Robster

I would recommend to look for the most comfortable stereo headset you can find... nothing so fancy or expensive... in my own experience buying the most expensive or fancy headset is a waste of money, since there are a lot of good quality stereo headsets but not many of them are comfortable enough, whatever may be the price or quality of materials...

And that's why this is so rewarding ;) I did already in post #14... not #12... but I didn't "separate" anything as you say -more assumptions- I did copy&paste only needed points for making those bodies... ??? Total mass change anytime you change that value even in just one single point... If you want to start all over again delete mass in component window and also delete it from named properties window, save, open it again, select all points at geo lod and assign your new mass, then save close and open again to check your desired changes ... I never do something like that but all of this is for learning purposes... Regarding mass values, I haven't found any specific info... perhaps some tutorial about it would be good... since I guess there are some specific values for some specific kind of objects... but that's my own assumption... so do not bother really... we are all the time guessing things with BI stuff... that's our community's life :p Glad to know that, at the end of the day, you'll be mastering this stuff :dancehead: ooops! I'm a veggy freak... so coffe and a paprika paste sandwich is a quite happy meal ... and a tasty one also :p I'm in the Abel veggy groove more than into Cain's meaty sacrifice stuff... (aaaaaaahhhh rampanting music start all over again)

@gnat: raising karma here! this fellow mate doesn't need 6 cubes ... I already uploaded full working geo lod for him with 3 components: octagon and two side stairs bodies... @dude: working geo has 3 separated components that's why you see in my model 4 selected points: 2 points belong to octagon and 2 points belong to stairs block... those geometrical bodies are independent from each other -which is good to make geo lods- and all of them have faces "sticked" all around -they must have to be considered as closed objects- If you join your octagon with your neighbour blocks is bad because you make a non-convex single object and thus geometry won't work in anyway... I can respectfully see that your questions are full of prejudices about what you think it should be but not really connected to how it is indeed... so your learning process is such slow cause you assume some noisy beliefs as truth due to some kind of former misconception in your development, as a modeler naturally... and thus you are making wrong questions... flex your mind... let enlightment come into you and despite any previous assumption to move ahead... you may relay your confidence in the best teacher you can have ... yourself... (aaaaaahhhhhhhhh... music begins to play at background) For instance, you want a quick walkthrough about assigning mass... but you do not explain what is your issue with it... so, why do you think i know more than you know about it? So, you may see this does not have any relation with gathering knowledge through experience but mojo... Further evidence: I can't see how having two points overlapping each other can correct. you said it pal, why can't you see it as being correct...? so, raise awareness of thyself and awake your consciousness about not being able to see... ask yourself: why I can not see? what do I need to see? WHY do I need to see... ? simple straight questions... deepsh*t... (murmur.... swooooosh... music turns into some fluffy kind of silence) As you walk your path in search for the truth... I'll walk mine right into the kitchen... and some breakfast ... cause this pondering made me a bit hungry yummm!

you're getting closer... you have 32 points, so I presume you have 16 vertices for your octagon shaped platform... and also you have 16 vertices on your stairs block, 8 vertices each... that's good but you only have 34 faces... ? tris, quads? if you make things only with tris you should have 52 polys... which is the minimun amount of triangle faces needed to make those 3 closed components sorrounding octagon shaped platform has 16 triangle faces; on top you have 6 tris plus 6 tris at bottom... total tris present in this component = 16 + 6 + 6 = 28 triangle polygons or 28 tris faces then each block component has 12 tris faces, so total polys is 28 + 12 + 12 = 52 polys ... good! So, make your tris in this lod... you should know how to do it yet... if you don't, read again my first post in this thread... When you reach that amount of points and corresponding triangle faces distributed in three components you will be near to success... Where does it say if the component has issues? You must check if your components are working right: 1. so you do find components in structure menu, then find non-convexities at the same menu to see if you get anything in red color: if all components are ok, there won't be anything red to see in your oxygen viewports... I mean, after seeking for non convexities it seems like nothing happens when geometries are ok... oxygen viewports looks the same with no changes at all... otherwise, oxygen will show some red points or red edges complaining about troublesome parts... if you know which component(s) is(are) having issue(s) then select it(them) and solve corresponding issue(s) using component convex hull option inside structure menu... 2. If you did apply those convex functions, then check everything again... I mean, repeat the above procedure again to see if you keep having red dots: if you keep having issues, you can undo last steps and repeat them again using another convex function... 3. when every issue is adressed and solved then yo do the last thing: convert all into sharp edges and apply mass according structure: volume, materials involved, mesh points, etc... When I highlight my entire model, it shows 32 points and 34 faces. Is this what you have as well? if you look closer at geo uploaded by me you will notice that oxygen shows useful info regarding number of point and faces, sections, selected faces and size on disk... read all that looking at left bottom of your oxygen gui... Every face I select either has 3 or 4 points, and I've made sure to sharpen the edges. which means that you're playing with tris and quads... better convert all into tris, so you will be sure that your model does not have any amount of "extra fat" on it... anyways, if really you know what you're doing you can do tris or quads and everything should work the same...

