to qualify to be a sniper. You are not one yet, and should not be hostilizing your superiors nor diminishing their ranks. Would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise.

The storyline is, fictional at one point or another, but it is meant to be part of a campaign and with an unfolding storyline, so somethings were left out. But the purpose is to test the objectives i stated. The others, think of it as in a need to know basis and you would not need to know. Assume everything... trust nothing= in the breif.

And you dont choose ROE either, its given. Its always easier in a field where u have all contacts as enemy. Rarely happens, so control and concealment is important. And if it was it would be pointless duck first person shooter, a way to play i find reguraly in MP. So it seems quite a few ppl online dont know how the basics of realistic play -although ive been finding a few getting on subject recently. (For that i have the "2v2 Hardcore Sniper" and for those others i have made a specific map i play once in a while, called "the Turkey shoot". So a section of 8 can hunt 2 snipers down. Of course its easy to think so, when you outgun and outnumber someone, but you can appreciate the truth of fire dicipline when outranged. Puts things in perspective again. Nobody seems to play as a team anyway, so its quite humbling for those big mouthed brats and loners out there.)

Anyway, you would give your position away. The field is being observed by your instructors, the aggressor team and the counter sniper team.

Any safety mishaps would terminate the exercise imediately, as in real life.

As to the counter sniper team, they would:

- have some unsaid grudge on the trainees attitudes;

- allowed to fire blanks which by some mystery where replaced by live rounds;

- you simply dont know.

Minor issues i had to insert to spice it up and keep you on yer toes, not the same thing when u realise you can be shot at.

Of course with the current engine, AI and what is available some things cannot be reproduced at this point or will never be...

And i feel u are looking for the easy way out. But thats the point isnt it,... those big timers would be sent off too. Hmm, this is still basic sniper training... not an advanced scout-sniper course exercise.

[Aculaud 0]

well, youre definitely trying to make a realistic sniper training course, hence the title "Sniper Realism", and i have to tell you that in real life, if i saw anyone who looked like an enemy, i would varify weather or not they were, and if they were, i WOULD promptly kill them!

[Jester983 0]

WOW. Thats a really tough mission. Very nice..

I do agree with aculuad though i think you should be able to shoot the resistance soldiers, but thats just part of the realism. Not the biggest deal just wish i could shoot em..

[Aculaud 0]

Question: How is NOT being able to shoot people part of the realism? they arent designated friendlys on account of the fact that they can and WILL shoot you, given the chance, so why wouldnt you be able to kill them?

[TheOmega 0]

Yes... well. It is training. You have a misconception that sniping is a shoot everybody free madman kind of thing. No such thing. Reality of the job is done within set rules: orders and ROE. Killing off the instructors and the aggressor team is not your mission, however inclined to do that you may be. If u cannot overcome adversity of this factor, then... well u must have experienced the feeling quite a few time on the exercise. Death is natures way of saying you've failed the course.

There aint no snipers POW's. If u are caught, and know to be one, you would be capped on the spot. That is real life for u. So in the exercise, dont get caught.

And the instructor sniper team is actually trying to miss within 5m. However sometimes they err... miss... accidents do happen once in a while. Unfortunately u have bad luck with accidents, they always happen to u.

And even if u could shoot back, there would be no one left to look for you. What a walk in the park that would be. And that is just the basic.

If u want to shoot ppl so eagerly, a first person shooter is best, not a simulator. Well with the correct "i feel that" scenario of course.

I think you are just pissed of at the aggressor team and instructors. Good! Now use that for something useful, like doing it correctly.

A true sniper will shoot rarely, but accurately (a first shot would relay your presence but a second shot would give away your position). However he will use fieldcraft all the time.

As i said before. True Sniping is not about the killing... its about the hunt.

PS: Has anyone qualified yet? Or learned something out of it. Im interested if anyone has that "i feel factor" also. Better catch me at ofp.info i dont come here often.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TheOmega @ June 17 2002,08:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PS: Has anyone qualified yet? Or learned something out of it. Im interested if anyone has that "i feel factor" also. Better catch me at ofp.info i dont come here often.<span id='postcolor'>

This is a great mission.

The first time, I went to "Bald Mountain" on the left and was rightfully told that my outline can be seen as far away as Cincinnatti.

The second time I walked up to an instructor, misunderstanding their purpose. I thought I was supposed to get additional info from him. Instead he shouts out what a fool I am for being spotted and I put my hands above my head and beg them not to shoot me.

Now I'm on the 3rd try. I've saved in the middle because I don't have enough time to play this all the way through. I've got someone in my sites but I'm not sure yet that it's my mark.

Getting to where I got was quite a challenge.

I would love to see more missions like this for snipers and every other grunt. This is terrific!

[Loki278912 0]

ok what the hell does the "General" target look like? i see a bunch of targets, and i see a barrel. i also see about 3 guys on the ridge looking out (which i assume are the instructors) but which one to I shoot after I call my window?

[ralphwiggum 6]

i managed to shoot 5 targets before I was detected.

but i never managed to get that close the primary objective....better start practicing.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TheOmega @ June 16 2002,22:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes... well. It is training. You have a misconception that sniping is a shoot everybody free madman kind of thing. No such thing. Reality of the job is done within set rules: orders and ROE. Killing off the instructors and the aggressor team is not your mission, however inclined to do that you may be. If u cannot overcome adversity of this factor, then... well u must have experienced the feeling quite a few time on the exercise. Death is natures way of saying you've failed the course.

