Directions shouted by AI

[calo_mir 10]

Ok, when the AI uses grid references to explain where it saw enemy units, that works fine. When the AI shouts cardinal directions with a vague measurement of distance, that's fine too.

But, when the AI reports come in of "ENEMY. SNIPER. TO OUR. LEFT.", they might as well not have spoken. Which left? My left? The left of the speaker? Some other left? Whilst looking around madly trying to work out which left the AI was talking about, I'm usually catching bullets in vital organs.

I can see how those directions would apply to a tank crew or other vehicle, but when we're all sitting in the grass facing different directions?

Is this perhaps a bug? Maybe the AI uses directions in speech that were only supposed to be used when in a vehicle?

[l mandrake 9]

I agree, I wish they would just shout out compass bearings, i.e ENEMY SNIPER TO THE NORTH-EAST, CLOSE. Then we'd all know what the hell was going on :rolleyes:

[Diosdemuerte 10]

And is it really realistic to know what enemy unit is shooting at you? I understand in CQB where you can plainly see the enemy and the weapon they are using, but when we are 400 meters away and they know that it's an officer... It just doesn't seem to real.

[Simon C 0]

And is it really realistic to know what enemy unit is shooting at you? I understand in CQB where you can plainly see the enemy and the weapon they are using, but when we are 400 meters away and they know that it's an officer... It just doesn't seem to real.

That's not the point that the OP is trying to get at here. The problem is that the AI shouts that the enemy are to the left, or the front or whatever. But which direction is the front? The front of the player? The front of the AI who called the contact? It's impossible to tell when everyone is facing different directions. That's why it'd be better for the AI to use compass bearings as opposed to front/left/right/whatever.

[EDcase 87]

I agree.

I much prefer cardinal directions or clock face reference for direction.

Having "close", "near" or "far" is OK for distance if the target is not confirmed.

[Diosdemuerte 10]

That's not the point that the OP is trying to get at here. The problem is that the AI shouts that the enemy are to the left, or the front or whatever. But which direction is the front? The front of the player? The front of the AI who called the contact? It's impossible to tell when everyone is facing different directions. That's why it'd be better for the AI to use compass bearings as opposed to front/left/right/whatever.

I understand, I was just getting a little off topic, sorry. I believe that the directions should only be used if they are to the immediate left or right, etc. Like in a humvee, that would be easier to comprehend. As for long/mid distance engagements, clock system and compass directions would feel a little more player-friendly.

[nominesine 0]

I agree that the system is a bit problematic. Left/Right is based on the last recorded movement that the group leader undertook. If your squad is moving north, left will be west and right will be east. Movement direction, not facing, is the deciding factor at work here.

Hence: If you sidestep a few meters to the left (west) as you continue to face north, the AI will change it's trevelling direction. From now on left will be south and right changes to north.

Confusing and not the least bit user friendly, in my opinion. But that's how it works.

[Windexglow 10]

I love it when they point out "Near that tree" Especially in a freakin forest.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I wish they would still use the OFP system. The clock and meter way gave the best precision and the 'That' that was added in ArmA just made the voices sound even weirder.

[H-street 10]

its with respect to your view. was teh same way in OFP

they've just replaced 9 o'clock with Left , 12o'clock with front etc..

personally i like the Left Near, Front Far type system.. Seems more "squad"-ie to me :)

i guess the question is, how do they do it in real squads? when a team mate spots an enemy what is the correct way for alerting the rest of the squad?

[WannaBeMarine 10]

Well, in a real squad each member would be responsible for covering a sector of the 360 degree clock. Since everyone should know what sector everyone is assigned, the alert is more concerned with what is being seen instead of where at first. Sad to say, but watch Generation Kill to see this in action. The age of every man on the field having a personal radio is still pretty young. The actual words used varies.

[evilnate 0]

With the OFP o'clock method, an annoying o'clock "compass" would pop up for a few seconds so you could see what o'clock really is.

Left, right, rear contact reporting is horrible. Bearing, or N-E-S-W descriptions work soo much better! As far as distances, I really like close, near, far since it's single syllables and gets communicated quickly instead of "CON-TACT AT ONE-EIGHT-ZERO".

[t3K-Mac 0]

why don't bis just integrate the old arma 1 style? it was wayyyyyyy better than the actual one.

[Momaw 10]

This isn't helped by the fact that the AI's detection ability in general is supernatural. So it's calling a target to the left, through a boulder, three trees, and a modest sized house. Even if you're looking in the correct direction, it may be impossible to get line of sight. (sometimes this is justified since your squad spreads out under fire, and the person who called the target may have LOS but you don't).