lol as I read your comments i can see that you are still a bit confused... which is a natural part of the learning process... perhaps if you come around later you might realize that you could understand all that was explained... get some rest and it might be helpful for you to look at bis sample models EDIT: I could clearly see what you are missing... you made only platform surroundings faces but did not put any face on top or below and your stairs do not have correct shape... it seems like you copy&paste res lod which doesn't work in this situation stairs must have a very basic ramp shape... do not argue with me or ask me why... this is how it is in arma engine... ok? so, basic geo has a platform with faces on top, bottom and surroundings and two basic boxes like block with a proper ramp according to stairs angle... To make this I took all your 16 surrounding corner points that shape platform and made corresponding faces Then I took 4 external corners of one stairs block and made corresponding faces extruding them to match platform Then I made the same thing for the other stairs block... Then "find components" again and then oxygen told me that main platform has some convexity issues, so I selected that component and made a "component convex hull" and it was solved... to finish, I selected all, I made sharp edges and introduce mass (1 mass = 1 kg) as working geo has 32 points I set 3200 as mass value (100 kg per point... perhaps It's a bit too much) here you can see how it looks once you set mass, save, close and open again the thing... there you have a new mass component which means mass is present at geo lod showing blue dots it looks like this which is obsviously different and it does not have any extra point as you might find looking at your geo if you still can't grasp the thing I guess I am a failure as a teacher... and I will never post anything around here :(

this is how it should be looking

lol nop that's not right... I do not see all faces and some other should not be there... you better download working geos and roadways already attached in my last post... and see how it has to be done... you can import it directly into your model... and do not forget to tell where you failed at this very forum... so others can learn too... saludos washo!

You're welcome :) If oxygen says something is non closed is because you have some missing or flipped faces... did you try checking faces into oxygen... Also remember that everytime you merge anything you have to do all the checks again, since overall shape was changed... special attention deserves that "find components" function because some components may disappear... If it was already triangulated nothing happens, so it's a good advice to do tris again in oxygen since you can find some lost or unknown point or face in there... ---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ---------- There you have your geo: 3 components 32 points 52 faces total... all sharp edges and 3200 mass learn some ;) LAST EDIT: Same thing with roadways included (top geo faces only)

