New wintermarch tank!

[Guest]

This will be the Russian light tank in WinterMarch and possibly the main tank for our Resistance force (Finnish) if we decide to add them. Constructive comments welcome

btw we're currently looking for texture artists if you are interested in joining the team please message me or email me or whatever.

[Dawdler 0]

Sweeet...

I cant wait to run over fins with it

Or russians for that matter

[ralphwiggum 6]

looks great Armourdave..

*drooling*

[Grave 0]

Umm its a Soviet tank, so it will drive over nazis

NIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEEEEEE DAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

[MRmontiOF 0]

Nice ......very nice !!!

[Guest]

Thanks for the positive feedback

We have much more waiting in the wings to be shown so stay tuned

[expendable 0]

Nice model, but Finns used mostly old German tanks like Sturm and such. Most of finnish soldiers never even saw friendly tanks in the whole war =)... Well, it´s just a game, so do what you like.

[Guest]

Not so true expendable. The fins used anything they could get their hands on.

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/other/finland/t50.htm

Here you can clearly see a T50 that was used by Finnish forces. Yes it's true that they had very few tanks but the T50 was one of the few

The Fins more regularly (though still rarely) used tanks such as the T-26, BT-2's and BT-7's as there were more available in the early parts of the war for stealing

Like I said this is the Russian Light tank. If in one of the campaigns the Fins decide to steal one then I dont see the problem?

Sturm II or III PROBALLY wont be in WinterMarch due to the way the AI drivers behave, but we'll see when we get tools.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Grave @ Mar. 19 2002,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Umm its a Soviet tank, so it will drive over nazis

NIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEEEEEE DAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!   <span id='postcolor'>

Ya, but russia and finnland was in war in the "early stages" of the war.

[Guest Scooby]

Finland was in three wars in WW2

First we were fighting Winter War with Russians at late 39 to early 40, then again with Russians in Continuation war from 41 to 44 and at last against Germans at 44 - 45 in laplands war.

[Rampe 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Armourdave @ Mar. 19 2002,21:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... the main tank for our Resistance force (Finnish) if we decide to add them.<span id='postcolor'>

if... IF?!

[Blake 0]

Finns as the resistance - an excellent idea!

Good choice taken into account that Finnsh fought against Soviets 39-40, again in 41-44 then finally against Germans

to drive 200,000 Germans out of Northern Finland during late 44 - early 45 campaign.

Since you'll model the entire conflict and probably model only couple of vehicles for Finnish Army, I'd suggest you model:

- SturmGeschutz III G

-captured T-26 tank

here's the link for this page: http://www.pp.htv.fi/jveijala/mil00.html

it shows armor on display in Parola Armor Museum

They were most numerous tanks in the Finnish Army during 39-45 period. And you if you model them for Soviets and Germans too, you'll just have to reskin them.

I'm ready to help you any way I can with this Finnish part, just email me if you need help!

And once again big PLEASE: include the Finns as resistance

[Guest]

Looks like this thread just got Finn-o-lized.

Finnish resistance will be added and hopefully interwoven into one or both of the planned campaigns. In-terms of realism I'm not too sure if both the Germans and Fins ever came together to fight the Russians in a single battle. If someone could give me reference to a battle that involved all 3 sides we would be more confident in our decision.

Blake, thanks for the info and the site. T26 should be modelled fairly soon, this was already on our low priority list but now has been assigned to Grave so it should be a really great quality model

I think I'll start on the SturmGeschutz today, though I still have major doubts about it's use unless BIS make the movement of the AI a little less jerky some time in the future. Currently this is the only 4 sided drawing of it I have

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/profiles/pstug3f.htm

So if you know of any better ones that would be great. In terms of editing help we're still looking for experienced mission/campaign makers. Most applicants for this position so far have either been time wasters or not experienced enough, I respect your work and would love it if you would accept the role but I get the feeling you're planning on doing more of your own campaigns

[Blake 0]

Great that you take the feedback

There were probably countless of single battles where Finns and Germans fought side by side against Soviets in 41-44. In summer of 1941 German 'Gebirgs Korps Norwegen' attacked east from Northern Finland with the objective of capturing vital city of Murmansk. At the same time, sligtly souther, Finnish 6. Division with German 169. Division and SS-Division 'Nord' pushed east around city of Salla. Hard fighting took place and Soviets were determined to hold Murmansk so allied supplies could flow into the country. The attack around Salla also bogged down in the forests having advanced around 50km. The front lines stayed mainly static in the North after this operation, despite furious Soviet counter-attacks during spring of 1942.

