B_Fox

Again I'm not here to say Arma 4 is going to be trash. I understand that Arma is a complex game trying to simulate things that sometimes can't even be simulated by dedicated sims. Thats why the thread name is what it is. What if Arma 4 comes out and its the best god damn infantry simulator ever. It can simulate battalion level combat but also still be a first/third person shooter with great gun play and really good ai that can sweep through buildings, deploy static weapons and use all the in game stances, first aid, etc,etc. But the only problem you can't mod in anything other than camo's and weapons and custom made buildings. No vehicles, no new ai, no new buildings, etc, etc. We got the game we wanted but at what cost. I've played games like this made by that dev team I mentioned earlier, Graviteam. Steel Armor Blaze Of War was such a game but even the most die hard fans including those crazy Russians and Ukrainians gave up modding it. Stating it was too difficult, mod tool documentations were lacking, the devs where unhelpful. And thats why Arma 3 could sell for 10years straight.

Sure but Arma is my jam. Just because you criticize something doesn't mean you hate it, sometimes you criticize it cause you love it so much and would like to see it be better. Its like watching those VBS videos and getting shown all those interesting features that could be in Arma but isn't. And didn't the guy who made PUBG get his start in Arma🤔 This problem isn't unique to Arma. I play warthunder and there are a lot of things that are disappointing/frustrating in that game but I still play it and enjoy it.

I did say Arma 3 was the better game after all. Thank you, thank you, i try😉

I don't think Genesis was all that doomy and gloomy tbh. I've seen worse on these forums when Apex come out. Even before that people complained that all the factions used the same static weapons, CSAT helmet was stupid, Arma 3 is a game while Arma 2 was a real sim. And that with the right ai mods the ai in Arma2 still outmatches Arma 3. I somewhat agree with this sentiment Arma 3 feels faster, sleeker, easier, better. While Arma 2 feels awkward, rough, bulky, instead of some well trained solder you feel... fat, you feel inexperienced, you have to fumble around to pull out your grenades, a short jog and you're fat ass is winded, the rifle only good for general area suppression at that point. Since also deaths had animations mods that made the player or ai go unconscious had an effect of paranoia, "Is that guy dead or just wounded?" The town construction set, ambient animals, ambient vehicles, ambient people meant provided a easy way to populate a mission area and with integrated AI civ questioning it lent itself well to COIN/irregular forces gameplay. (imo at least) Arma 2 was more focused around that sort of "fat ass, not so special forces, is that a rock or a grenade!" realism you would find in our own world. But I wouldn't recommend Arma 2 to a friend who is now starting out. Arma 3 is just a better game easier to play, to edit, to mod, easier to spectate AI, etc. All that to say Arma 2 is like making all nature juice, you have to find a fruit tree, then find a way to get the fruit down, then clean, cut and prepare, then maybe strain out the pulp, then sweeten with sugar. While Arma 3 is a pack of Tang, toss it into water and your done!

One of the best strategy games I've played is Graviteam Tactics and if anyone has been on the forums for that game they can tell you that Andrey (the game dev) is stubborn, can be rude and does not bow to pressure. If you suggest something that he doesn't like or he feels doesn't belong in the game he will tell you what he things of you "fanciful" idea. But Andrey and the team work towards a clear vision of what they want their game to be and improve the game megabyte by megabyte. All that to say yes I know people make games, but sometimes staying on this path of improvement is hard and thats why I named the thread what I did instead of naming it something rough like, Arma 4 is going to be trash. Arma 4 will be whatever the devs want. So if the dev team decides to follow a trend of making the game more accessible (which may not be a bad thing) instead of this hardcore, mil sim, with clunky controls but radical AI then the community's job is to fill that void. But again that kind of logic may not be to everyone's liking and some will just get tired and leave.