When I try and find non-closed, all my points light up red. I think this has something to do with a "No points in mesh" error when I import my model. I really do not know... I ignore which external tool you are using to import... there are some plugins to do the importing job and perhaps you should be studying some of them... If I triangulate my model, wouldn't every face be a convexity? When you convert quads to tris you shouldn't be breaking convexity at all (if already present), since those new tris polys remain coplanar If I merge near, my geometry becomes completely messed up (when using detect) That's probably because you are selecting the whole thing or more than one component at the same time... then you have to select by single components or even manually taking only needed points to get a single body... thinking in terms of boxes is the easy way... but you can make complex rounded shapes also... please read again my older post because I forgot to mention Mass... I mean, mass+sharp edges make geometries working... if it doesn't work I suggest to work on a very basic shape... even not the whole model but a single part... when you get it working then you can move on to the next part just while you grasp the idea about validating geometries... it might be a bit easier to find any mistake in the process... and stairs definitely are a ramp like shape in all models because if you let them to be squarish your character will be jumping or will get stuck when trying to walk over them... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61945206/example1.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61945206/example2.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61945206/example3.png maybe these examples give you some ideas... look how geometries are not related to roadways in some cases... i did not make all geometries which means that if you shoot stairs bullets might go through... but they will stop in geo walls anyways... so i do not need geo for stairs in this case... got it? perhaps I have to do intermediate geo floors to prevent someone shooting at ceilings on bottom floors and hitting people at upper floors... are you getting the idea???? remember that you can assign penetration properties on components to simulate concrete, wood, granite, etc... check out at p:\ca\data\penetration .. you can assign these definitions into rvmat in geometries... CTRL+A -> CTRL+E My roadway LOD behaves as expected. I refer to my example What does it mean when my structure is non closed? Is it a face that's non closed? If a face is shaded, does that mean it is closed? Let's take as example a single box shape... attached pic for better further explanation normally it should have 6 faces/polygons and 8 points/vertices... right? the same shape with tris has 12 faces/polys and the very same 8 points/vertices... well, sometimes happens that this shape may have more points because some vertices were not joined ... for example a box corner that has more than 1 point and has 3 points... which means tree polys/faces that are not joined togheter... they are single separate polys... it looks as a closed box shape but it's only a bunch of isolated polys arranged to look as a single box... got it? there you have to select near points and merge them till your box has standard or usual number of points and polys as stated before... then, we can say an structure, a single component or a shape is closed when all their faces are joined at their vertices and all their vertices are joined to the same shape... there are no isolated vertices nor polys alone (for geo lods those isolated points or faces don't work)... in a closed shape all points and faces belong to the same shape as happens with 8 points box example... if I delete any face on that box it won't be considered as closed... even when having 8 points... a face will be missing... A single face all alone or isolated is a non closed shape and it has to be connected somehow to another faces to make a "geometry working" shape... the idea is to get some "air enclosed inside the bottle", or better said, inside the "closed box" I do not know what a shadow may mean in a given context... and I never stick to perspective view in oxygen when dealing with this stuff... I just use oxygen to validate geometries... if something is wrong i make adjustments using an external tool... i.e.: blender How do I stop oxygen from triangulating my faces on import? Why do you want to prevent oxygen to triangulate polys...? that's not a bad thing since GPU will be processing tris and afaik binarized models are all tris converted anyways... so tris or quads is just for easy design purposes... Anyways, I do not know how to prevent that, but as you can make tris you can make squares: CTRL+A -> Structure -> Squarize (OR) Squarize all lods

GENERAL TIPS: - every single component in geometry lods must be all closed and mostly convex shapes... all closed means you have to make all faces... your stairs didn't have any polys on top... you must make those polys and then copy only top polys and paste them on roadway lod if you want characters walking over them... there is a tool for checking faces... look here - go to geo lod and press CTRL+A (select all) press CTRL+U (sharp edges) this is mandatory for all geo lods... otherwise (smooth edges) they don't work EDIT2: Oooops!!! and don't forget to assign MASS to every points in Geo LOD XD ... I guess 1 mass = 1 kg CTRL+A -> Then put some value at left bottom corner in oxygen main window... - your stairs geo must be like this (from side view) the same apply for roadway (which may be the same top polys in geo... - also may be convenient to convert geo lods and roadway into TRIS to notice if oxygen doesn't like something... CTRL+A -> Structure -> Triangulate - always remember to check as this : Structure -> Topology -> Find non-closed Structure -> Convexity -> Find non-convexities if oxygen doesn't like anything it will show red dots where the problem is... when you fix'em, geometries get working... how to fix'em? - non-closed points: usually you may go to: points -> merge near - non convexities: once you did : Structure -> Topology - Find components ... then select each troublesome single component and: Structure -> Convexity -> convex hull OR Structure -> Convexity -> component convex hull there are more options in there but i really do not know how to use them and what they do :P nice model BTW cheers! EDIT: Many of those tips do not apply for Res LOD since this is eye candy and can have open polys, non closed points, smooth and sharp edges... etc

