Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[Big Mac 19]

Yeah right, it was a totally wrong decision of your ancestors to get rid of Hitler, at least everybody knew that he was a murderous psycho bastard. Who knows what kind of asshole could have got in charge after him....

See how stupid your argument is?

Gadhafi isn't trying to take over the world, Hitler was. Your argument is flawed.

Compared to the roles of the French and British so far, the Americans are taking a comparative back-seat to this situation precisely because of the problems they know they have.

Oh Really? I don't consider a CSG with two amphibious assault ships, three nuclear attack submarines, a command ship, and three B-2 Bombers taking a back seat. Mark my words when it comes to putting troops on the ground and it probably will the US will doing the bulk of the fighting and dying as per usual. Why should America be asked to risk the lives of it's sons and daughters in a war that doesn't concern them?

Backing out of this under the excuse that it's a Libyan problem would be just like backing out of Rwanda because it was a Rwandan problem. There is a significant chance here for a genocide of at least the people of Benghazi for being where the protests sprouted from which, don't forget, started peacefully until Gadhafi ordered his forces to start killing them.

Then how about we invade half of africa and the middle east then? Civilians are always the first casualty in war but that doesn't make it a genocide. It's not our place to stick our noses in a war that doesn't involve us. Also is there a real good candidate for a democratic libya in the rebel camp? I'll wager a bet that the leaders of the rebels are just as bad if not worse than Gadhafi. Edited March 20, 2011 by Big Mac

[Spokesperson 0]

I'm appalled that some people here are more worried about the possible hypocrisy of western politicians than what Gaddafi is doing and going to do to his citizens if unprevented.

I think that it's better that one massacre is prevented or brutal, insane dictator deposed than none at all, whatever the helpers' motives. Someone said that even the shining white knight rescues the princess for poontang and half the kingdom, and it doesn't make the deed any less good.

What you claim Gaddafi is doing, is exactly what the coalition of the devil does right now.

[Zipper5 74]

Wait what? Coalition of the devil?

[Spokesperson 0]

"We will be victorious, the coalition of the devil will be defeated!"

[Zipper5 74]

You seem to forget that even the Arab League are involved in these efforts. They too are standing against what Gadhafi is doing to his people, not just the west. But I presume you are also critical of the Arab governments to the same degree as you are of the west, yes?

[Big Mac 19]

You seem to forget that even the Arab League are involved in these efforts. They too are standing against what Gadhafi is doing to his people, not just the west. But I presume you are also critical of the Arab governments to the same degree as you are of the west, yes?

Then let the Arabs be the ones to enforce this no fly zone...

[Zipper5 74]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-20/qatar-says-it-will-join-libya-military-operations-as-arabs-back-offensive.html

President Barack Obama said that American involvement would not include ground troops and, after helping at the onset, the U.S. would leave enforcement of the no-fly zone to allies, including Arab nations.

And just for reference, I'm a Canadian living in Qatar.

[Spokesperson 0]

The Arab League just said that it didn't support the bombing of Libya, just the no-fly zone.

The Arab governments are worse than the west, and should be put under sanctions as well, but the thing is that they are western allies.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

It already includes ground troops, and will include such. The only thing the resolution prohibited was occupation.

[Zipper5 74]

The Arab governments are worse than the west, and should be put under sanctions as well, but the thing is that they are western allies.

But not Libya, right? Despite being the ones with the most solid proof of having murdered their own people? Libya was also an "ally" of the west before this too.

[Big Mac 19]

President Barack Obama said that American involvement would not include ground troops and, after helping at the onset, the U.S. would leave enforcement of the no-fly zone to allies, including Arab nations.

Yea until the UN passes a resolution calling for an invasion to oust Gadhafi and then Obama will be all to happy to accommodate them with ground troops..

[jw custom 56]

Gadhafi isn't trying to take over the world, Hitler was. Your argument is flawed.

Doesn't matter, your point was that you know what you have but you don't know what you get.... which in this matter is so very very wrong.

What you claim Gaddafi is doing, is exactly what the coalition of the devil does right now.

Using our military to slaughter our own countries civilians? :j:

I don't know who your trying to fool, i do know Gadaffi is feeding his own population with his propoganda bs because they are cut off from the rest of the world.

Then let the Arabs be the ones to enforce this no fly zone...

Sure that would have been the far best solution, but before they would get their fingers out if ever the tradigy would already had happened.

[Big Mac 19]

Doesn't matter, your point was that you know what you have but you don't know what you get.... which in this matter is so very very wrong.

That makes no sense. How can you compare this to WW2?

Sure that would have been the far best solution, but before they would get their fingers out if ever the tradigy would already had happened.

Actually it's the perfect solution since it is more their problem than ours.

[Zipper5 74]

That makes no sense. How can you compare this to WW2?

In the most basic sense? A maniacal dictator is murdering innocent people, and we're stepping in to stop him.

[Big Mac 19]

In the most basic sense? A maniacal dictator is murdering innocent people, and we're stepping in to stop him.

It's not the same. Hitler was trying to take over the world, Gadhafi is just trying to keep his little kingdom. Also hardly anyone knew about the concentration camps until near the end of WW2 so your argument is invalid. Gadhafi is no more crazy than any other run of the mill dictator. You need to stop listening to anti-Gadhafi propaganda, it's no more truthful than the pro-Gadhafi propaganda.. Also by your logic we should invade half the countries in the world just because the government is killing it's own people. I say finish your plate then get seconds... Edited March 20, 2011 by Big Mac

[jw custom 56]

That makes no sense. How can you compare this to WW2?

I do not compare it to WW2 but if your saying works on Gadaffi it should work anywhere. Nobody knew how WW2 would end when entering it.

Actually it's the perfect solution since it is more their problem than ours.

