Right extremeist le pen wins over jospin

[Guest]

Le Pen upset causes major shock

I think that the trend is really disturbing. In Austria we have Haider, in Denmark Folkepartiet, in Italy the National Alliance and in France Le Pen. Why do people turn to these xenophobic/racist parties, I wonder...

[Longinius 1]

Because things are going to the shites and people are looking for scapegoats.

In my opinion, the immigrant policy is often to blaim, not the immigrants themselves. Its the politicians that made those policies that should be targeted, not the immigrants.

[Guest]

I dont think that it has anything to do with the immigration policy. These parties work in that way that they take up an actual issue that the government doesn't handle too good and promise a quick solution. In France Le Pen won on the issue of reducing crime, since he promised that if he was elected he wouldn't tolerate crime at all. Anybody with a little brain can see that such a party can't be taken seriously - it's like Ny Demokrati was in Sweden.

I guess that morons attract morons and therefor you have a collection of morinic things in those parties. The problem is that the great masses are just as stupid when thinking collectivly instead of individually. It's like a pop song - it has a catchy refrain and no real substance.

[ralphwiggum 6]

not surprised.

i heard there were soooo many left-oriented candidates. like 12 of them? which means that ppl who are left-oriented will unwillingly divide their votes among those, which would lessen the amount of votes for each leftist candidate. on the other side, right-wing has lesser votes to disperse, so they are better of compared to left.

here's a numerical ex)

let's say out of 100 votes, there are 4 candiates, 3 left and 1 rightwing. if right wing can hold about 30% of votes, rest of votes will go to leftwing. if 3 leftwing candidates have similar agenda, then the vote willbe evenly divided. thus, left wings loose, while right wing wins thanx to concentrated vote.

this is one side of democracy that seldom surfaces. a concentrated group can stick out among non-concentrated voters. this is exactly same mechnism of unions and other special interest groups.

is this bad? not really. this tactic is also can be used by groups that are on the fringe of political power, like environmental groups.

damn...all that public finance class really helps....

[Longinius 1]

"I dont think that it has anything to do with the immigration policy. These parties work in that way that they take up an actual issue that the government doesn't handle too good and promise a quick solution. In France Le Pen won on the issue of reducing crime, since he promised that if he was elected he wouldn't tolerate crime at all. Anybody with a little brain can see that such a party can't be taken seriously - it's like Ny Demokrati was in Sweden."

Maybe, maybe not. I read in some article that most people that voted for that guy were unemployed or lived in areas with many immigrants and a high crime rate. Its often popular for parties and people like that to blaim the immigrants and disregard the matter that the politicians themselves created the situation.

[hbk 0]

"J'ai mal a la France" - Andre Malraux

For non frenchies out there this could be translated as "My France hurts"

They might have won a battle, but they will never win the war.

The fight will go on ...

HBK

[Oligo 1]

I wonder what that Le Pen character thinks about European Union. Could it be: It is an evil plot by the krauts, the limeys and some other monkeys to rule France?

[Hilandor 1]

im not sure about french politics much france to me seems to be one of the quietest countries on the political map. last thing i heard about france was the world cup in 98 and before that, ww2

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 22 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder what that Le Pen character thinks about European Union. Could it be: It is an evil plot by the krauts, the limeys and some other monkeys to rule France?<span id='postcolor'>

I think that all the natoionalists parties are very much against EU. Another thing, I would like to quote Brigitte Bardot, who is a member of Le Pen's party: "If even more foreigners move in, I will have to move out of France"

[Joe Porta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 22 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 22 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder what that Le Pen character thinks about European Union. Could it be: It is an evil plot by the krauts, the limeys and some other monkeys to rule France?<span id='postcolor'>

I think that all the natoionalists parties are very much against EU. Another thing, I would like to quote Brigitte Bardot, who is a member of Le Pen's party: "If even more foreigners move in, I will have to move out of France"<span id='postcolor'>

She can move in with me I dont mind.

[Damage Inc 0]

Bah.

[hbk 0]

Joe Joe Bah ?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joe Porta @ April 22 2002,14:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 22 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 22 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder what that Le Pen character thinks about European Union. Could it be: It is an evil plot by the krauts, the limeys and some other monkeys to rule France?<span id='postcolor'>

I think that all the natoionalists parties are very much against EU. Another thing, I would like to quote Brigitte Bardot, who is a member of Le Pen's party: "If even more foreigners move in, I will have to move out of France"<span id='postcolor'>

She can move in with me I dont mind.  <span id='postcolor'>

You know that she is 68 years old? Are sure that you wouldn't reconsider you statement?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I guess there are three factors that have to be considered. Factor one is that the percentage of people actually voting was embarassing low, people are just fed up with scandals and the vote was during weekend+hollidays. Reason 2 is that Jospin is a fucking whimp and therefore there was no real choice people had, especially for the ones that wanted to show that they no longer support Chirac (probably went for canidation to get around a corruption-trail! president=immunity). Reason 3 was defiently septembre 11th, the french are probably afraid about strangers in the country (especially about the high percentage of arabs).

