Sugestions on island/map design and size

[BloodRiot 10]

Hi everybody.

I'm currently learning and building a map/island for Arma2/Arma2:OA, and not wanting to fall into beginner traps and pits, I decided to ask here to get the input of both what experienced builders have already learned, as well as what common players find fun or interesting, or what should be avoided.

I'm currently building a map which uses terrain data and topography from an existing place. In order to include the locations I want on that map, the terrain size would have to be 30kmx30km... seems HUGE to me. The idea of a massive terrain sounds great at first, but I fear the map is going to be a potential resource hog, and I think that a map that huge will simply have too much wilderness and unpopulated areas which may cause the map to simply be boring to get anywhere from anywhere.

I can possibly scale down the terrain size to half of that making it about chernarus's size (if i'm not mistaken), and use a representative scale of the towns present in the real map, and even so, it's probably gonna be to thinly spread out with lot's of wilderness.

I could however populate those empty areas with fictional small, street sized towns here and there to fill the empty spaces.

On another subject. Is it possible to create a marshland area, a lake, river on a slope? The only way i've managed to find to accomplish such an effect is keeping the water bodies at sea level.

About the terrain segments. What exactly is the impact of the segment size?

Smaller segments allow for diversity in terrain texture, but at what cost?

That's it for now. I'll really appreciate the input i can get on these topics. And I'll post results as soon as I have something to show.

Cheers and thanks.

[Enigma85 2]

30km's isn't anything bad mate.

So Don't be put off by that.

The Fields of War map is 156,000km square ;)

So working on a map 30km x 30km will be fine in my opinion.

It will allow you to have a few different types of topography and terrian types whilst allowing a good sized map.

I wish you luck with your upcoming project :)

Update:

Isn't chenarussia about 225 km2?

Im guessing if you were worried about the word load you could run at a 1:2 ratio scale but even then you would be running a 450km2 size.

It's down to you at the end of the day :P

Edited April 29, 2011 by XxEnigmAxX

[BloodRiot 10]

Alrighty then, thanks :)

Thats what i read... 225km2 for chernarus, but isn't that 15km x 15km?

Anyway, i'll give it a shot as 30km x 30km and see how it holds up with 900km2.

Right now the only thing bogging me down on my current progress is the sat map texture size hogging my pc like crazy :p

I'm gonna give it a shot and if it proves too big or too intensive, i'll aim for scaling it down to a maximum of 225km2.

Thanks for the input man. Now let's see how it goes.

Cheers.

[raptor 6 actual 13]

I know this isn't the Visitor model editing forum, but please do report back on your progress. Though my recreation of MCRD Parris Island is no where as big as Rip's or even your project, every little lesson learned and then shared is greatly appreciated.

GL

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

well... believe me u want to start small.

there are loads of things u have to figure out how to do,

when u start big u have to whait long when thing are loading, binarizing, not to mention abouth photoshop.

its best to start a smaller sized map, depending on the type of map u have on your mind. if it has loads of buildings and vegetation u want to start small its realy a shit load to do specialy when u have to learn how it all works.

i am working on a map 4096x4096 square size=10 thats easy 12x takistan and i dont want to think abouth everything that has to be done bevore its even decent enough for a beta if im working with photoshop sometimes i have to waith 30 minutes bevore it saves a 7x7mtrs in size image not to mention importing it back into visitor 3...

its best to start small make it as good as u possibly can and LEARN

bevore u start something big.

good luck,

and like raptor says its always nice to show your progres :)

[BloodRiot 10]

BlackMamba: I understand and that's pretty good advice. It's hard to see things going and I'm indeed waiting a long time in Visitor and Bulldozer. The Photoshop part is done and SatMap was a nightmare with the waiting times.

I'll probably just finish the basic terrain setup(landscape + textures)... if i'm not terribly mistaken and if all goes well i should be about done for an initial test... then i'll put this aside for a bit and work on a small island just for learning purposes.

This is starting to look alot like the hell i go through with render times in 3d apps.

Also i'll probably start working with pre split files for satmap and mask and just join them up at the very end so I have an easier time.

