Editor upgrade / additions

[b00tsy 28]

I would (and no doubt more ArmA users) very much like to see either the wizard updated with more auto generated features build in as selectable options or I would like to see additions in the editor which makes it easyer to generate a nice mission.

I already mentioned something like this briefly on the Steam forum, but I thought it might be worth discussing it in more detail on the BI home forum.

I think the editor is a true gem, I think it is really great that BI included this in the game. I am also amazed at what it can do, basicaly anything is possible...if you know how to do it. And there lies a problem I think.

For some one like me (one of many) that does not has a talent for scripting and never will be good at it and even has trouble getting it right with all the tutorials and guides it is very hard near to impossible to create a cool interesting mission with all the fancy smancy stuff the 'scripters mission creators' use.

After messing with the editor for a long time and reading guides and tutorials I do know how to script some little things, but thats just copy/paste work from guides that actually worked when I tried. Most things I try and even a lot of the 'copy/paste' things do not work a lot of the time which leads to a bunch of swearing behind the PC out of frustration not being able to build a 'cool' custom mission.

BI advertises the editor as 'easy to use' and 'inuitive' and that basicaly anyone can create custom missions and share them with the community. I think the editor in itself is indeed understandable and efficient. The problem is that without scripting there is not much you can do with the editor other then placing some troops and buildings and setting some waypoints and a simple 'end trigger' as a mission ending or use the wizard that is to limited in many ways.

I would like to see some of the great possibilities directly build in to the editor without having to script it all manually and most important not having to dig through forums/guides/tutorials read it, try it my self, repeated failure, check the guides again, failure again, and then at the end being frustrated that I cant make it work.

BI, please build some more things into the editor that enables you to create a full, nice and interesting mission. I am not asking that the editor chews everything for me without having to script a thing, I am asking for some additions that auto generates conditions and options.

If I want to move a groep from A to B to C I only have to select 'waypoints' and click the map and it auto generates the movement. You can even customize the condition of the movement like behaviour, speed and formation, it is all nicely build it into the editor. you do not have to script the movement, behaviour, etc. If this auto generation would be implemented in more things then the editor truly would become "easy to use" as it is advertised.

I would like to see for example build it spawn points. Simply click on the map where you want the spawn point, for which side it is ment for and for what groups and the editor places the spawn point right on the map. No fuzz, just nicely auto generated.

Also placing objectives. I would like to see some build in objectives (not the limited ones from the wizard) you can place on the map. Such as ' destroy' object/building/men/vehicle, something that you can place on the map and link it to a group/player and it auto generates it ingame as an active objective. And that placable 'destroy' function should have a menu window as well where you can customize/set conditions to the objective.

I would basically like to see build in win/lose conditions/scenario's that that you can simply place as a module/object/trigger on the map with out having to script a thing and having to be a professional scripter or at least some one that has a nag for coding.

Make it easyer to add custom sounds. I have tried adding my own sounds like 100 times now, I am doing everything right, the script is right, trigger is right, sound is correct format, I did how it should work and others also checked and confirmed. Yet it still does not work, i'm still getting that the sound is not found so I fanally gave up in frustration knowing that I did it exactly how it should be done.

Why not have the possibility to place a (preferably .wav) sound file in a sound map and on start up of ArmA to automaticly detects the added sounds, lists them and make them selectable/usable/ in the editor? It would be really great if this were possible.

Maybe make it also possible for .bvh files so that you can add your custom animations and even can introduce mocap animations by placing it in an 'animation' map.

I could give some more examples, but I think you all see where I am going now. I am not asking for a dumbed down editor (just to be clear on that), just some added features to help the scripting nitwits like myself and make it usable (in the sence that you can easily create a full mission with objectives, spawn points, etc) for us as well.

Now the editor gives me the feeling that you have to be a scripting elite before you can create a cool custom mission that is cool enough so that actually other people would like to play it... as BI advertises that you can share your custom created missions with the community. Well you can share it, but with out all the fancy smancy scripting nobody that wants to play it lol.

I do think that BI really makes an effort to make it as easy as possible to use the editor in its current state with all the guides and this forum that has a very helpful community and active BI employees/devs to help out and I am pleased to see that. But still for the normal gamer like me and not a modding/coding hobbyist the editor in itself is easy to understand, but frustratingly hard to create a custom mission because of all that manual scripting.

I hope BI throws us nitwits a bone or 2, or at least takes it as noted that a part of the userbase has trouble and frustration with a main selling feature of the game, the editor. Either please add some auto generated options to the editor or upgrade the wizard with a lot more objectives, mission types, placement points, map zoom, etc. I prefer the first.

Ohh and also just to be clear, I love ArmA. It is uber cool and definitely loving the new expantion, ...just the editor arggg :P

Edited July 18, 2010 by B00tsy
spelling, typed it down quickly

[wamingo 1]

I've said templates before, and I'll say it again: Templates!

I really think if BI made a few templates the editor wouldn't feel as empty and intimidating.

