Current state of the first aid module bugs? (1.05)

[galzohar 31]

I've seen lots of threads discussing various issues with these, but it's still not very clear to me as to what is actually fixed right now and what isn't.

Bugs I've read about:

- Screen staying red after respawn.

- Player being invulnerable.

- Player staying captive and thus getting ignored by enemies.

As far as I could understand from my readings is that the first 2 are no longer an issue in 1.05 (just making sure)?

What I couldn't find at all is whether the captive issue is fixed or not and what is the best way to work around it if it's still there.

[Fuzzy Bandit 10]

At the moment I really don't know!

Best idea would be to test it and see what happens! I've been using the ACE Wounding System and that works fine. :P

[jw custom 56]

In the test i did things seemed to work fine!

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=97156

[galzohar 31]

So we need to re-sync on respawns? Because I know it was "working" with respawn without any additional scripting, aside from those bugs of course.

[galzohar 31]

I still really need an answer for this :(

[jw custom 56]

Without re-sync you cant revive/get revived after respawn!

P.S. with the re-sync method i used the very first time i played around with it didn't work when doing it from a killed eventhandler, but i didn't test it with the method in the example so thats worth trying to make it look better!

Edited May 2, 2010 by JW Custom

[galzohar 31]

I just tried without resync and after getting injured and then respawning and getting injured again my AI buddy came up and healed me. Unless it's a "only happens sometimes" or is meant to prevent other issues than the one you mentioned, then re-sync is not needed.

On another note, do AI stop shooting you because you become captive? If yes, can I use a script to set them back to non-captive so that AI will try to make sure I'm dead? And while we're at it, is it possible to make everyone a higher (or highest? What would work better?) rank and then set it lower when you're injured and back up when you're healed so that you are a lower priority target? Anyone has any ideas what variables would allow me to monitor what I need in order to do that?

[jw custom 56]

I just tried without resync and after getting injured and then respawning and getting injured again my AI buddy came up and healed me. Unless it's a "only happens sometimes" or is meant to prevent other issues than the one you mentioned, then re-sync is not needed.

On another note, do AI stop shooting you because you become captive? If yes, can I use a script to set them back to non-captive so that AI will try to make sure I'm dead? And while we're at it, is it possible to make everyone a higher (or highest? What would work better?) rank and then set it lower when you're injured and back up when you're healed so that you are a lower priority target? Anyone has any ideas what variables would allow me to monitor what I need in order to do that?

Did you play vanilla 1.05 arma? Also try: Die, respawn, get injured so you go on ground and get that red flashing screen. I had ace and other stuff running when i played around with it so that could have been messing with it!

On another note, do AI stop shooting you because you become captive? If yes, can I use a script to set them back to non-captive so that AI will try to make sure I'm dead? And while we're at it, is it possible to make everyone a higher (or highest? What would work better?) rank and then set it lower when you're injured and back up when you're healed so that you are a lower priority target? Anyone has any ideas what variables would allow me to monitor what I need in order to do that?

AI keeps shooting at you so if your in the open under fire the chances are good you die :)

[galzohar 31]

My above test was with ACE. I actually did almost exactly what you did: I got injured, hit respawn while laying in agony, and then injured myself again with grenades. AI came to heal me and succeeded.

Sometimes they keep shooting but most of the time they stop. Not sure what exactly does that, but considering there used to be (or is there still?) a bug that made you stay captive (and someone who tested the bug showed that you become captive as soon as you're injured), I assume you do become captive still, and when they shoot you it's because they didn't "see" you becoming captive yet and thus are still shooting at the last known enemy position which just happens to be where you're laying in agony.

[jw custom 56]

I just tested with vanilla arma 1.05 and yes it works after respawn without resync but the AI refused to heal just stood next to me.

It also worked with ACE which is weird because i swear it didnt work last time i tried which is why i made the resync example. With ACE the AI did heal me though :)

I dunno about that captive state, when you lay on ground in agony you can press your movement keys and often(if not everytime) you can roll on your stomach and crawl slowly around and also empty the clip you got loaded!

I often play with BIS first aid modules and it always seems like the enemy AI keeps firing at the downed players. Could be because of the reasons you stated of course :)

[galzohar 31]

AI refusing to heal seems to have nothing to do with respawns, I've had many no-respawn missions where the AI refused to heal me. It's more of a "general retardness" bug.

