stormhawkv

Yes, that's the main problem. More often than not you don't have a real world equivalent. From what I've seen I'd give the Cyrus 140 mass units and 150 mass units to the Kir. I still think the high performance of the Mk-1 EMR is not intended. I don't see why it should outperform the other 7,62mm rifles by a mile. Looks like we have to wait for the next patch to learn about BIs position on this issue.

I estimated the weight of the MX3GL at 5 kg (3,5 kg for the rifle, 1,5 kg for the launcher). That's about the same as the M14 EBR. In the game the MX3GL has 120 mass units while the Mk18 ABR has 140 weight units. The M14 is considerably lighter than 5 kg but the Mk14 has the same ingame weight as the MX3GL. Changing the multiplier to 22 will not make all guns lighter. Some will also be heavier. Guns that will be lighter by 40 or more mass units: Mk200 (40), MAR-10 (50), Mk-1 EMR (60) Guns that will be lighter by 30 mass units: Mk14, Mk18 ABR Guns that will be lighter by 20 mass units: MXM, MX SW Guns that will be lighter by 10 mass units: MX, MX3GL, Katiba, Katiba GL, Zafir Guns that will be heavier by 10 mass units: Sting, PDW2000, TRG-20, TRG-21, TRG-21 EGLM, GM6 Lynx Guns that will be heavier by 20 or more mass units: Vermin (20), SPMG (40), M320 LRR (90) Thanks, that helps a lot.

I don't have a problem with that limit either, but it means a soldier with 33% load will have 50% load. 50% becomes 75% and you will experience fatigue gain equal to the added weight. Making the heavier guns even heavier is not an option in my opinion. Since there is no 1:1 real world counterpart it's partly up to artistic freedom and I don't think it would be a good idea to make the Mk-1 that heavy. Atm the 7,62mm rifles weight between 100 and 160 mass units and most of them are noticable heavier than guns of comparable weight. I think the values I posted (based on the 22 thing) could be a solution to this. Thank you. Some time ago I saw a video about a russian 12,7x54mm rifle that resembles the Kir except it was a bullpup design but I couldn't find it.

ASP-1 Kir and Cyrus. The problem I see here IS the relationship between the guns. Lets take the 29 ratio from the Mk14. To reach it the Zafir has to weight 220 mass units, 400 for the M320 LRR. That's one third of a soldiers maximum carrying capacity which means he cannot carry more than 42 kg. To me this seems too extreme. I took the SIG 556 DMR because it looks exactly like the Mk-1 EMR. The only difference is the caliber. Even if you slap on 0,5 kg it weights only 4,8 kg, which is less than the M14 EBR or the estimated weight of the MX3GL. No matter how I look at it, the relationship between the guns always seems to be off.

I just noticed weight values in ArmA 3 are usually multiples of two, so maybe it's better to go with multiples of ten to not make it unnecessarily complicated. My suggestion: NATO P09 - 20 4-five - 30 Vermin - 60 MXC - 80 MX - 90 MXM - 100 MX SW - 100 Mk-1 EMR - 100 MX3GL - 110 MAR-10 - 130 SPMG - 240 M320 LRR - 310 CSAT Rook-40 - 20 Zubr .45 - 30 Sting - 60 Katiba Carbine - 80 Katiba - 90 Rahim - 100 Katiba GL - 110 ASP-1 Kir - 120 Cyrus - 140 Zafir - 170 Navid - 220 GM6 Lynx - 250 AAF ACP-C2 - 20 PDW2000 - 40 Mk20C - 70 Mk20 - 80 Mk20 EGLM - 100 Mk200 - 100 Mk18 ABR - 110 FIA TRG-20 - 70 TRG-21 - 80 Mk14 - 90 TRG-21 EGLM - 100 Any ideas for the missing guns? Does someone know their real world counterparts?

Ah, I heard about that "multiply with 22" thing, but didn't realise how it works. Here's what some guns should be when you multiply their weight in kg with 22: Vermin - 60 Mk20 - 75 Mk14 - 90 Mk-1 EMR - 95 Mk18 ABR - 110 Zafir - 165 Navid - 220 SPMG - 240 GM6 Lynx - 255 M320 LRR - 310

Ok, initspeed and weight of the Mk-1 should be reduced and while this is done they can take care of the other DMRs, too. Most GL versions of assault rifles seem to weight around 5 kg which is 11 lb (~3,5 kg for rifle, ~1,5 kg for launcher). M14/Mk14 is 9 lb, M14 EBR/Mk18 is 11 lb, SIG 556 DMR/Mk-1 is 9,5 lb. I'd say put the DMRs between the assault rifles and their GL versions (or same weight in case of Mk18).