Before they would manage to act if ever Gadaffi would have rolled over benghazi and left a blood bath.... wouldn't really call that a "perfect solution".

[Zipper5 74]

It's not the same. Hitler was trying to take over the world, Gadhafi is just trying to keep his little kingdom. Also hardly anyone knew about the concentration camps until near the end of WW2 so your argument is invalid. Gadhafi is no more crazy than any other run of the mill dictator. You need to stop listening to anti- Gadhafi propaganda, it's no more truthful than the pro-Gadhafi propaganda.. Also by your logic we should invade half the countries in the world just because the government is killing it's own people. I say finish your plate then get seconds...

Of course it's not nearly the scale, nor is it as complicated, nor is it likely to have such a lasting impression, but you asked how you can compare it to WW2 and the most obvious answer to that is the murdering of innocent people and our responding to it.

And we should stop all of them or none at all? What kind of logic is that?

[Spokesperson 0]

The government of Libya is worse than that of many governments in the west. But that doesn't mean it's right to bomb them.

Using our military to slaughter our own countries civilians?

Yes, that's pretty normal. Happens in the US from time to time. Wounded Knee, Kent State etc. .

But it doesn't matter, what matters is that the civilians are unarmed. There is no proof that Gaddafi has killed civilians on purpose. If that doesn't matter though, the US, UK and other countries of the CD should be put into international court for mass murdering civilians in Iraq (there's video proof - wikileaks), Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Libya.

I don't know who your trying to fool, i do know Gadaffi is feeding his own population with his propoganda bs because they are cut off from the rest of the world.

You are blind if you can't see that western media is full of pro-war propaganda about "freedom" and "democracy". The whole thing about using air force to attack civilians was a lie, and that was the main reason for invasion. It's common practice.

? A maniacal dictator is murdering innocent people, and we're stepping in to stop him.

Yes, suddenly he turned into a "murdering maniac". Right. And you are stepping in to stop him. Just like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam and all other countries where you killed a couple of millions and people didn't want your "freedom" and "democracy".

Focusing on a single person and calling him resonponsible and crazy is just standard propaganda techniques.

[Zipper5 74]

Yes, suddenly he turned into a "murdering maniac". Right. And you are stepping in to stop him. Just like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam and all other countries.

Canada goes where the UN goes, therefore we stayed out of Iraq.

The guy's been known to be loopy for years, this just proves that he's the dangerous, destructive and yes, mass-murdering kind of loopy, therefore he needs to go.

[Big Mac 19]

Of course it's not nearly the scale, nor is it as complicated, nor is it likely to have such a lasting impression, but you asked how you can compare it to WW2 and the most obvious answer to that is the murdering of innocent people and our responding to it.

But how is what Gadhafi does to his own people the problem for the rest of the world? Is he trying to take over Africa? No he isn't, so from my point of view it's a sin and a shame but it's none of our business.

And we should stop all of them or none at all? What kind of logic is that?

Why should we even care when we have real issues at home? I much rather see a thriving economy, lowered national debt, and people not struggling to find good work than a war which I as an American have no stake in.

[Zipper5 74]

Just because the American people are having economic and social problems of their own they should not be trying to prevent the mass-murdering of thousands at the hands of a guy who's obviously going to do it the minute he gets the chance?

The Americans aren't the only ones involved in this, and they aren't the only ones with economic, social and political problems of their own. They recognize that the defenseless people of Libya need to be protected, since their own leader would rather kill them than negotiate with them, and the rag-tag rebel forces are falling apart as Gadhafi ramps it up.

[concurssi 11]

And here we go, back to the beginning of the loop again. My head is spinning.

[jw custom 56]

The whole thing about using air force to attack civilians was a lie, and that was the main reason for invasion. It's common practice.

and you base that on?

[Tonci87 163]

Listen Big Mac, If you walk on the street, and you see some Idiot beating up an old granny, Whatr do you do? Do you say "This is not my Problem, this doesn´t concern me" and walk away? If yes, then i really feel sorry for you. We all know that Gaddafi is crazy, completely nuts. He has proven this very often. And I know that he would do literally everything to keep his little kingdom. If this means killing his own people, he still would do it. So if someone says to me that he has bombed his own people, I will believe that somebody. Those who say something else should come up with prove. And I don´t mean the completely biased "reports" of Russia Today or the russian military. Russia has many nationalities, some of them with separatist tendencies, it doesn´t really wonder me that they are always agains any form of rebellion, may it be justified or not

[Zipper5 74]

and you base that on?

Hypothetical events, just like the rage over the hypothetical involvement of American ground troops or the hypothetical break out of a war compared to that of Iraq or Afghanistan, hence he thinks that the reason we'll hypothetically go to war with Libya is a lie just like it was recently revealed to have been in Iraq. The anger people feel here seems bent more towards the ifs, rather than what is actually happening or going to happen.

Also, here's an interesting related article on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/20/bergen.libya.us/index.html?iref=NS1

[Big Mac 19]

Just because the American people are having economic and social problems of their own they should not be trying to prevent the mass-murdering of thousands at the hands of a guy who's obviously going to do it the minute he gets the chance?

Is he killing Americans? Has he launched attacks against us in past few weeks before we bombed him? No he hasn't. From my point of view if this guy is so bad then the people should rise up and oust him themselves, it's their problem let them handle it.

The Americans aren't the only ones involved in this, and they aren't the only ones with economic, social and political problems of their own.

No but we're the one thats going to be expected the carry the biggest burden.

They recognize that the defenseless people of Libya need to be protected, since their own leader would rather kill them than negotiate with them

No our president is cow towing to the UN.

the rag-tag rebel forces are falling apart as Gadhafi ramps it up.

And that's the problem of the west how? Maybe next time they'll do better.