TOH Modding Where to start ?

[FredAirland 14]

Hi,

I am the developer of a free realism mod for Helicopters in FSX called Helicopter Total Realism (see the forums at www.hovercontrol.com)

The mod has been extensively tested by real helicopter pilots and has also being used by some for home based training. It also includes around 10 specific helicopter failures, autorotations, VRS etc...

1. Where could I get the best tutorials for Arma/TOH Modding ?

2. Will TOH moddability allow for extensive aerodynamics modding, or are the developers planning to expand the available controls ?

I.E. will I be able to control

- Forces & Torques or Linear and angular velocities ?

- Engine Power output ?

- Rotor RPM ?

- Gauges Values in general ?

Thanks

Fred

[ocramweb 0]

Here is a start

BISTUDIO WIKI

And , with .sqf script running ingame and the model config.cpp

I give you a 80% yes on your questions.

The approach from Fs is very different, welcome to you in this new world ;)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Forces & Torques

Currently no (at least not exposed to scripting), but I pray to God that it gets supported in TakOH or ArmA 3.

[.kju 3245]

My advice, besides getting into basic arma modding, dig into the new stuff of ToH.

See Category:Scripting_Commands_Take_On and Community Modding Bible (very end of the thread)

In the CMB you also find various links to arma modding in general.

[twisted 128]

on the TKOH helicopter site it says - Gathering feedback before the official release, rewarding our loyal community, and preparing the modders!

thats amazing as always from BIS. I'd like to know how modders are being prepared? that's a very exciting promise if you look at how arma2 and previous games had amazing user content that expanded on the base bis provided.

[.kju 3245]

Well modding has always been mostly about the community ripping the game (files) apart,

testing stuff for endless hours.

But sure to get more info, guidance to save us from all the wasted time would be the way to go.

[twisted 128]

look i know sweet eff all about modding so do not mock.

but based on the information here. http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/1475

and the very interesting information here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=115692

would it be possible right now to get the other helicopters in arma2 to use the tkoh flight model? would be nice to try out heavier helis or even the apache with the new flight model.

[antoineflemming 14]

would it be possible to get multiplayer working in tkoh_preview... or to get the TKOH UI in OA so that I could play multiplayer with the new UI?

[.kju 3245]

maybe its just an UI modification or maybe its disable actually within the engine

check the UI code and compare it to arma

[DnA 5156]

We'll try to document some new features and technologies even before the release, to get you started. Even just the profileNamespace command should allow for about a million new things :D

The new helicopter flight model is defined in a new type of file (XML), containing an insane amount of parameters and values for the aerodynamics, engines, controllers, etc. Modifying these effectively will be quite hard, but we are leaving it open, so you will be able to.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

We'll try to document some new features and technologies even before the release, to get you started. Even just the profileNamespace command should allow for about a million new things :D

The new helicopter flight model is defined in a new type of file (XML), containing an insane amount of parameters and values for the aerodynamics, engines, controllers, etc. Modifying these effectively will be quite hard, but we are leaving it open, so you will be able to.

that sounds really good ! :459:

[.kju 3245]

Right on. Thanks for sharing DnA :bounce3:

Btw the xml is called Light-GenHeli600-DesktopSim.xml and you can view it in the CMB.

(in .\hsim\tkoh_beta\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light)

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

whoa! there are so many values in FGRotorBladeElementTheory controlling lift and drag coefficients!

<Rotors>

<Rotor type="FGRotorBladeElementTheory">

<ModelConfiguration updateSubstepCount="360" />

<InfoPrint printControlInputs="false" printFlappingInfo="false" printOmega="false" />