Once I wanted to know how geo lods worked I began to see BI models... then I found that fire geo is used in certain models... Regarding their specific purpose, these FireGeo LODs tend to be more detailed -gracile?- than a simple geo LOD... but both basic geo and fire geo admit surface definitions... to tell how bullets will collide on a certain object, going through or not, etc... Afaik collision detection problems depends on size and overlapping vertex rather than geo lod type... so, whenever oxygen says any geo lod is ok, I've found it working without any problem in-game... Whenever I have geo related issues it's been because there was something wrong inside lod, components, etc... for instance, finding a roadway bad placed over a geo lod... anyhow, when I've tried to change default model size in VIS3PE I've gotten weird results sometimes... Bad collision detection also depends on character model itself... I guess you've seen that bumpy quad motor bike crossing bridges, custom or not, have you? lol in ArmA1 I saw MBTs turning upside down just like waffles when attempting to cross bridges hahaha We also find some gaps regarding humal models... if you take, for example, a plain ramp BI model and put it at different heights over the ground, you'll notice how characters collides at certain heights with different results: up to 80 cms -> character soldier collides, can't go through between 50/40 cms aproximately -> collision detection works and human character goes inside/outside model by pressing v key... present roadway is not detected (I guess it's still too high) about 10-30 cms above ground -> character walks over it... roadways is detected whenever it goes straight walking or by pressing v key... (BTW why these simulated human beings do not jump by default? c'mon it's just a simple jump... I know engine doesn't need it, but that's something oftenly used in RL) Have you noticed collision on any fence type model... ??? well, any wall that goes down then become "virtual", I mean, it won't have any Geo LOD working... just like any clutter like type of thing (clutter type models does not use any geo lods, even when model used for clutter have'em) Have you seeing AI going trough hescos BI models??? or AI zombies going trough doors... ??? it might really piss you off when you're making an outpost into the mountains... or you can learn to deal with frequent complaints... So, I tend to check models behaviour in-game... if bullet hitting is working properly, then one basic geo lod is good enough for me... until I find a bug or someone show me a good reason to make up my mind... But, can you tell us about your own experience regarding collision detection issues?

erm... but doing as this you will be having some kind of warning on RPT saying bad simulation type or something like that, just like BIS barrel object... did you try with "dammage = no" in GeoLOD and deleting class = house in the same LOD ??? I guess it might behaviour the same with less coding stuff...

I think you don't need FireGeo LOD for that model, since it does not have any "holes" on it... If I have a wall with a window I can make a full wall for GeoLOD and let the FireGeo LOD deal with the open space where bullets will go trough... this way you save Polys also and model work just fine anyways... In this case you can add a bisurf RVMAT in Geo LOD and that's all... Needed RVMATs are located at p:\ca\data\penetration ... though you can make your own definitions, BIS list seems to be quite enough... There you'll find metal and wood for your own purposes. Assign a corresponding surface definition to your model's textures and then you will start to see special bullet hits... Here you have a shooting example over wooden stairs...

yup :) EDIT: Why don't you just use BI textures and make your own letter display? That's seems to be quite faster and you can stay in the safe side of modding... I mean, sometimes is not necessary to do all the stuff on your own just to get polished results...

I took a look at BI signs_e... and noticed 3 different "texture sheets", as well as many render stages for them on RVMATs... saludos!

kudos on the release!!! downloading and seeding now!

Agree and disagree... Agree, ArmA certainly is about teamwork and tactics... However, many of us get quickly bored to death doing COOPs since AI isn't that much real... I mean, you see them from far distance, you shoot that little bot... it turns 360 degrees around, then it crouches, then stands up again, running a bit, then loop: it turns 360 degrees around... I am always wondering why guys do not get boring chasing some unbelievable enemies... on the other hand, I've seen bots doing headshots with AK and one single shot at 500+ meters from distance... unbelievable also... IMO nothing compares to real human instant response... then I really feel I'm simulating a firefight, planning combat tactics, warfare, you know... So, I disagree with you when AI becomes the core of simulation... for me it's just an optional module, which is fine and, of course, is ok for single player fun... but, again, I can't see much teamwork over there... I mean it sound weird... AI teamwork gameplay... (?) I expect a real warfare simulation with hordes of troops... real human troops... in the meantime, I'll keep helping out PVP and teamwork oriented and like minded guys regarding this matter... Saludetes!

Hey MCN! that's not a big deal... but can we modify mikebart's model LODS ??? I've done some rvmats things with them but nothing else... if Mr. Bartlett agree I can tweak them to suit your requirements :D