There aint no snipers POW's. If u are caught, and know to be one, you would be capped on the spot. That is real life for u. So in the exercise, dont get caught.<span id='postcolor'>

your "instructor team" seems to have all the "misconcieved ideas" you seem to think i have, pal. they shoot at me the first chance they get, and nine out of ten times, they're dead on. When i shoot them, i break the rules of engagement. When they shoot me, its an "accident" and they get off scott free. what the hell is that?

you talk about me not being able to overcome the adversity of this factor, and yet the way i would overcome it is to dispatch those that make it harder for me to get the job done. just like i'm sure every other soldier in their right mind with means to do so would do. do you have military experience at all? do you know for a fact that this is how a sniper would act in the field?

I'm dying to ask you at this point, what would you do if you were a sniper in the field and you saw a potential threat that could alert all his comrades to your presence and end your military career? In real life, if you fired a shot within 200 meters of them, they'd know something was up anyway, so wouldnt it make more sense to eliminate your un doing before it un does you?

[Hidden 0]

never mind

[theavonlady 2]

Finished the mission. Score: 11. Loved it.

Minor note: Objectives 1 (make way for departure), 2 (infiltrate) and 5 (extract) were not checked off in my briefing book.

Are you planning on making more of these? Please??!!

[TheOmega 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The first time, I went to "Bald Mountain" on the left and was rightfully told that my outline can be seen as far away as Cincinnatti.

The second time I walked up to an instructor, misunderstanding their purpose. I thought I was supposed to get additional info from him. Instead he shouts out what a fool I am for being spotted and I put my hands above my head and beg them not to shoot me.

Avonlady<span id='postcolor'>

LOL. Looks like u really got into it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Finished the mission. Score: 11. Loved it.

Minor note: Objectives 1 (make way for departure), 2 (infiltrate) and 5 (extract) were not checked off in my briefing book.

Are you planning on making more of these? Please??!! Finished the mission. Score: 11. Loved it.

Avonlady<span id='postcolor'>

Congratulations! Looks like your the 3rd to qualify, and the 1st public community member at that too. The OFP mom in all of us rises to the top. Maybe some experience shows.

Im glad u enjoyed it.

You can of course try for the max score, and all targets for a further challenge now that you've made it.

Yes there are more. Unfortunately my time is limited and divided between stuff so on the time available. It is supposed to be a part of a campaign course, but there are still some (way to many) things im testin with other ppl to make it better. Some addons are needed for other details. Just as example i started it off in september last year, left it on the shelf and finished it only in March.

About those notes u stated: Thx. I will look into it. Easily corrected if missed.

Just one question. Did the chopper approach and land correctly? Had some time with it until it was satisfactory, but sometimes the AI does its own thing.

But serves as example. Realistic complex missions can be simulated to effect, with no scripting and no addons.

[mattmayhem 0]

This mission is pretty cool, the first time i figured to go straight to the target area cause that was where is had cover...wrong i got caught really fast. Then i decided i would go up the right side line (from your start point) so i ran from bushes to bushes, and only saw 2 guys. Then i found a little pack of trees right up against the border line inside the target zone, there was some blue targets near me but i just left them. Then because my "forest" was so close to the out of bounds i accidentally crossed the line and was told i was stupid for leaving the area. Nothing happened at first and i saw something in the distance, i went prone and looked through he scope to see a jeep a fire and some guys, i was so happy...but then the mission ended about 10 seconds after being told  i was stupid for leaving the area....

I didint feel like trying again after all that running for nothing hehe but now i know where is a good place to go (if im careful where i walk) for my fire pos. so ill try later tonight.

[Loki278912 0]

ok i finished it last night, and i have a few things you should know. The Briefing is filled with some useless stuff, such as meteorological reports. wind isnt modeled to any effect in OFP, niether is barometric pressure. if youre adding those for some sort of "immersion factor" then ok. if not, take em out. the "general" target should be more clearly recognizable. it should be reskinned in black or something. Also, the radio calls should be covered more in the briefing. i waited around for about 5 minutes before i realized that I had to call for the helicopter to come pick me up. The other soldiers in the area, such as the officers, their roles should be more clearly defined. They should have a label or something in their name when you place the x-hair over them.

But overall, a great mission. lots of fun, very challenging. the charachter you play however, has a really unsteady hand. If he was trained in sniping his aim should be rock-steady. if you could mod that into the charachter I would appreciate it

[mattmayhem 0]

tried again but wasint succesful, got a score of 14 but , was captured leaving my ffp becuase i was to hyped up to look around and a guy was waiting for me i was suprised cause he wasint there a few secs b4 when i came up.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TheOmega @ June 17 2002,23:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just one question. Did the chopper approach and land correctly? Had some time with it until it was satisfactory, but sometimes the AI does its own thing.<span id='postcolor'>

No problems with the helo extraction.

BTW, who was that NATO guy waiting at the beach, facing east? I got so scared of others that I avoided him like the plague and went around northwards to get to the extraction area.

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

That was just Gronsky T. Seymore looking for some seashells to send home to his mother.

[PowerMage 0]

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[PopUpTarget 0]

Omega,

Great mission! I scored a 16, but it wasn't on the first try, or the second, or the third even. Which is good...if I did that well on the first try it would be way too easy.

I finally figured out who was the primary mark after reading the briefing a couple of times and thinking about what it said. It dawned on me after taking a really long, hard look at the jeep through the scope. Very clever. After that it was just a matter of picking a good position to fire from without being detected.

It took me an hour and 11 minutes from start to extraction, and there were no bugs in the mission that I can detect. The helo showed up after I called it in, and the other sniper that I tripped over in the marsh grass and I boarded and off we went.

I won't spoil it for anyone who has not played yet by telling my strategy for ingress, shooting position and egress. I will tell you that I do understand the reasoning behind not running around willy-nilly and shooting every OpFor guy that walks by (as awfully tempting as that is). A sniper mission is by definition a very discriminatory action.

I'd like to see another "training" field set in the woods maybe, of with worse weather.