graill

This thread isnt as bad as some might think. A couple of "holier than thous" repeatadly taking out of context snippits to suit their own soapbox but other wise some interesting feedback. The devs have also twice had to push this back on track as it hit some fast curves and almost derailed. Arma will always be more complicated than the arcade shooters, a turnoff to a good portion of people. To "compete" Arma would need to actually dumb down alot of details and make gameplay more simplistic or provide a setup area in which everyone was given the time they need to equip, setup an opord, loadouts etc, things a good majority simply would not do nor wait for, they simply want the deathmatch style rush and get into play. Several concerns are the "clunky" feel and lack of fluid movement as opossed to the arcade shooters. i suppose,d epending on the amount of info removed from the game in general (excluding the current engine) Arma could go on a diet and get to where the arcade shooters are, but then what is the point? We play arma for the deep game, not the insta grats nor the quick fix that some want. Arma does not need to compete, it owns the ground combat sim arena. I would rather have what we in the military call hours of boredom with moments of nail biting hell. Arma does that for me. I feel alot of the compete mentality are the newer folks that like the depth but want that arcade feel. I would pass on that. Other things are already out there. To be honest here is my solution for competing. Mass advertising, more advertising, and more advertising. The more coverage the more popular. Bis has already shown some really great vids on Arma 3. Example, a room full of joes watching the stingray looking tank getting hit and a few seconds later returning fire out of the smoke, cheers went up in that asik4 classroom and Biss gained a few more fans. Getting the word out is far more important and much more gratifying. Though i do occasionally dream about DCS and BIS getting together.......sigh. ---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ---------- @Minoza, are you supporting BF3 as superior? Correct me if i am wrong in that assumption. You are talking about the game that allows people to get of of jets, fire an rpg into a person and then get in their jet, all while vertical, all while moving about 1 mph at max altitude, and then go and do other stupid non realistic shit? The armored combat is as unrealistic and an utter joke as the fight model. Vehicle combat is just one of many many ignorant examples that game is capable of. Why would anyone want to style a game or take features from it?

I agree.

Naturally the Zombie mod, but also some very deep recon no fire missions. firing a single round results in failure.

Suprised this didnt get locked. Arma cant be compared to the simplistic play of the arcade shooters, which is everything except Arma. People that buy games like BC2, COD, BF3, want instant gratification and the simplistic gameplay, there will always be a market for those console ported games, you cant get away from it, most folks to afraid to enlist in the real military, whatever reason they use, depend on these sims for a brief taste of what they never will experience in real life,hence their popularity. With the advent of the Zombie mod Arma has gained a huge new following which is great. As long as the gameplay is kept "realistic" and Bis does not go the route of the arcade shooters they will remain the elite in terms of a military ground sim.

Enemy Ai needs a huge tweek verse what is being shown in the example vids by Bis. No one should be able to "sneak" through an outpost or base in releatively plain sight even in the opposing force uniform, thats for the movies. No one should be able to act "oddly" while walking through a base or outpost, ie; doing things out of the ordinary like having a weapon leveled and looking around inside without immeadiately warning the organic elements. No one should be able to recon an outpost will nilly (inside), someone with a strange (new) face is like throwing a lit flare and stating i am in your base. Stealing a vehicle is next to impossible or should be unles a firefight is going on and confusion and situational awareness is down. And contrary to popular belief you will die in most cases trying to get in, or out with one at an outpost or base. Assumption is the opposing force is beyond stupid, they are not, not even the green troops (i understand there are exceptions) most often it is the green troops that are most alert because they do not want to get in trouble from big sarge. Aircraft in Arma do not slide in the atmosphere as they should, no aircraft is on rails, especially helis with troops or fixed wing troop transports, some flight realism needs to be added to the aircraft part of this great sim.

In iraq we a large number of M1A2 SEP tanks hit with multiple rpgs in both the front facia and side. I have pics of one Abrams with 7 rpg hits. We had many with side penetrations and GD had to fly in and review these as they should not have penetrated the side as they did, one such rpg (sorry guys cant disclose type of rpg) went through the side, missed the gunners face by an inch or so sandblasting him with hot metal (he was fine but toasted a bit) and went through the main sight and stopped in the breech. Rpgs hit the battery boxes, tracks, engines, etc, at no time did a single rpg stop an ABRAMS it was usally multiples, those firing were usually killed instantly because tankers use thermals at all times. Some tanks after being hit and moving a fair distance with rpgs would break down and need to be brought in by maint, but this is all common combat knowledge from investigations. During the time i was there we only had two heavies destroyed by rpg fire and this was the crew lighting the tank up because a larger force was trying to close in on it and take it, read, another tank (one of ours) lighting it up. There are a few sites with some data on the push during the first iraq war (i was a lowly sgt at that time) and our tanks taking rounds from enemy main tank fire. Bis should contact Aberdeen to get some info.