In general I think "left" and "right" should be based on the squad leader's facing. NOT last movement. If you're hanging out behind a wall and the leader shuffles sideways a little to scan the surrounding through a hole, then he's still facing the same way and his left is still the squad's left. Directions like left and right though should only be used when the squad is close together and it is clear to everybody which way is "front". When people are spread out over a fifty meter circle and you may not even be able to see the leader at the moment, "front" is... vague. Compass directions should be used in such cases. North is north no matter which way you're facing. :P Left and right can also be used in vehicles, where even if people are not all facing the same way, "front" is obviously the front of the vehicle.

This could additionally be helped by squad members pointing at targets when they call them, or when approached, or even add a radio request. So even if you're not the squad leader but only a member, when one of your mates calls the target you can turn to look at them and they'll be pointing at whatever they see. If you miss the initial indication, just move close to them and they'll point again. This is basically how a human would communicate information here and the way most intuitive to... humans.

And as the leader you could ask that they point again, possibly under the 2:Target menu. "Indicate last target"?

Hmm.

[maturin 12]

Left =/= 9 o'clock because the AI seems to be frequently dyslexic.

[NeMeSiS 11]

its with respect to your view. was teh same way in OFP

they've just replaced 9 o'clock with Left , 12o'clock with front etc..

personally i like the Left Near, Front Far type system.. Seems more "squad"-ie to me :)

i guess the question is, how do they do it in real squads? when a team mate spots an enemy what is the correct way for alerting the rest of the squad?

But 3 o clock is a precise direction, right is 'somewhere over there' and ranges from 12 to 6 o clock. :p

[calo_mir 10]

The clock directions are still relative - that's the issue.

The cardinal directions and grid references are absolute and unambiguous.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The clock directions are still relative - that's the issue.

The cardinal directions and grid references are absolute and unambiguous.

OFP solved this with the little clock which popped up when someone yelled a direction.

North/south/etc is also fine to me, but i just dont know why they chose to make it worse then in OFP... :p

[calo_mir 10]

Yeah, I never played OFP so I don't know how the old system worked.

[sic-disaster 311]

What else could be useful is that since we have hand gestures now, maybe AI soldiers could point out targets as well?

Except maybe in Danger-mode, where they need to stay on alert and ready to fire.

Still, if they point with their left hand, that shouldnt stop them from being able to fire with the right hand (which is on the trigger) with a precision penalty.

[p53 10]

Yes, I agree that object descriptions would be more accurate if they're given as georgraphical directions.

Also - in the Stealth mode, it would be nice if all of "shoutnig" was off, and only micro-SI gestures + subtitles (as optional gesture "translation" for clarity) left. It's a bit akward when squad members shout out loud "ENEMY, TO OUR FRONT, CLOSE", when they try to stay hidden.

[calo_mir 10]

Also - in the Stealth mode, it would be nice if all of "shoutnig" was off, and only micro-SI gestures + subtitles (as optional gesture "translation" for clarity) left. It's a bit akward when squad members shout out loud "ENEMY, TO OUR FRONT, CLOSE", when they try to stay hidden.

I agree. This was one of the first things I was concerned about when I got the game. Are my AI characters going to alert that patrol I'm setting up on?

---------- Post added at 05:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 AM ----------

Issue filed:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3312

---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 AM ----------

Issue filed for stealth gestures too:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3313

[11aTony 0]

I dunno. When I started A2 it was kinda weird but now I find it quite cool. If Im with my squad then left is my left. If I am 200m away then its their left. And dont tell me that OFP and A1 system was great and all that. It sucked too sometimes. When he said 9 o'clock and it was really 6 o'clock or something.

[paelleon 0]

Hi, I agree completely. The LEFT-RIGHT... direction system of ARMA2 sucks. :mad:

Replacing them with NORTH-EAST... or the OFP clock system will be enough to solve the problem. Unfortunatly not all people playing ARMA2 thinks to it as a problem, probably because they never played ARMA1 or OFP, so they never saw a better working system.:j:

The reason why Bohemia changed a perfectly working system still evades me.:confused:

[Flightster 10]

Fact is that 1-12 'o clock would still offer the same problems, as in: who's 1-12 'o clock? I never played OFP, so unless they made it so that you would be prompted of which direction the enemy is from YOU it wouldn't make a difference.

The compass or a grid location would work so much better.. More likely a compass location, seeing as looking at the map and searching for that particular grid would most likely get you killed before you find it (and you wouldn't do something stupid like that if you would be there in real life either).