In southern Finland German and finns fought together also during Soviet summer offensive in 1944. German 122. Infantry Division, Stukas of Flight Detachment 'Kuhmley' and Assault Gun Brigade gave important support to Finnish troops around Vyborg and helped Finnish forces to halt the Soviet assault.

Also, German-supplied Panzerschrecks and Fausts were important in stopping soviet heavy armour.

Later when peace was signed, Finns were forced to drive 200,000 remaining Germans of 'Gebirgs Korps Norwegen' out of the country and last Germans left Northern Finland in April 1945.

There are lots of more detailed accounts of finnish-german joint opertions in 1941-44. There was also Finnish SS-volunteer batallion consisting about 1,000 men fighting in SS-Division 'Viking' in the Eastern Front 1941-43.

more detailed account about it here: http://www.feldgrau.com/finland.html

I'll try to find better pics of Sturmgescutz and post some links here when I get them. Thanks for the offer to make missions, I gladly would like to do some missions, especially the ones that consist Finnish and German troops

Keep up the good work!

[Blake 0]

Here is an excellent armour site, the 'AFV Interiors'

Very detailed reports about tanks ww1-present day, including fascinating interior shots:

http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/archive.html

[Guest]

Taking feedback and using it wisely is our top priority right now primarily to ensure we have a solid footing for the coming months work. We aren't in the business of rolling over on decisions just because people want something else. If people can convince us that there is reason for a unit/vehicle/object/country that we have missed out we will consider it further. Though our sights must be kept in realistic scope of what's possible within OFP, realistic and needed.

I'm not too sure I like the idea of Finnish volunteer forces mixed in the main wehrmacht force and I'm not too sure about SS forces. It's more likely that if we add some type of elite unit it will be the liebstandarte or just fallschirmjäger. Though that site is pretty interesting and it's interesting to see just how willing the Finns were to fight.

I tried to start work on the stuGIII but those images are just too-low res to be used. and the only decent ones I found were of the later III's with the Späte main gun or the early Ausf. C/D with low velocity 75mm main gun. So if you do find anything please post them

The AFV interior site is great. I remember finding it a few months ago when I had no real use for it. Thanks for the link once again!

[Guest Scooby]

Finland as resistance should be so that German forces are set to friendly for Fins in missions and Russians to hostile.

There were 1200 Finnish SS men fighting in German forces at east front but I think it is not neccessary to see them fighting alongside of Germans in German missions.

Rather keep it in such way that Fins are fighting in some resistance missions where perphaps Germans would be fighting alongside Fins or mentioned in mission briefing, etc.

[Blake 0]

Yes, that Finnish Waffen-SS volunteer story was put there just as an example. Maybe one reason was that my granpa's brother served in that unit as junior officer

But fighting in during summer '41 in Lappland included thousands of Finns and Germans in mixed battlegroups, with German armor supporting Finnish infantry etc. Same co-operation was also crucial during Soviet '44 summer offensive

when their attack was succesfully checked with heavy losses.

There was also large-scale island fighting for the dominance of Vyborg bay area, which could make some interesting scenarios.

Some statistics:

Total WW2 losses in the Finnish/Carelian front:

Soviet union: 500,000 killed, over 1 million wounded

Finland: 90,000 killed, over 200,000 wounded

But as Scooby mentioned, early 41-44 scenarios could make Finns friendly to Germans, but '45 could be hostile then. I'm willing to do missions as well as many  other people from our squad, they were very entusiastic after hearing that Finland might be included!

Forget the SS volunteers that was just put there as a curiosity...

Excellent site about 39-40 Winter War:

http://www.winterwar.com/mainpage.htm

http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/finland_wwii.html/

..is an average site about Finland in WW2 in general...

[Grave 0]

<<finally against Germans

to drive 200,000 Germans out of Northern Finland during late 44 - early 45 campaign.>>

What? You made an agreenment concerning how the germans would leave Finland, so they did...