Also, some of the most fun I ever had were with missions that didn't even have a briefing...

Granted a faulty end trigger won't harm me (mostly 3-5 player coop) as much as it would dedicated servers.

But simple missions are very often good fun.

[Two Dogs 12]

I'd like to see the 3D editor fully implemented and documented. It looks like a great tool, but you can't export to a usable mission.

[b00tsy 28]

;1696377']I'd like to see the 3D editor fully implemented and documented. It looks like a great tool' date=' but you can't export to a usable mission.[/quote']

Oh the 3D editor is even more hard to use. Can't get anything working in there. I am okay with that though, as long as the normal editor becomes easyer to use and that you can create a full and diverse mission without any scripting.

[kylania 568]

Oh the 3D editor is even more hard to use. Can't get anything working in there. I am okay with that though, as long as the normal editor becomes easyer to use and that you can create a full and diverse mission without any scripting.

You can create a full and diverse mission without any scripting. There are tons of prebuilt missions you can customize from the Wizards as well.

You really should read through the Mission Editor wiki and try a walkthrough of a mission editor tutorial before saying that it's impossible to use. The editor is extremely powerful, but like any tool, you need to know how to use it.

The only secret to the 3D editor is that in order to place a unit you need to have created a Center then a Group first. The missions it creates are playable, they just aren't editable with the 2D editor.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I agree, there's a lot you can do without scripting. Hell there's a lot you can do without even typing a single line of code. The editor is extremely flexible, easy to use for novices and powerful enough for more advanced users.

I think the problem is just that it's not documented enough. Documentation has always been an issue with BIS: that is it's usually left up to the community. They do contribute, but not nearly as much as the rest of us. :cool:

Still, you can't expect something that you can just pick up right away and make amazingly good campaign-like missions. It takes time, and lots of "discovery". :)

[kremator 1065]

A jazzed up mega editor is something I would pay as DLC !

[NeMeSiS 11]

To be honest if you are capable of writing such a long and well written post i think you are perfectly capable of learning the ArmA2 scripting language(s) to do simpler things like spawning and win/lose conditions. :p

[Two Dogs 12]

The missions it creates are playable, they just aren't editable with the 2D editor.

Well I just tried for the umpteenth time use the 3D Editor, and it CTDed me. I put down a few objects and a player, saved it as a single player mission, and when I went to play it, I crashed.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn124/knight_trane/3dEditorError1.png

And why can't I edit it in the 2D editor? It doesn't make sense that you can't.

This 3D Editor needs to fixed up and running in the next patch. No ones given any god reasons why not.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Two Dogs
because

[Big Dawg KS 6]

;1696641']

And why can't I edit it in the 2D editor? It doesn't make sense that you can't.

The 3D editor uses an entirely different format for producing/saving missions. You can't load data in the normal editor that simply doesn't exist. There are however, tools that convert the script files created by the 3D editor into mission.sqm files; the native mission file format in ArmA.

[b00tsy 28]

You can create a full and diverse mission without any scripting. There are tons of prebuilt missions you can customize from the Wizards as well.

You really should read through the Mission Editor wiki and try a walkthrough of a mission editor tutorial before saying that it's impossible to use. The editor is extremely powerful, but like any tool, you need to know how to use it.

The first link brings me to a tutorial vid from the ArmA site that shows how to place a men or a group with a waypoint, that much I figured out already lol. And like I mentioned in my original post, the wizard has limited possibilities/scenario's, limited placement points, limited map zoom etc. Move from A to B is not really what I had in mind, that I can do in the editor myself.

I also already mentioned that I did went through the tutorials and and wiki pages. I even watched youtube scripting vids. Most of the time when I do exactly how it is explained and basically paste/copy the scripting stuff it does not work, like the custom sounds and spawn points.

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

To be honest if you are capable of writing such a long and well written post i think you are perfectly capable of learning the ArmA2 scripting language(s) to do simpler things like spawning and win/lose conditions. :p

Well it has nothing to do with intelligence or anything. Some people are good at math and others bang their heads against the wall when they have to do math, same goes for this editor with all the scripting.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

same goes for this editor with all the scripting.

But scripting is not nescessary to make missions. It's an extra thing, for more advanced scenarios. And you can't really simplify it; you'd just be removing the advanced functionality it offers.

[Two Dogs 12]

The 3D editor uses an entirely different format for producing/saving missions. You can't load data in the normal editor that simply doesn't exist. There are however, tools that convert the script files created by the 3D editor into mission.sqm files; the native mission file format in ArmA.

My point exactly. This feature should be in the functionality, for lack of a better word. When I make a mission and save it as a SP, MP, or user mission, it should be converted automatically.

It's just like so many things that are half done.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

;1697095']My point exactly. This feature should be in the functionality' date=' for lack of a better word. When I make a mission and save it as a SP, MP, or user mission, it should be converted automatically.