Anyway, I'm still looking for definitive answers as to whether or not this works reliably (as it obviously "works" in the tests), as well as if there is a way to script up its difficulty, as being able to crawl and shoot or even the fact that you are still healable and can be brought back in the fight should be enough to justify not setting you as captive (and I just tested, you do get set to captive, and setting it to false *after* getting injured will keep it false, probably until the next time you get injured though I didn't have time to test that part yet).

[jw custom 56]

When i made the resync example i died, respawned, resync'ed modules, got injured and went on ground in agony, got healed by AI and then i walked alone towards some AI enemy which immidiately shot me!

Maybe it worked because i resync'ed the modules?

[galzohar 31]

Anything I tested so far seemed to work without re-syncing anyway (not that I tested much), so I don't see your point. The captive state is only during the agony state as it should be (again, at least in my few tests, but I remember having the issue of having the captive state remaining after respawn on occasion, which is one of the problems that may or may not have been fixed). I really hope *someone* (hopefully one that understands how those scripts work now) can confirm something here 100%...

[Bon 12]

I recommend you read the changelog that came with official patch 1.03. It claims the BIS Alternative Injury System works with respawn since then.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=82753

My own experiences tell the opposite. Sometimes you can still be healed by human players after respawn, most of the time not.

Sometimes the captive status remains, even if you respawned or got healed.

Same with the dragging stuff.

So for me it is totally unreliable in MP environment.

And although I just heared it from another person and this is the way rumors arise, there's no further work planned on the AIS module from BIS side.

[galzohar 31]

Does absolutely nobody use the BIS injury module with respawn to get more reliable data as to how well it works now? In Zeus many missions use the module but none of the missions have base/instant respawn, and most of my missions didn't have any injury module due to my dislike of the ACE wounding system and me not trusting the BIS first aid system enough (plus I'm not a giant fan of it either but it's at least much preferable over the ACE system IMO).

[Bon 12]

galzohar,

as I like the BIS module pretty much, but can't use it in my MP missions, I wrote my own little AIS which is more a small BIS AIS clone:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90466

It works flawlessly with respawn and you can even customize it by setting the threshold of received damage to be deadly or just forces you to fall in agony.

One drawback: it is not considered to work with AI - AI units won't fall in agony, they also can't apply first aid unless they are medics.

[jw custom 56]

Anything I tested so far seemed to work without re-syncing anyway (not that I tested much), so I don't see your point. The captive state is only during the agony state as it should be (again, at least in my few tests, but I remember having the issue of having the captive state remaining after respawn on occasion, which is one of the problems that may or may not have been fixed). I really hope *someone* (hopefully one that understands how those scripts work now) can confirm something here 100%...

My point is that i have not experienced that, but if you have it could be because you didn't resync... or because it was several patches ago you experienced it, only you can tell that :)

[galzohar 31]

I only had this several patches ago. Hadn't really played with this and respawn in 1.05 due to fear of having the mission ruined, which is why I created this thread.

[jw custom 56]

I only had this several patches ago. Hadn't really played with this and respawn in 1.05 due to fear of having the mission ruined, which is why I created this thread.

Roger that :)

Will i have experienced on patch 1.05 that after respawn you are not synced to the FA modules but now with new test it works! I have no idea what caused the problem in the first place, maybe a mod i had loaded.

The setcaptive issue after respawn i have not experienced on 1.05!

[galzohar 31]

After all it's all scripts, syncing is only "read" by the scripts which can be pretty much anything (it probably just checks which groups are synced to it at mission start and then run the scripts for those units, but it could really be anything).

[galzohar 31]

After a bit of playing, it seems all the bugs are still here - Captive status sometimes remains true after respawn and the "first aid" action sometimes simply doesn't do anything at all (no animation and no healing even though the action is there in the action menu).

No wonder nobody uses it, too bad nobody could say anything about that before me ruining a couple games testing it out *again* :(

[jw custom 56]

No wonder nobody uses it, too bad nobody could say anything about that before me ruining a couple games testing it out *again* :(

Well i often use BIS FA modules just without respawn(i generally dont like respawn in small coops) and i like them a lot :)

When i get time i'll do a thorough test with resync to see if that actually takes care of the problems your experiencing.