Raptor 6: I'll try to keep things somewhat updated... sure thing mate. Thanks for the interest :)

Cheers

[jr_walker 10]

Hi Blood,

I started my first mapping effort last fall. A 40km by 40km island. Your questions about segment size, water etc. are questions asked by many when they first begin (I was no exception).

My strong advice (and this comes from my own personal experience) is to create a small sample project first. I ended up doing that after weeks of frustration and very slow progress. A 5km x5km loads in Buldozer in just a few minutes and takes less than 10 minutes to bianarize on my machine. My 40km map takes 10 minutes to load in Buldozer and nearly an hour to bianarize. When you're starting out, you really want to be able to see the results quickly. I recommend getting comfortable with the basics by working on a small project and once you've come to know some of the processes and quirks of the tools, start on your real project.

Second thing I found is that the folks here are teriffic: skilled, patient, helpful and friendly. Its always good to try the forum search first, but if you need more information, go ahead and post up. If you need to know about processes, tools or aspects related to terrain, look and post in the terrain forum. Try the modeling forum if you're creating your own objects.

Flowing water (water on a angle) is not presently supported. I did see an older thread where someone had modeled flowing water, but the thread ended without a tutorial or release. So, it may be possible.

There are threads related to segment size, how it is calculated (related to map size and grid size) and used. My understanding is that there are a maximum of four different terrain texures allowed in any given segment (wierdness results if you excede that).

LOL, just realized balckmamba has recommended similar...

Good Luck

[BloodRiot 10]

I've followed the advice on experementing on small maps. However bulldozer is already being very uncooperative.

After following several tuts and other posts. I think I set up the P: drive correctly and still buldozer crashes often or simply doesn't load at all.

The sample map from BI managed to load a bit but crashes on proximity to land.. loads somewhat ok over water and no land in sight.

I'm guessing something in the CA folder(the assets we have to impor from arma) are not setup properly. But even a blank untextured map without any assets whatsoever crashes buldozer. it's gettign a bit frustrating :s

I'm too tired to keep on battling this issue, so perhaps tomorrow i'll have a better run.

Cheers.

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

go to Tools -> System Preferences.

In the line "Command to launch realtime viewer (buldozer) type in the following: -exthreads=0

[galzohar 31]

Not only starting small will make it much easier to learn as said earlier, but also I think that it would be really nice to play on a small yet highly detailed island, as currently even the best islands feel like they somewhat lack detail (and for good reasons - they're huge and it would take incredible amount of work to add more detail to them). By detail I don't just mean looks-wise, but really gameplay-wise. If the terrain is just a heightmap without a lot of objects on it, it'll be very hard to find any kind of cover on it and thus gameplay will suffer. Too many objects on a big island will of course be resource-heavy and time consuming for the island maker. Therefore I'd really like to see a small but detailed island. Even 1 SQM would be cool if it was highly detailed.

Edited April 30, 2011 by galzohar

[nodunit 397]

Flowing water (water on a angle) is not presently supported. I did see an older thread where someone had modeled flowing water, but the thread ended without a tutorial or release. k

This may not be of any help however it was done OFP:E by animating a water texture to animate forward and loop forever..kind of like the treads of a tank but endless. I can't remember exactly where I saw the moving water or what map, and I loaned my copy.

[BloodRiot 10]

go to Tools -> System Preferences.

In the line "Command to launch realtime viewer (buldozer) type in the following: -exthreads=0

I'm not sure if that alone did the trick... I also changed a couple more stuff but buldozer is now loading up a blank map(just elevation and nothing else) just fine. So this problem is hopefully over and I can start doing the actual fun stuff.

Anyway, Thanks Mamba.

As for water, I can live without flowing water on a slope, that's not really a big deal for me. What i was wondering was if it's possible to have bodies of water at different heights so i know if i can rely on actual DEMs or if i have take creative liberties to preserve lakes and rivers, by putting them all at sea level.

Another thing I didn't fully understand by reading the tutorials was... Can i make a mockup satelite image to compile the map, but then actually export the map iamge from visitor to get the actual and hopefully the most accurate satelite image using the actual textures used in the map? The tut on sat maps seemed to say so but i didn't really udnerstand if that was the case.

Thanks for the help so far. i'll keep on the small test map and see if i can make friends with visitor :p

Cheers guys and thanks.