Naval Vehicles

[ScorpionGuard 10]

Hello all. I was just wondering if anyone can answer a question about tranferring a 3D model of an ship (DDG, or LCS) to ArmA 2. How would I go about getting it to work with the system? How would I go about having the weapons to work? How would I go about have an MH-60R/S land without falling through the deck while moving an in the hanger. Your answers are very welcomed. Thank you.

Edited August 25, 2010 by ScorpionGuard

[mankyle 420]

The main problem with naval vehicles and GNAT can answer better than me is their size. The Geo LOD has a definite and measurable limit in size. Than means that naval vehicles have, invariably, colision problems, for example when trying to land a helicopter in a landing pad. That's the reason for having the LHD in 7 sections.

That's the only limiting problem. Well that and the fact that the class ship has problems when moving from one position o another one. In the end if you start in the driver position and move to any other position you lose the capability of moving ot any other position.

Ah!!!

And also the VLS limit. No Vertical Launch System in Arma engine unless you script it.

PM me and I will help you rigging and animating the model. I have done with the ANZAC frigate of the ANZAC mod

[ScorpionGuard 10]

Thanks mankyle. I will be in touch.

[JDog 11]

Specifically, the issues with model size are a 50x50x50m limit for geometry/roadways, in which case if you exceed that you start to get "holes" that you can fall through. For the resolution LODs it's something greater, at which point the model will visually disappear, but I'm not sure what.

For example the carrier I'm working on right now is 332m long or something like that, length-wise it had 8 models comprising its geometry/roadway, and 4 for resolution. But its also around 65 meters wide, so I actually have 16 geometry/roadway LODs assembled together just to make sure it all works. (Why I chose such a massive thing to do for a first addon still eludes me).

I haven't experimented with moving models, as mankyle said Gnat would be the person for that. The one real problem with moving models is that there's no "object-based gravity" in the game, so anything standing on a moving roadway LOD will simply slide off (unless attached to the vehicle). Getting them to move, I would assume wouldn't be too difficult of an endeavor, probably just attach all the pieces to one movable "control piece" I suppose but of this I have no experience or clue yet.

[ScorpionGuard 10]

Thank for your input. But wouldn't the scale of the vehicle be based upon the geometry of such as if an human male (Ingame Marine or Soldier) that is 6 ft/1.8288 m. For if ArmA is base upon the "real world". That you would just follow the rules geometry. For example. The Gerald R. Ford CVN is in lenght 1,092 ft/333 m. And the beam is 134 ft/41 m. So knowing that. Would you scale your models in that manner?

[JDog 11]

I think you just threw me off, but I'll try to help.

Yes. Haha, simple answer. Maybe I confused you when I threw the word "geometry" in there, not sure. I'm making the Nimitz right now and its flight deck is pretty much the same thing as the Ford class carrier. When I modeled it, and in-game, it is indeed set to being "1,092 feet" long (or as close as I could get it, 3ds max > O2 import has some scale issues for me). So yes by all means use the proper dimensions when modeling your addon. However should it exceed that 50m limit, you will more than likely have to split it into multiple models to be assembled in-game.

In case you didn't know, what I meant by Geometry in my previous post was one of the LODs you have to make for your model which detects object collision (walls, hull, etc).

[ScorpionGuard 10]

No. I didn't throw you away good sir. It was a question that I was asking. But under stand the concept now. Witch led to the question. Is there no way to make a model of an hold aircraft carrier (deck, walls, working elevators, weapon systems, radar, etc) without splitting it up in to multiple parts? Just asking. Would a person have to write a new line of code for it to work? Are some script can do the job we wish to have done?

P.S. How would you rework the catapult for the Ford Class CVN do to it being a Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS)?

Edited August 26, 2010 by ScorpionGuard

[JDog 11]

Man! And that time I threw you off haha! "Threw me off" meant "to confuse me" not "to throw me away", dont worry! :)

You can indeed create it in once piece, however as I said, it will often entirely disappear from sight as the game engine cannot support single objects that large. And once you incorporate the "geometry" and "roadway" LODs for collision and walking on, it will be very unstable. If you were to make a Ford class carrier, being in that it is nearly identical in terms of the hull and deck to the Nimitz, you will have to do as I have and create many models.

However, this is not to say that you need to model each section individually, not at all. I made mine as one entire model at first. I constructed the deck, hull, island, and hangar bay all together in one model. You can do the same, then, depending on the program you use to model it, there should surely be a way to "slice" the model. In 3ds MAX it's "Slice Plane", with the option chosen to split the model as well.

There is one thing that makes the process easier though, is that after you split the model up into different models/files... as long as you dont move their position relative to the origin, when you spawn each piece in-game they will line up properly, so you won't have to try to figure out how to get them in correct positions.

EMALS: Obviously very little information is readily available yet regarding how this works or its acceleration compared to steam catapults. I would assume that it, too, is nearly identical in terms of speed. The only thing different you would have to do is find a proper sound, which, again, we don't quite know what it sounds like. This is one reason I opted to do a Nimitz, though I had thought of trying a Ford. Simply because there is much more reference. However if you were to make a Ford, you would have much more creative freedom.

Here is a thread I have had going on regarding working on my carrier, if you read through it you may find some more answers to questions you may have, as its my first addon and I had beginner questions:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=100910

Edited August 26, 2010 by JDog

[[aps]gnat 28]

P.S. How would you rework the catapult for the Ford Class CVN do to it being a Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS)?

Wow, you seem to be talking way too low level detail for this game.

If your after that sort of detail for a game, I don't think arma is the game engine you want to play with.

As already mentioned by the guys and per my PM, arma is not remotely close to a "naval simulator". The game engine is not kind to any sort of water vessel.

Its STILL common for me to see a 120meter ship suddenly for no reason jump 500 meters into the air !

Not sure if you were asking. I'm guess you could scale EVERY addon down by 100. ie a 120m ship now 1.2meters long, but;

a) I don't think miniture AI function properly.

b) I don't think the engine physics can be modified to make small addons act like they aren't toys.

c) I don't think you can reduce the waves structure at sea (maybe someone can correct me)

[JDog 11]

Gnat;1730546']I'm guess you could scale EVERY addon down by 100.

Wow how awesome would that be. Bullet trajectories would be so much tighter and move accurate! Chernarus would be filled with Everests and Kilimanjaros! A factory would be like the mines of Moria! Seriously though... once I'm done with my carrier... this sounds tempting lol.

/endofftopicness

[DaSquade 0]

Jdog, afaik you can't downscale units as it would mess up the animations (not sure but afaik it does -> hence why there are no childeren in arma, well vbs2 has some on the other hand). On the other hand, it might indeed be something nice to try out for those with free time on their hands. That would indeed be a nice walkaround to overcome the limite in geo. But i guess you will soon find lots of obsticals. Massive waves, insane big smoke plufs for small bullets + bullet impact holes, AI micro scale behavior...

Maybe downscaling with a factor of 10 would do a better job (then your carrier is still 33.3m).

[JDog 11]

Hah I have no interest in downscaling MY carrier. But then to think of it I'd have no way of downscaling the all the stuff in the game anyway since I don't have access to it to do so lol. can't just script size changes :(

[[aps]gnat 28]

Down-scaling would likely only make any sense if it was a water only terrain and AI/players could never exit a vehicle.

Basically a big bath full of toy ships.

But as DaSquade points out ....... theres probably a whole bunch of other problems to solve, if even solvable.