Modders are the only thing that keep Arma alive, so i have no doubt that as long as Arma attracts skilled,devoted people Arma 4 will be a awesomely modded game. Even tho genesis complained that a lot of the deeper aspects of the game is locked away which hampers the true abillity for modders to take the game to that next level. But at least it still benefits from the devs wanted the game to be modded. And CDLC has been a bit of a hit and miss kinda thing. GM was alright, SOG was great, CSLA was disaster. But the overall concept of CDLC interesting.

I just finished watching Genesis's video on his break up with Arma 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-hKBnUxUgI and It's kinda got me thinking. What would I do or where would In go if Arma 4 isn't meant for me? First i must say i am a single player only type of guy. That weird type of guy who likes to see his missions play themselves and watch the AI fight. IMO there are games that are made around multiplayer that do that far better than Arma could. But to me Arma's strengths has been its editor, AI and mods. What if Arma 4 comes out and its not that, it morphed into something different but not to different, a clone of something? Or should i say its become a clone of itself. Like a shadow of its former self, chasing its own trend. It enviously looks at what other people had, sitting there thinking, "I started this but yet they grow fat off my hard work!" Wishing to be so much like them that it cut itself up and neglected to look at the beauty that was in the mirror. Like having nagging friends who see you for you and offers advice, whether it can be achievable or not, you know it comes from a good place, a good heart and mind. But yet you go on looking and cutting to fit that mold, the mold you started by being outside the mold. Truly! you've done it! You've outplayed yourself! Or what if, I'm just a obsolete player? What if my niche is getting increasingly smaller and smaller and i just don't know it yet? Maybe this is my brush with the fake reality I've been obsessed with? What if I'm so much of a armaholic that i refuse to be rejected by my lover. The same thing happened in sim racing and Arial combat sims ai has become of lesser importance while multiplayer has been the priority since... well since a while now. Maybe that was always the goal. Am I just a relic? Grand kids grown up and my game out of touch, out of time?! TL;DR Arma 4 might be more squad than Arma, more MP focused than SP focused. Maybe because that has always been the end goal. Maybe everyone but a small few want that. The world has changed but we've remained the same.

I'm glad you kinda see the my point, its kinda hard to articulate and make it make sense. Of course I cannot and will not tell someone they can or can't play with "X" mod because it is unrealistic, isn't good or up to my standards. In your case you have to use a AI mod that won't generate waypoints and confuse the AI from what you have planed. In a similarly sense I just make missions for the enjoyment of watching the AI fight and I too face that problem of the AI getting confused because a mod has told the AI to do something that might be realistic but ends up being a bit pointless because of the situation or because of the mission.

Well with super accurate weapons (usually from mods or dlc) and little encumbrance the AI can turn around (full 180), shoot (1 round) and kill. Of course for a trained sniper or marksman you can excuse that but for the everyday grunt? of course not, that should be impossible! Now I do not know if that's what you mean but the AI has built in parameters to measure a variety of things that would affect this such as; encumbrance, stamina and suppression.There is a whole thread dedicated to AI facts and Myths. The AI has flaws for sure and from what I understand AI mods can tamper with surface level stuff but can never truly change core AI behavior. This is why there will always be the same flaw in the AI no matter how many mods you slap on top of it. But my point was what someone might deem realistic might not be realistic for others or for every situation. IMHO I believe in the search for realism we ended up just bogging down the AI with tools that they don't know how or when to properly use and I would think a more simpler and somewhat unrealistic approach would be more successful (in vcom a AI with a tripod can deploy a heavy weapons without the actual gun). I also believe that intelligent and even unintelligent behavior should be added even though it would be unrealistic behavior. And to get the AI to do specific tasks or orders should be left to specific waypoints or modules as seen in lambs, RHS, and Iron Front.

I've seen this convo time and time again and have asked myself the same thing but what is realistic AI? What does the AI have to do to be realistic and would realistic AI be any fun to watch or even play against? Or is that something people say when the AI isn't doing what they want it to do?

This is cool

Wow a Fedorov rifle!

Control https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/control Sale ends 6/17/2021 at 11:00 AM so get right on it!

Interesting. A simplified Arma on a new engine and on new platforms (Xbox and PS), excited to see it!