Alternative history

[Antichrist 0]

Just read my ICQ history with some guy from Canada....... sorry if I offended Assault or other canadians in this forum

161341121: im back

161341121: I asked my elder brother

161341121: He said the Russia and Germany began the WW2!

psyKKe: well Germany did

161341121: They attacked Britain and USA!

psyKKe: lol

psyKKe: hmmm... alternative history

psyKKe: let's hear some more

161341121: They defeated GB but USA kicked their asses!

161341121: USA nad Canada

161341121: Alternative history? What do mean?

psyKKe: sounds really interresting

psyKKe: hmm might write it down

161341121: Its true!

161341121: My brother studied history in the American High Senior School!

161341121: The best school ih the whole world!

psyKKe: now its getting really interesting

161341121: Hey! I said true!

psyKKe: really?

161341121: yes!

161341121: Only losers say lie!

161341121: USA and Canada rule!

psyKKe: he he he he

161341121: nothing funny in it!

psyKKe: I really hope u're kiddin'

161341121: no! Im not kidding!

161341121: Do u believe me?

psyKKe: well its a nice story

psyKKe: of course not

psyKKe: have you ever read a history book?

161341121: why? My brother never says lie!

161341121: I read a book about USA history

psyKKe: just search an info about WW2 on the net

psyKKe: and u'll see why

161341121: ok!

161341121: Russians were cowards! They attacked nazi bitches at the end of the war! When USA crushed german defence

161341121: So, My brother was right

psyKKe: lol

161341121: why?

psyKKe: US were cowards

they only attacked nazus because they were afraid USSR was going to conquer Europe

161341121: What? USA WERENT COWARDS! USA attacked axis because they wanted to save Europe from death and destructions!

161341121: and russians traited axis in 1944!

161341121: when we captured Berlin!

161341121: then we trew bombs on the Japan axis

161341121: hehehe!

psyKKe: is that what happened?

161341121: y

psyKKe: really really interesting......

and probably US won battle of Stalingrad?

psyKKe: and liberated Poland ans Chezh republic?

161341121: yes

161341121: yes

psyKKe: lol

psyKKe: thanx man

u really made my day

psyKKe: I never laughed like that before

161341121: Russia and Germany attacked USA paratroops near Stalinggrad

161341121: NOTHING FUNNY!

161341121: IT WAS TRUE!

161341121: U ARE SILLY IF U DONT BELIEVE ME!

161341121: sorry

161341121: bye! cya later!

psyKKe: bye

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

LOL? I guess he was 9 or so! Everyone trusts his brother at this age!

Anyway, one thing he was right though!

The russians, polish and the Chzech did cruel slaughters and genocide-like devastation on the Sudenten-germans, and especially the women (germans emigrated to the East(before the war)) . Of course, everyone expects us germans to admit and openly speak out the cruelties commited by Germany. And this is good. But Russia and especially the Czeck still denie that those cruelties have happened on their side too. And the most funny thing is, that those Germans still enjoy limited human rights. BTW, that is one reason why they are not allowed to enter the European Union.

The Sudenten Germans

[theavonlady 2]

Must've been sniffing maple syrup.

[Antichrist 0]

Well of course they did! Its war! And they were really pissed off. Everybody does it during the war. Shit happens.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ May 30 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well of course they did! Its war! And they were really pissed off. Everybody does it during the war. Shit happens.  <span id='postcolor'>

Shit happens?

Shit happens, but genocide is not just "shit"! May it be on our side or theirs! The persons in charge need to pay for it! And people in the Eastern countries need to learn that they werent just the glorious liberators. I mean fucking Stalin still has his mausoleum/grave in the centre of Moscow, even though he caused 25 million deaths (not including war) during his time in power. I dont want to downplay what Hitler did, but in most countries there is still to much propaganda in history-books!

[ChickenHawk 0]

That kid has a promising career in Hollywood.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ May 30 2002,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stalin still has his mausoleum/grave in the centre of Moscow, even though he caused 25 million deaths (not including war) during his time in power. I dont want to downplay what Hitler did, but in most countries there is still to much propaganda in history-books!  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, it's amazing how so many people are unaware that Stalin was no less the epitomy of evil, wickedness and cruelty than Hitler.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ May 30 2002,15:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ May 30 2002,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stalin still has his mausoleum/grave in the centre of Moscow, even though he caused 25 million deaths (not including war) during his time in power. I dont want to downplay what Hitler did, but in most countries there is still to much propaganda in history-books!  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, it's amazing how so many people are unaware that Stalin was no less the epitomy of evil, wickedness and cruelty than Hitler.<span id='postcolor'>

Now more than ever! Russia is desperately looking for an identity! The loss of world-power now needs to be compensated by "tales from the glorious past"! Puttin has a hard time to give the people the "what you can be proud off" on the one side and "reality" on the other.