Before we file a bug report, we should ensure that the information isn't outdated like Agent()()9 wrote. But it really could have happened as you wrote, Brisse. To come back to the weights of the DMRs I have to say I prefer an authentic approach much more than "balancing" the guns against each other. That's exactly what I want to avoid. ^^

Problem solved, can be closed: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19870 But this is still an issue: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19947

Got them. NATO P09 - 20 4-five - 30 Vermin - 40 MXC - 80 MX - 100 MXM - 120 MX3GL - 120 MX SW - 120 Mk-1 EMR - 160 MAR-10 - 180 SPMG - 200 M320 LRR - 220 CSAT Rook-40 - 20 Zubr .45 - 30 Sting - 50 Katiba Carbine - 80 Katiba - 100 Katiba GL - 120 Rahim - 100 Zafir - 180 ASP-1 - 120 Cyrus - 160 Navid - 220 GM6 Lynx - 240 AAF ACP-C2 - 20 PDW2000 - 30 Mk20C - 70 Mk20 - 80 Mk20 EGLM - 100 Mk18 ABR - 140 Mk200 - 140 FIA TRG-20 - 60 TRG-21 - 70 TRG-21 EGLM - 90 Mk14 - 120 I looked up some real-life weights and one thing I noticed is that most DMRs are lighter or at least not heavier than GL versions of assault rifles.

Ah, good to know. So I have to look them up separately. Thank you! I'm pretty sure Brisse was talking about the ingame mechanics not reality.

Afaik inertia is tied to mass and therefore the inertia of the Mk-1 EMR should be better than the inertia of the Zafir but worse than the inertia of the Mk200.

I will have a closer look at the weight of the DLC guns when the update is live in 6 or so hours. I don't know their stats and constantly changing between stable and dev is going on my nerves.

I don't think this is needed. Large rifles already don't fit into backpacks even though their mass could be stored there. Their weight doesn't have to be ultra realistic, but it needs to reflect their real world differences, which is not given when the Zafir is only 10 or 15% heavier than the Mk-1 EMR. I imagine something like this: all pistols - 20 all SMGs - 40 all carbines - 60 all assault rifles - 80 Mk18, Mk14, MXM, Rahim, Mk-1 EMR - 100 all GL versions, MXSW - 120 MK200 - 140 Zafir - 160 Easy to do, not far from what we have atm and (imo) close enough to reality. I know, but that's not the point.

These values really need to be tweaked. The 4-five is twice as heavy as a P07 and as heavy as a TRG-20 while the Mk-1 EMR weights as much as the Titan MPRL.

So the mass of the Zafir was increased by 20 and the Mk-1 still has a mass of 160. That's way too much. The Rahim has a mass of 100. MXM has 120, Mk18 has 140 last time I checked.

Does that mean a loaded Zafir and nothing else? If so, loadout 2 should be heavier by the weight of a smoke grenade. This is more a problem with the guns and not with the mags because in reality 7 empty rifle mags are heavier than one empty box mag. In my opinion LMGs should be at least 50% heavier than rifles of the same caliber.

I also noticed the Zafir was rechambered to 7,62mm R. Who came up with this idea? MGs that fire rim ammunition need an internal system that pulls the cartrigdes backwards out of the ammo belt and inserts them into the subjacent chamber. The Zafir has belt-feed, barrel and ejection of the empty cartridges on the same level. There is no room for such a system. I don't have a problem with guns that are rechambered to a caliber that suits their role better but in my opinion this goes a bit too far. Upvoted.

The bipod of the Zafir 7,62mm still doesn't touch the ground when deployed.

I just noticed the Rahim still has a railguard on its 6 o'clock rail where the new bipod is attached.

The Cyrus still has a misplaced IR laser/flashlight.

The bipod of the Zafir LMG now hovers above the surface when deployed.

Deploying the sniper rifles makes the sniper sink into the ground to the point where the bipod is attached to the rifle. Most noticeable from 3rd person. Deploying a Zafir makes the gunner sink into the ground, too but to a much lesser extent. It still looks weird though.

Also, the Mk14 should be heavier than the Mk18 ABR but atm it's lighter.

To me it looks more like the MAR-10 is the counterpart of the Kir because both weapons are used by soldiers of the recon group while the Cyrus is used by the CSAT sharpshooter.