La Banlieu (outskirts of Paris) is mostly an area where immigrants live and this basically the source of criminality. Many voters probably create the equation criminality=immigrant.

[Sadico 1]

This sucks. Right wing is winning in almost all european countries. In Spain and Portugal too.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 22 2002,15:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many voters probably create the equation criminality=immigrant.<span id='postcolor'>

There is a statistical connection between those two, but not in the way that immigrants are criminals by default. The reason for the connection is the poor living conditions that they live under. It is poverty and ghettos that lead to criminality, not the membersip of a nation, religion or race. Le Pen and his alikes are trying to treat the symptom instead of treating the problem.

In Sweden, some two years ago, a couple of neo-nazis killed a union representative and two journalists. This led to an enormous public outrage and it killed of all pieces of right wing extremist organisations. They still havn't recovered from that one.

The underlying problem is a tougher one. Xenophobia is a part of human nature that can be subdued with education, but never entirely. People are more prone to hire people whose names they can pronounce.

Interesting note: I was going to say that they would rather hire a guy called XXXX then a guy called YYYY, but I quickly realised that diveristy of nationalities in this country makes it impossible for me to find a "typical" name and a foreign name to illustrate the example with. Perhaps global communications are the solutions to the problem.

[Mora2 0]

"This sucks. Right wing is winning in almost all european countries. In Spain and Portugal too"

Well...in Spain..left has been in government for 13 years and it has done nothing but shit.

I agree that ppl shouldn´t vote racists parties that don´t want to search for solutions to inmigration and only want to cut it off the easy way but i much prefer a right-central moderated partie like the one is governing Spain than any communist party.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 22 2002,15:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 22 2002,15<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many voters probably create the equation criminality=immigrant.<span id='postcolor'>

There is a statistical connection between those two, but not in the way that immigrants are criminals by default. The reason for the connection is the poor living conditions that they live under. It is poverty and ghettos that lead to criminality, not the membersip of a nation, religion or race. Le Pen and his alikes are trying to treat the symptom instead of treating the problem.<span id='postcolor'>

Poor living conditions? I dont know! But getthos definetly is true, this leads to a insufficient integration. But it is also true that many imigrants stem from countries or regions that are exposed to poverty and criminality for decades, after all that is why they are allowed to "imigrate".

I am sorry but I actually do think that immigrants do have a higher criminal energy (since they grew up in the neighbourhood of criminality)! But it is the task of the government to poperly introduce those people into the new community and bind them tight to it! I remember a year ago there was a representative of a turkish community in Berlin who asked to change the signs of street-names in the area into arab, since their women had problems of orientation. This is definetly an indicator of lacking integration and getthoisation.

But Le Pen is a man of propaganda, he is a fucking farmer with rensentiments against anything that appears to come from outside. SIMPLE MEN always blame it on others and simple men always would agree!

[Die Alive 0]

Le Pen is mightier than le sword  

-=Die Alive=-

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well...in Spain..left has been in government for 13 years and it has done nothing but shit.

I agree that ppl shouldn´t vote racists parties that don´t want to search for solutions to inmigration and only want to cut it off the easy way but i much prefer a right-central moderated partie like the one is governing Spain than any communist party. <span id='postcolor'>

And right wing has been in government for 6 years and it has done nothing but shit, too.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ April 22 2002,16:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well...in Spain..left has been in government for 13 years and it has done nothing but shit.

I agree that ppl shouldn´t vote racists parties that don´t want to search for solutions to inmigration and only want to cut it off the easy way but i much prefer a right-central moderated partie like the one is governing Spain than any communist party. <span id='postcolor'>

And right wing has been in government for 6 years and it has done nothing but shit, too.<span id='postcolor'>

In germany we have no real big extreme right-wing parties. I guess the german extremists are no friends of words, they do their job on the street (with strangely shaved heads, only god knows why)

No, I think that germany is tackling the issue extremist idea very aggressively, no party with those ideologies would survive long!

[Mora2 0]

During left government in Spain unemployment reached 30%

now it has been reduced fortunately to the16%...

This is only an example of why the right is still supported..because ppl has more money in their pockets,taxes are fewer and life quality has increased...

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 22 2002,16:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SIMPLE MEN always blame it on others and simple men always would agree!<span id='postcolor'>

sounds like Dubya...

anyway, speaking of crime and social status, i'd say poor ppl might have slightly more tendency to commit crimes, but it seems like thwy are problem cuz they get caught, while bigger criminals like Enron hardly get caught.

[Mora2 0]

hi albert...but i thought Le Pen wanted to kick out every inmigrant because he thinks that will decrease criminality.

Isn´t that why they are criticising this guy?

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mora2 @ April 22 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">During left government in Spain unemployment reached 30%

now it has been reduced fortunately to the16%...

This is only an example of why the right is still supported..because ppl has more money in their pockets,taxes are fewer and life quality has increased...<span id='postcolor'>

yup...you need to feel secure, no matter what your gov't is following certain ideology