Hey folks, not a big poster but a troopy led me here so i will throw out a bit of input. Just some feedback from a retired vet (GS now) training mechanics in rifle fundementals and engagements for rear area fighting. Vib (VBS2) is good, but you must realize one thing, it isnt real. A person can be a pro at using a mouse and keyboard but joe could suck dunken donuts at using a real weapon, not that bad they hurt themselves but not the warfighter temperment and close quarters reactions in real life most combat kilos have. As far as i see it the Arma series is the only combat sim out there worth a whit, that said, the simulation not being real, what mechanics (game) do you feel need to be harder on a task that is 100% sensory based? A soldier in real life has a host of sensory oprtions to choose from and digest whereas the PC Sim soldier has just eye/hand coordination to present in order to take down targets, and with the host of mouse deadners out there bult into hardware, what is the point? Even seasoned combat arms soldiers will tell you sims like this are good for hand eye coordination but precious little else. hell, i have even watch joe try to make fine line markers on my screens (they end paying the price) to try and cheat the hip fire solutions, of course civies use these "modifications as well, moreso in fact. This happens in the arcade games like COD and BC2/BF3 and in Arma, you cant stop it unless you are breathing down a persons neck. Breathing, how the weapon is held, the particular individuals ability to transpose range and sight picture into firing accuracy, are different in every single individual, how this occurrs in real life is night and day verse a PC sim, though BIS does a great job at trying to emulate it. I am good with a multitude of weapons, not gifted as some are but i would make you think three or four times before moving out with me infront of you, that said i have seen soldiers whose shooting/combat skill is otherwordly, yet on sims they plain suck. How do you compensate for this? You cant. You can only generalize and set baselines. In asking BIS to make shooting harder, whom do you want to make shooting harder for? Civilians? Soldiers? Everyone? About the only suggestion i can make is to make the AI godlike to give you the PC challenge you want, otherwise i feel, from experience and real world experience, the Arma Series is about right. If you want some real (snicker) difficult aiming accuracy i suggest you get a few tours in combat arms down in ganny or some other hotspot to check out the differences. (grin) ---------- Post added 04-20-2012 at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was 04-19-2012 at 11:40 PM ---------- Alot of innaccuracies being processed here in this one thread, i will touch on this one, though i could spend a great deal of time making corrections (Grin) "Heavy Barrels are good for long range, but it also depends on how far away" With this statement i take it you have never done any long range shooting. Do you know what a "heavy barrel" is actually for? Hint, it isnt long range, you should have stuck with your first guess. Do you understand arm sway? Take the person with beanstalks for arms verse corn fed Billy from iowa with meathooks for arms, your saying one type of simulated sway is good for eveyone in a PC sim? How will you accomplish this for someone that in real life has no arm sway penalty and can run and gun (soldier or civy), and then they play this sim and have to compensate for another simulated mechanic with zero sensory feedback? Hmmm, i think until they develop a mouse or some other prosthetic to induce these forces and make you compensate in reallife in front of your PC, do not go overboard with comments on how to make Arma any harder or easier. And to the other poster typing about this sim making it easier to use/shoot a weapon in real life........lots to learn i thinks. Sorry mod had to comment on that one. Anyway, Are we all thinking about building this piece of equipment (Arma 3) to the point of it being overdone and overcomplicated for a PC combat sim, i am quite sure the developers are thinking about it.

Take this with a grain of salt, my observations on finishing the games at max level difficulty (and many irritating deaths) Ai target aquire: Not sure at max level but the aiming and aquisition of >me< by other targets was over godlike (at long range with any weapon) to include xray vision and vision able to zero me when land masses were totaly obscured. Many times i went to max range of a sniper rifle, out of visual without a scope, and would take a pot shot to check reactions, the enemy ai would stop with its back turned, weapon still down and slowly turn, rotating to face me and then raise its weapon and fire and score a kill (my not moving on purpose to check this behaviour out and my leaning just a bit behind a tree or rock with a background. This also happens at close range when the enemy doesnt know where the player is, it will fire through a wall or over long distance in rolling hills of grass, this was my favorite. Apparently they have satnav resources i didnt have access to. The ai was very unrealistic and the immersion was destroyed at this level. Knowing the computer would "cheat" to zero you and not need line of sight gave me all the info i needed to easily bypass, and on many occasions, run behind, or crawl behind, i am talking inches away from the enemy, apparently they dont like to turn around and engage in hand to hand and dont mind someone behind them tapping them on the back which was amusing in its own right. I did this on many many occasions. Enemy ai was also at fault in long range engagements drawing them to contact, this meaning you engage, at max range, and then run like hell down a hill or other obscurring object to your predetermined spot and wait for the ai to happily run into your killbox and bang, bang, easy kills. Proffesionals DO NOT CHASE, just an fyi. Weapon textures and soldier textures, all textures to be frank (in my opinion) are still not up there with titles like BC2 or MW. this is with a monster system and everything turned up max, colors were to muted for my taste and i longed for somehting remotely close to a real green at times. I wondered if muted colors were the order of the day. Not that they were bad, just not up there enough for my tastes. i guess i am spoiled by BC2 graphics. Night missions were pretty close to what happens when one side has nods and one does not. Reaction of enemy ai to targets being killed next to them was unrealistic though, they did not run, they dropped in place and after several seconds would stand back up and seem oblivious to the dead npcs next to them. Wounding and bleed out if the medic doesnt get to you is an ok penalty, though some personal first aid should be available. If i am able to crawl and look around i should be able to help my self a bit. As a side note i have never seen so many sniper rifles in one area in my life, must have been a sale.......... Worth the price of admission, though there is much room for improvement in ARMA2. :bounce3: SFC. 22 years Army, Retired.