<Geometry>

<Position x="0.0" y="0.260" z="0.8720" />

<Tilt lateralTilt="0.0" longitudinalTilt="0" />

<Blades radius="4.165" chord="0.171" count="5" hingeOffset="0.128" />

<Rotation clockwise="false" />

</Geometry>

<MechanicalFeatures Ir="355" Ib="71" maxBrakeTorque="500" />

<AerodynamicFeatures>

<DesignRPM rpm="467"/>

<Blades twist="-9">

<LiftCoefficient>

0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0

-180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

-176 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133

-168 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725

-160 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665

-152 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875

-144 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525

-136 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225

-128 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925

-120 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625

-112 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325

-104 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025

-96 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725

-88 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575

-80 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875

-72 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175

-64 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475

-56 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775

-48 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075

-40 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375

-32 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675

-28 -0.996 -0.955 -0.946 -0.93 -0.918

-24 -0.988 -0.962 -0.938 -0.89 -0.854

-20 -0.98 -0.966 -0.93 -0.85 -0.79

-16 -0.972 -0.970 -0.922 -0.81 -0.726

-12 -0.724 -0.535 -0.66 -0.79 -0.662

-8 -0.19 -0.3 -0.55 -0.75 -0.62

-4 -0.45 -0.42 -0.47 -0.47 -0.425

0 0.03 0.05 0.075 0.08 -0.05

4 0.46 0.510 0.613 0.56 0.45

8 0.89 0.98 0.915 0.810 0.8

12 1.25 1.13 1.0 0.845 0.865

16 0.98 0.96 1.08 0.86 0.895

20 0.9856 0.9714 1.053 0.9 0.925

24 0.9912 0.9828 1.031 0.94 0.955

28 0.997 0.9942 1.01 0.98 0.985

32 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675

40 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375

48 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075

56 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775

64 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475

72 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175

80 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875

88 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575

96 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725

104 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025

112 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325

120 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625

128 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925

136 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225

144 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525

152 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875

160 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665

168 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725

176 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133

180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

</LiftCoefficient>

<DragCoefficient >

0.0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0

-180 0 0 0 0 0

-176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733

-168 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995

-160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84

-152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68

-144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825

-136 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762

-128 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712

-120 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662

-112 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561

-104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76

-96 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952

-88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079

-80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086

-72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005

-64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826

-56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554

-48 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262

-40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725

-32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975

-28 0.562 0.57 0.578 0.593 0.601

-24 0.417 0.448 0.469 0.52 0.543

-20 0.267 0.33 0.361 0.44 0.486

-16 0.12 0.208 0.285 0.364 0.428

-12 0.018 0.022 0.191 0.29 0.37

-8 0.008 0.009 0.07 0.16 0.248

-4 0.0075 0.008 0.0125 0.065 0.152

0 0.0075 0.008 0.008 0.017 0.09

4 0.0085 0.0085 0.011 0.09 0.1525

8 0.011 0.014 0.073 0.17 0.249

12 0.026 0.098 0.179 0.285 0.37

16 0.23 0.23 0.283 0.361 0.428

20 0.345 0.345 0.358 0.435 0.486

24 0.455 0.455 0.467 0.508 0.543

28 0.56 0.56 0.576 0.583 0.601

32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975

40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725

48 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625

56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554

64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826

72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005

80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086

88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079

96 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525

104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76

112 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612

120 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366

128 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171

136 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976

144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825

152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68

160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84

168 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996

176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733

180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

</DragCoefficient>

this immediately came to mind :p

xos2MnVxe-c

Edited July 13, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[blu3sman 11]

I really like that xml.:) But arent those steps for alpha to big? Is it precise enough to interpolate +-4 degrees?

[ocramweb 0]

be nice to have that pbo uncrypted so we can start modeling :cool:

Edited July 13, 2011 by ocramweb

[soul_assassin 1750]

-Ziggy-;1980545']whoa! there are so many values in FGRotorBladeElementTheory controlling lift and drag coefficients!