Being realistic about the past would be too much expeceted from the glorious nation which is now on their knees.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

What the hell was that all about? That guy was from Canada? Sounded like an American point of view of history you get from your average 15 year old.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, it's amazing how so many people are unaware that Stalin was no less the epitomy of evil, wickedness and cruelty than Hitler.

<span id='postcolor'>

I completely agree with you on that. History classes don't give the full picture, alot of people see Stalinist Russia as an ally during WW2, well they were, but they don't realize that we sided with one devil to defeat another one.

Honestly, we should have armed the Germans after we beat them (and Japan) and went after Russia, we had the bomb and they didn't.

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ May 30 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Honestly, we should have armed the Germans after we beat them (and Japan) and went after Russia, we had the bomb and they didn't.<span id='postcolor'>

Nice to know that the tales of "Western Imperialist Rats" I was taught in school as a child were'nt completely baseless . I hate Stalin as much as Hitler, maybe more since he was slaughtering his own people, but Assault, you sure show a lot of gratitude for a country wich suffered more casualties than all the other allies combined to stop the Nazis  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Must've been sniffing maple syrup.<span id='postcolor'>

British Columbian hemp is rumored to be twice as potent as anything else, that may also explain it.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nice to know that the tales of "Western Imperialist Rats" I was taught in school as a child were'nt completely baseless<span id='postcolor'>

What? and the communists werent imperialist? Russia kept all the lands it took after WW2.

We both know which system is better, why NOT spread it around the world?

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ May 30 2002,23:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What? and the communists werent imperialist? Russia kept all the lands it took after WW2.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, they were, but I would expect someone who grew up in a democracy and didn't have ideology drilled into his head to be more enlightened

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We both know which system is better, why NOT spread it around the world?

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

Spoken like a true fanatical hardliner. I bet you would also say the end justifies the means.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I bet you would also say the end justifies the means.<span id='postcolor'>

If the end is better than the means, why not? Imagine a world were there was no cold war. Where there isn't a need for a stockpile of thousands of nuclear missiles. Imagine no need to fight wars like Vietnam or Korea. Would a world full of democratic and free counties be that bad?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">fanatical hardliner<span id='postcolor'>

LOL, me? fanatical?......naaaaaahhhh.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but Assault, you sure show a lot of gratitude for a country wich suffered more casualties than all the other allies combined to stop the Nazis<span id='postcolor'>

If we didn't land at Normandy and take half of Europe, the Russians would have claimed it all for themselves. Stalin probably saw an opportunity to expand his empire using the Nazis as an excuse. Before the Nazis invaded, Stalin was already massing troops at the border. Wether this was a defensive or offensive move, we may never know.

Oh well.

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ May 31 2002,00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the end is better than the means, why not? Imagine a world were there was no cold war. Where there isn't a need for a stockpile of thousands of nuclear missiles. Imagine no need to fight wars like Vietnam or Korea. Would a world full of democratic and free counties be that bad?<span id='postcolor'>

That is almost word for word what my old communist teachers used to say, and honestly it sickens me. Just replace "Would a world full of democratic and free counties be that bad?" with something like Would a world full of socialist republics for the people be that bad?". Yep, thick headed fanatisism, same thing Stalin, Hitler and Osama were made of "Whatever it takes to achieve our cause"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before the Nazis invaded, Stalin was already massing troops at the border. Wether this was a defensive or offensive move, we may never know.

<span id='postcolor'>

Very far from the truth, Stalin was caught completely umprepared, ironically he trusted Hitler. Most of the airforce was destroyed on the ground, does that sound like a country gearing up for war? Or what of the fact that a few German soldiers defected right before Barbarosa, told the Russians what was about to happen, and Stalin dismissed them as troublemakers and had them shot for trying to create an incident?

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ May 30 2002,14:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

...I hate Stalin as much as Hitler, maybe more since he was slaughtering his own people...

<Snip><span id='postcolor'>

Um, what do you think Hitler was doing to his fellow Jewish citizens?

