Communism (sp?)

[DarkLight 0]

When i visit forums and hear people talking about communism (probable spelled wrong) (almost) everybody is really negative about it.

Personally i don't really understand why it's so bad, as far as i know, it's a pretty good thing, the only bad thing is how it's being used but it's a good idea, i think.

What's so bad about it? Is there something i don't know?

I'd like to hear some more about this, but please don't start flaming or post stupid replies.

A system where everyone is equal is pretty good right? Or am i wrong?

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

I think communism was a good idea its just there seems to be a lot of corruption involved with it and as such it creates terrible stereotypes (Stalin, that chinese bloke etc...)

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

The bad thing about Communism is that it doesn't work on a large scale, like countries for instance. Then of course you have "intelligent" people who saw the Soviet Union and China etc., who were hiding behind the cloak of Communism, and these "inteligent" people think that the Soviet Union and China are/were prime examples of Communism. The truth is, China and the Soviet Union were closer to Nazi Germany than anything else, fascist/oppressive military dictatorship.

Why doesn't Communism work? Because it is against human nature. In a communist environment you would be equal with everyone else, but you also would not own anything! Not even your underwear! If someone else would need a piece of underwear, and you had two pieces, then you would have to give one away. Would you give stuff away? Would you be willing to share your PC with someone random if you had to?

It also doesn't fit in with our society the way it has developed. In our society, hard work pays off (usually) and as a result you gain prizes, such as a higher wage or a bigger company car. In a Communist regime, a dumbass farmer, a police officer and a Honours Degree Law student would all be thought of the same. If you were that Law student, would you want to live the same life a farmer does? I certainly wouldn't.

SO yeah, in theory it is cool, but currently there is no way of making it work in our society.

[Sadico 1]

I think most people hasn't even bothered to read the Manifesto (by Marx), and they think communism is suposed to be like the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China or the murderous Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia. I don't know if communism can really work, because there has never been a country that really followed the Manifesto. The main thing is: it can't be impossed, it must be elected by the people.

[Paratrooper 0]

Ancient and cherished cultures destroyed, money stolen and "redistributed", collectivisation of farming and industry, fixed wages, shortages, DICTATORSHIP,cultural productions controlled by the state and the sifleing of trade. To name just a few down sides to this 'wonder' solution to the worlds problems.

[Mora2 0]

Well...i reall y don´t think it is fair than a person has the same "things" as me when i´ve hard worked and he has layed in his sofa doing nothing at all.....of course there are always persons that don´t diserve what they have but i don´t have to give my properties to someone else just because everyone has to be equal...

If you think this is a stupid argument....well ok...you can think it, but thanks godness i don´t live in a communist country where everybody has the same pertenences...

I think communist is an out-dated system which fortunately hasn´t developed and i just hope it keeps getting forgotten...

[LauryThorn 0]

Ex-Ronin has a point there.

It's again human nature.

Much of it is based on work.

Everyone works as much as they can, and everyone

gets what he/she needs.

But then, what's the point of working so hard,

when you can get everything you need with less work?

That's where the human nature does not fit in to communism.

I live in Finland, and communists here have certainly

skipped the history classes!

[Paratrooper 0]

Oh and the Manifesto (which I have read many times) is designed for a 19th Century industrial world, it has no meaning in the modern economic and social environment of the West.

[Paratrooper 0]

Laury; you Finns must know better than anyone what Communist Dictatorships do.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ June 12 2002,14:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ancient and cherished cultures destroyed, money stolen and "redistributed", collectivisation of farming and industry, fixed wages, shortages, DICTATORSHIP,cultural productions controlled by the state and the sifleing of trade. To name just a few down sides to this 'wonder' solution to the worlds problems.<span id='postcolor'>

That has nothing to do with Communism, this is the Soviet Union which is about as Communist as I am a Klingon.

[Sadico 1]

Certainly. Abolishing private property is against human nature. But there is no need to do that. The idea of communism is keeping the economy and the industry under the state's control rather than letting the corporations exploit the workers, not abolishing private property. The only regime that has abolished completely private property (for all i know) is the khmer rouge. Have you seen the images of rooms filled with human skulls?

Paratrooper, you are right too. The manifesto is old now (but not nearly as old as the american constitution, for example), so it could hadly be applied today. It has to be renovated.

[Paratrooper 0]

Name one free communist country, the points in my first post are the inevitabe products of communist. You can not seperate the Soviet Union from communism, as the USSR was a product of it. STATE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING IS TYRANNY!

[Sadico 1]

Even better: Name one REAL communist country

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even better: Name one REAL communist country <span id='postcolor'> Your missing the point, N Korea, China, USSR, Cuba, are real communist countries, that is what communist countries are!

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ June 12 2002,14:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh and the Manifesto (which I have read many times) is designed for a 19th Century industrial world, it has no meaning in the modern economic and social environment of the West.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean kind of like the US Constitution?

[Prune 0]

I doubt that there are any 'communist' countries that Marx would approve of as being the product of his vision.

So democracy just happens to be the best of a bad lot. It would be better if it actually worked. In Britain it is almost a 1 party system because the Lib Dems are a bunch of wet sheep and the Tories have made themselves unelectable. Thus, we are left with a slimy creep who uses spin to keep his position.

[Paratrooper 0]

Marx and Engel's Manifesto is not a plan for a communist state, like Mine Kampf was a plan for a National Socialist state.

Edit: an amusing typo.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ June 12 2002,14:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your missing the point, N Korea, China, USSR, Cuba, are real communist countries, that is what communist countries are!<span id='postcolor'>

Nope, youre the one missing the point. There hasn't been a single country to follow the communist manifesto the way it was intended. The leader was always meant to be democratically elected

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You mean kind of like the US Constitution?<span id='postcolor'>

You are too slow, man  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even better: Name one REAL communist country  

Your missing the point, N Korea, China, USSR, Cuba, are real communist countries, that is what communist countries are!<span id='postcolor'>

As far as i know, the idea of communism is not enslaving the population. All the countries you have been ruled by a single bastard. That's Stalinism, not communism.

(damn! tovarish answered that one faster than me! )

[Paratrooper 0]

The Manifesto makes no mention of democracy.

[PitViper 0]

if you want communism, do it yourself. Go down to the homeless shelter and give away your possessions. People always talk about implementing a communist government. Communist governments are simply dictatorships. There cannot be a "free", communist government.

[Paratrooper 0]

The destruction of national identity, state controlled industry, and collectivisation is not a worthwhile model for society.

The manifesto was about class warfare not state craft.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ June 12 2002,14:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Manifesto makes no mention of democracy.<span id='postcolor'>

Hey shoot me if I'm wrong about that, I lived 10 years between Cuba and the USSR and I never bothered to read it . However once here in Canada, I saw a video on different systems of government, and it stated that the communist system was originally intended to be a form of democracy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are too slow, man <span id='postcolor'>

Nah, just ocasionally too lazy to read each reply

[Prune 0]

There has to be a better system of government than Democracy, though.

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you want communism,  do it yourself.  Go down to the homeless shelter and give away your possessions. <span id='postcolor'>

That's moronic. Abolishing private property... pffft. What are you gonna say next? That communists have colective wifes??  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

However once here in Canada, I saw a video on different systems of government, and it stated that the communist system was originally intended to be a form of democracy.

<span id='postcolor'>

Note that the first one to talk about communism was Platon, in the ancient Greece.