<Rotors>

<Rotor type="FGRotorBladeElementTheory">

<ModelConfiguration updateSubstepCount="360" />

<InfoPrint printControlInputs="false" printFlappingInfo="false" printOmega="false" />

<Geometry>

<Position x="0.0" y="0.260" z="0.8720" />

<Tilt lateralTilt="0.0" longitudinalTilt="0" />

<Blades radius="4.165" chord="0.171" count="5" hingeOffset="0.128" />

<Rotation clockwise="false" />

</Geometry>

<MechanicalFeatures Ir="355" Ib="71" maxBrakeTorque="500" />

<AerodynamicFeatures>

<DesignRPM rpm="467"/>

<Blades twist="-9">

<LiftCoefficient>

0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0

-180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

-176 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133

-168 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725

-160 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665

-152 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875

-144 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525

-136 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225

-128 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925

-120 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625

-112 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325

-104 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025

-96 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725

-88 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575

-80 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875

-72 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175

-64 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475

-56 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775

-48 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075

-40 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375

-32 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675

-28 -0.996 -0.955 -0.946 -0.93 -0.918

-24 -0.988 -0.962 -0.938 -0.89 -0.854

-20 -0.98 -0.966 -0.93 -0.85 -0.79

-16 -0.972 -0.970 -0.922 -0.81 -0.726

-12 -0.724 -0.535 -0.66 -0.79 -0.662

-8 -0.19 -0.3 -0.55 -0.75 -0.62

-4 -0.45 -0.42 -0.47 -0.47 -0.425

0 0.03 0.05 0.075 0.08 -0.05

4 0.46 0.510 0.613 0.56 0.45

8 0.89 0.98 0.915 0.810 0.8

12 1.25 1.13 1.0 0.845 0.865

16 0.98 0.96 1.08 0.86 0.895

20 0.9856 0.9714 1.053 0.9 0.925

24 0.9912 0.9828 1.031 0.94 0.955

28 0.997 0.9942 1.01 0.98 0.985

32 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675

40 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375

48 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075

56 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775

64 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475

72 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175

80 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875

88 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575

96 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725

104 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025

112 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325

120 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625

128 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925

136 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225

144 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525

152 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875

160 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665

168 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725

176 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133

180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

</LiftCoefficient>

<DragCoefficient >

0.0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0

-180 0 0 0 0 0

-176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733

-168 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995

-160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84

-152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68

-144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825

-136 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762

-128 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712

-120 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662

-112 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561

-104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76

-96 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952

-88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079

-80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086

-72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005

-64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826

-56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554

-48 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262

-40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725

-32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975

-28 0.562 0.57 0.578 0.593 0.601

-24 0.417 0.448 0.469 0.52 0.543

-20 0.267 0.33 0.361 0.44 0.486

-16 0.12 0.208 0.285 0.364 0.428

-12 0.018 0.022 0.191 0.29 0.37

-8 0.008 0.009 0.07 0.16 0.248

-4 0.0075 0.008 0.0125 0.065 0.152

0 0.0075 0.008 0.008 0.017 0.09

4 0.0085 0.0085 0.011 0.09 0.1525

8 0.011 0.014 0.073 0.17 0.249

12 0.026 0.098 0.179 0.285 0.37

16 0.23 0.23 0.283 0.361 0.428

20 0.345 0.345 0.358 0.435 0.486

24 0.455 0.455 0.467 0.508 0.543

28 0.56 0.56 0.576 0.583 0.601

32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975

40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725

48 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625

56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554

64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826

72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005

80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086

88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079

96 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525

104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76

112 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612

120 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366

128 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171

136 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976

144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825

152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68

160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84

168 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996

176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733

180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

</DragCoefficient>

indeed. Which means that the modders will need to get these C_L and C_D values from somewhere.

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

I really like that xml.:) But arent those steps for alpha to big? Is it precise enough to interpolate +-4 degrees?

should be fine, especialy for C_L which is nearly linear for the most part (before stall)

[blu3sman 11]

indeed. Which means that the modders will need to get these C_L and C_D values from somewhere.

Cl, Cd and Cm are easy to find. You can get them from actual wind tunnel test reports or calculate with something like JavaFoil. But that applies only for stabs and single rotor blade coefficients. Were to get that huge amounts of other digits I have no idea??

[soul_assassin 1750]

well first you need to find the actual airfoils at the appropriate stations, not always easy to find. Then run them through the software and compile the tables.