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ May 31 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ May 30 2002,14:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Um, what do you think Hitler was doing to his fellow Jewish citizens?<span id='postcolor'>

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, you are right, that was a bad distinction on my part

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just replace "Would a world full of democratic and free counties be that bad?" with something like "Would a world full of socialist republics for the people be that bad?". <span id='postcolor'>

Well the thing is, the socialist republics never were 'for the people' How can they be 'for the people' when they ban free speech? and just about any other rights that we cherish here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Whatever it takes to achieve our cause"<span id='postcolor'>

I never said that. I don't think destroying the world would be very good for our health.

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ May 31 2002,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well the thing is, the socialist republics never were 'for the people' How can they be 'for the people' when they ban free speech? and just about any other rights that we cherish here.

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

I wont get into an argument on the pros and cons of communism with you here, but neither system is perfect in my opinion, of course, free speech is essential, but still not much good if you are starving and homeless.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Whatever it takes to achieve our cause"<span id='postcolor'>

I never said that. I don't think destroying the world would be very good for our health.  

<span id='postcolor'>

Really? Your first quote on the matter said otherwise, and to be honest pissed me off:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Honestly, we should have armed the Germans after we beat them (and Japan) and went after Russia, we had the bomb and they didn't.<span id='postcolor'>

As much as I'd like to continue this discussion I have to leave now, but I'll be back sometime after midnight.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">starving and homeless.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmm. I think that situation applies better over in Russia than it does here. The other countries Communism screwed up are a good example of poverty. Communist countries are really a dictatorship, just one dictator after another. It applied in Russia, China, Cuba and many other countries. If any communist country had allowed free elections during their turn in power, do you think that they would remain communist for very long?

Tyler

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmmm. I think that situation applies better over in Russia than it does here. The other countries Communism screwed up are a good example of poverty.<span id='postcolor'>

Next time a homeless person comes up to you and asks for change..think about the arrogance of that comment. Then call the local food bank and ask how they are doing. And dont be surprised when they tell you that they barely have enough to give to the people who need it.

Poverty and hunger is not the product of a particular belief structure. It's a product of he breakdown of compassion and social responsibility. And there is as much of that in the west as in the east.

<<deletes a paragraph of ranting>>

Please please, engage your brain before opening your mouth.

[Renagade 0]

I WON WORLD WAR 2 ALL ON MY OWN DAMMIT ! !

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ May 31 2002,00:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">starving and homeless.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmm. I think that situation applies better over in Russia than it does here.<span id='postcolor'>

Reality check, I lived in Russia, and no one I knew there went hungry until after the collapse of communism.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Reality check, I lived in Russia, and no one I knew there went hungry until after the collapse of communism.<span id='postcolor'>

Transition can be a hard thing, there was no real infastructure at the time. IMO, people were too dependant on the Government to provide what they needed.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Next time a homeless person comes up to you and asks for change..think about the arrogance of that comment.<span id='postcolor'>

Whatever, I am talking of a different kind of poverty. The living standard in Russia is quite low when compared to that in the West. After the breakup, a very select few of the Russian elite made tons of money from selling former government land. What you have now is a very small upper class, with a huge middle class with a big void between the two.

What's the average life expectancy of a Russian male? Would you be surprised if I told you it was around 55 years of age? Seriously, I'm not joking. The health care system over in Russia is the shits, combine this with alot of jobless and/or depressed Russian males who turn to cheap vodka to forget their problems. Once again, I'm not joking, this story was even featured on CNN.

Goes to show you what 70 years of Communism can do to a country when it tries to recover, anyone can tell you how dependant Russia is on foreign aid. They cant even afford to destroy their own nukes. The U.S. is funding the whole damn project.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">social responsibility<span id='postcolor'>

Bleh. So you are saying that I owe the crackheads and drunks who live off welfare in the downtown of my city something? My taxes are already financing their living, I owe them squat. They should get jobs.

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

Yep, like I feared we've gone offtopic and now it's a communism vs capitalism thing. I still can't understand the thickheadedness of coments like these:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Honestly, we should have armed the Germans after we beat them (and Japan) and went after Russia, we had the bomb and they didn't.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the end is better than the means, why not? Imagine a world were there was no cold war. Where there isn't a need for a stockpile of thousands of nuclear missiles. Imagine no need to fight wars like Vietnam or Korea. Would a world full of democratic and free counties be that bad?

<span id='postcolor'>

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Well comrade, your Russian, so naturally you would feel offended.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> like I feared we've gone offtopic <span id='postcolor'>

Offtopic in the offtopic thread once again. You have been here long enough to realise that most topics go offtopic, thats just the flow of conversation.

Tyler