It's just like so many things that are half done.[/quote']

The converters aren't perfect. There's still data loss (there has to be, there's no avoiding it). Some things just can't be converted properly, and there are other limitations. The 3D editor just isn't designed to be a replacement for the regular editor. It compliments the regular editor, but it will not have the same functionality unless BIS totally redesigns their mission file format (which would require an entirely new editor that everyone would have to become refamiliar with).

[b00tsy 28]

But scripting is not nescessary to make missions. It's an extra thing, for more advanced scenarios. And you can't really simplify it; you'd just be removing the advanced functionality it offers.

I do not see mission objectives (such as destroy building/vehicle/object) or spawn points as advanced, Yet I can't make it work when I try to script it.

Why if things as waypoints can be auto generated with a nice sub menu where you can modify the conditions why would that not possible for some more things. And again, I am not asking for a dumbed down editor. I am asking for some extra options/features that enables scripting nitwits to create a full mission with objectives, win/lose conditions and spawn points. Or a more diverse and less limited wizard.

The wizard is good, but it does not have enough scenario's with varied mission objectives and only a limited amount of placement points. Thats why I keep messing with the editor.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I do not see mission objectives (such as destroy building/vehicle/object) or spawn points as advanced, Yet I can't make it work when I try to script it.

You don't need scripts for either of these (though it could make things easier to use a script). I suggest you guys take a look at the OFP campaign missions (namely CWC), you will find that there are very few (if any) actual scripts in these missions. Most if them are entirely in the editor, minus some extra data (sounds, pictures, briefing, etc..).

And yes, while the ArmA 2 campaign missions are actually pretty heavily scripted, the old OFP methods still work absolutely fine. In fact, I miss the simplicity of the OFP missions, why do you guys think you need billions of advanced scripted stuff?

[RomeoSierra 10]

I think the editor is a true gem, I think it is really great that BI included this in the game. I am also amazed at what it can do, basicaly anything is possible...if you know how to do it. And there lies a problem I think.

For some one like me (one of many) that does not has a talent for scripting and never will be good at it and even has trouble getting it right with all the tutorials and guides it is very hard near to impossible to create a cool interesting mission with all the fancy smancy stuff the 'scripters mission creators' use.

+1.

While you may not need scripting it would be nice to have the features made available in a non-techy easy to use way.

Cheers

[Big Dawg KS 6]

+1.

While you may not need scripting it would be nice to have the features made available in a non-techy easy to use way.

Cheers

The amount of effort it'd take BIS to implement such a thing would be a lot more than the amount of effort it'd take the end user (you) to simply learn how to script. :j:

[b00tsy 28]

The amount of effort it'd take BIS to implement such a thing would be a lot more than the amount of effort it'd take the end user (you) to simply learn how to script. :j:

I don't make money learning how to script. BI makes money with ArmA and the featured editor... and by pleasing the customers, the more customers they please, the more more money they make >_< Well I buy the BI games anyways, but it helps if I can say to others that the editor is easy to use and you can create nice missions without having to go to a scripting course, thats not what I can say now. Pleasing customers is basic marketing :)

Edited July 25, 2010 by B00tsy

[landdon 0]

One feature I wish it has was the ability to access all the stuff witin the game without having to use an editor addon.

[Two Dogs 12]

I'd like to see what BIS thinks of this.

One feature I wish it has was the ability to access all the stuff witin the game without having to use an editor addon.

Landdon,

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=103921

Post there, and welcome to the fight.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Two Dogs

[ryguy 10]

To be honest if you are capable of writing such a long and well written post i think you are perfectly capable of learning the ArmA2 scripting language(s) to do simpler things like spawning and win/lose conditions. :p

I'm disagreeing with this post because it is not easy at all to learn to script. At least make it a little more user friendly, I vote for more templates.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'm disagreeing with this post because it is not easy at all to learn to script.

Not everything in life can be easy. Sometimes you have to struggle and do a bit of learning before you can have things the way you want. BIS has to draw the line somewhere. If they spend all their effort to make it so an infant could create a warfare mission in his sleep, well it just wouldn't be worth it.

The editor is like any other serious tool, you have to put a lot of time into learning how to use it if you're going to create something wonderful.

[ryguy 10]

Believe me I know about learning complicated tools... But why make it so complicated if it doesn't have to be? Pilot's use autpilot because it make their life easier... they don't feel they "have to keep it complicated", and besides, making a warfare mission with templates wouldn't be possible, I'm just asking for a few simple, user friendly templates that makes it easier to have a scripted mission to play with friends. If there's something wrong with that, I don't want to be right.

[b00tsy 28]

If they spend all their effort to make it so an infant could create a warfare mission in his sleep, well it just wouldn't be worth it.

The editor is like any other serious tool, you have to put a lot of time into learning how to use it if you're going to create something wonderful.

Again (for the 3th time ), I am not asking for a dumbed down editor that even an infant can use. You can keep all the scripting, just add some auto generated options to create diverse missions with all the things I mentioned before, things I can't create now in the wizard. I also said that it does not even has to be in the editor, if they upgrade the wizard thats fine too.