wena ctm!!!! erm finally this baby has seen the light... congratulations !!! :D

well, this has gone definitely off topic ... :p but i'm gonna make an effort to understand you better... when you define your mask_lco.png size as told you before, you can deal with ground texture measures... a 1 meter per pixel mask means a 1 meter ground texture... but if we consider overlapping boundaries, we won't be able to see the whole clean ground texture image in 1 meter, so we might need a bigger scale on mask anyways... thus, to answer "how to set the texture to tile say once or four times?" in a given area, will involve a direct relation between mask size and terrain size... in your example, about 10m x 10m area, we should be talking about 10.24 m x 10.24 m area to match pixels with integer numbers, since numbers can be divided, but a single pixel can't -by definition there are no quarks in CG :p- ... and we do not want any misplaced pixel (ground texture) right? riiiiiiiight? so, in a terrain which is 1024 m x 1024 m with a mask file which is 1024x1024 pixels you will have 1 sq.m, ground texture... if you want the same texture four times bigger for the same piece of ground, then your mask file should be 256x256 pixels... and then you could start to notice some sort of low res ground... but I am not sure about this, since I've never made a test like that... why don't you give it a try and then you come to tell us all about your findings? perhaps you might notice the same texture size on it and then conclude that these measurement concerns could be properly related to texture base layer in projects parameters or "clutter grid" value in terrain's config.cpp I'm not sure if this is a proper answer to what you want to know... I remember that Mondkalb was worried about something like this sometime ago, but I couldn't understand what was the problem then as it seems that I can't understand it now... sorry... anyways, I assume that you already know what mask_lco.png file is, and how to deal with it, using layers.cfg file, etc... if you don't, perhaps you should be reading something else...

Hello everyone, We have these underground structures, caves and tunnels system... ok But once we are under the ground alleys, hallways and corridors look as much bright as any normal object ingame... Now I have to make some sort of soil earth roof for caves and the same problem occurs, I mean, this foundation looks a lot brighter than the terrain itself... I tried using the same texture used for surrounding terrain and the same terrain rvmat but it didn't help... So I think that this might be related to rvmat, assuming that you can manage the amount of light that any object may reflect... I want these objects become darker, with no light reflection, as its suppoused they are buried in the ground... Perhaps I'm doing it wrong and the solution comes from doing some shadow LODs or defining rvmat properties at some other LOD, i.e., geometry LOD... Any help or advice will be much appreciated :D

yes, and you are guessing right... ground textures belong to their own type: "land color" or "_lco" type, not "ico" as many confusingly say... I tried to use the same rvmat for an object texture but it didn't work, so I decided to write here with not muck luck yet Also I made an object with the clutter as proxy on top... but that didn't help neither cause at the same place there was the cave with roadway properties at bottom, so all clutter disappeared... :(

erm, but do you think it really matters? just take your cell size as base for texture... for your chosen measures, you will have 10 sq.m. for each pixel at heights -which would be 2048 px- so, if: mask size = 2048x2048 px size, then you will have 10 sq.meters of the same texture... mask size = 4096x4096 px size, => 5 sq.m. with same texture mask size = 20480x20480 px size, => 1 sq.m. same texture (I'm not sure if a mask of this size can be made) Anyhow, I've never gotten worried about how ground tiles are displayed... sometime ago someone was asking about matching texture tileable floors with walls, but I did'nt pay so much attention to it, since the engine make a texture blending instead of overlapping textures so the only way to see abrupt cuts in ground occurs when there are more than 4 different textures in the same area... and that's pretty much because of an error than anything else... saludos!

@Marc: yes, that's a clever way to work around these issues... @Path: just to stay on-a2-topic, I had experienced the very same "frustrations" and I'm trying to find a solution as you may see here

Hi there Marc! To start, you should be reading this That whole VBS2 wiki is a valuable resource as well as the community wiki... Ground texture quality is the same, as long as you use the same seamless texture images... it won't change because you change terrain cell size or whatever... On the other hand, while using a bigger sat pic you'll gain more res when flying ... look for "Isola di Capraia" to get an idea about this Regarding detail landscape, hope you've read about that fractal function over terrain resolution at distance... Anyways, performance variation is bearable noticed between 10 m and 7.5 m terrain cell sizes (perhaps this last one might help a little when drawing ground at distance, but I haven't noticed it, since I play with everything at very high)... even more, you can go down to 4 meters and still it will hold steady... I mean, you'll be able to play in MP with 10000m distance view... with a very basic template and a few other objects... once i made a one-made-day tiny 8x8 kms map with these measures... and it was all fun in CLA (r.i.p.) Poles, signs, street lights, etc... that's the surrounding stuff I mentioned before... your templates rather involve enviromental objects basically, unless you're thinking about some city like landscape, in which case your template would be composed by buildings, house and concrete stuff... a template refers for the most used elements on a map, so you can have an approximate idea about how performance will be working... so, if your map has somehow heavy stuff you will notice it at first glance... otherwise, you'll be able to go without having to step back or reverse major changes in your design... Making maps is a very time consuming task, since you're making tests all the time, specially everytime you introduce some major changes... so, using templates will help you to get a quick start. Then you can go into fine tuning introducing more detail into the scene...