Helicopter "climb reserve"...

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

There's an issue with the controls of helicopters which is actually existing since OFP. The problem is if you've taken off and move forward at higher speeds you'll always have to apply full throttle to keep the helicopter at height which is simply wrong because you always have to raise the nose of the helicopter to make it climb/gain height (with the effect of slowing down the helicopter). To make it more realistic the helicopters should have a "climb reserve". This should be easy to implement just make fly "normal" with 80% of the throttle and give us a 20% reserve for example.

[frederf 0]

There is much wrong with the "facts" you have stated.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

Can you please explain what is wrong with the "facts"?

[JoeyNickel 10]

Not in every case you will have to keep the helicopter parallel to the ground in order to have the heli climb. It also depends on various other settings, like blade shifting to mention one and probably the most important. It's not that the rotor blades are fixed.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

That's why I didn't understand Frederf's comment. It's not possible to change the pitch in game so it has to be done by applying more power and that isn't possible because you're nearly always at 100% in flight already (at least with a joystick it's the case).

[furia 10]

I think this has to do more with specific joystick setting and the particular way you take off rather than with the game physics.

On this game you do not need 100% "power" to take off, unless you want to make a rocket take off. Like in a real helicopter you apply power gently until you are airborne and then you gently pick up speed untill you reach translational airspeed. Usually on my joystick that means no more than 80% "power".

However I agree with you there is something wrong with the rate of climb/pitch rate/ power settings.

If for instance you make a max speed shallow dive using high power settings, you need to start the dive recovery very high since the helicopter does not respond well to pitch up commands on this settings, and the nose pitch up rate is slow and the application of max power just complicate the things even more so your recovery is so slow that unless you started it high enough you end up in a colorful explosion on the ground.

Trying to think positive, this could be related to the helicopter reaching Vne (Velocity Never to exceed) but despite there is no indication on this and we do not suffer the dreaded uncommanded left roll, I guess it is not related.

Pitch up authority and lift generation is not very goog at high speed, no matter how much power you are using, and that should be reviewed, although on the meantime, it is just a matter to get use to it and fly accordingly to every aircarft speccific flying characteristics.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

Yes, maybe I was a little unclear in my explaination but you summed it up quite well, thanks.

[frederf 0]

The effective translational lift demonstrated by the flight model in ArmA2 pales compared to the genuine aircraft. Basically a helicopter moving at 120 knots is part airplane and part rotorwing aerodynamically but ArmA2 greatly undermodels the effect of translational lift.

[max power 21]

Helicopters have a certain power rating that they can use for climbing, maneuvering, and forward flight. Anytime you are climbing, you have less power available for maneuvering, and the faster you want to accellerate or the higher speed you want to sustain, the less power you have available to climb. I think this is represented in ArmA fairly well.

[frederf 0]

If the OP's complaints that you cannot climb from a level path or descent without pitching > 0° then there's something wrong. Of course what you say Plaintiff is very true but you might be overlooking a flaw with that level of simplification.

[max power 21]

I'm not exactly sure what he means, to be honest. The helicopter can fly fastest if you pin the collective and pitch forward. If you return to level flight, it climbs slightly. If you reduce thrust, it slows down and starts to decend.

Helicopters in real life can tap out all of their available power for climbing into forward level flight. The player in ArmA can keep a 20% power reserve simply by not pinning the thing to the firewall all of the time. Likewise, he or she can climb by pitching the nose up slightly. Nothing could be simpler.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Max Power

[frederf 0]

If I'm reading him correct (and I agree it's hard) he's saying that once you get into level flight at full power, it gets "stuck" where it won't climb under full power even when it should be climbing at that power setting, attitude, and airspeed.

He's of course wrong in saying that full power shouldn't be required for forward flight in all cases. The absolute maximum forward performance of a helicopter is maximum collective and enough forward pitch so the aircraft neither climbs nor descends. You can even descend under full power if the forward pitch is in excess of what's required for level flight.

The concept of a "reserve" is nonsensical unless we're getting into the areas of overtorque and rotor underspeed which I think only WGL attempted for OFP.

[kremator 1065]

Not a problem ..... hold Q and be done with it :)

[S!fkaIaC 10]

The general vehicle modeling is retarded by design. regardless how much weight you have in carge + fuel + ammo, all birds behaving the same way. Planes should gain manoeuvrability by dropping auxiliary tanks, nada in arma.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

At first thanks for all your input. I want to mention that I'm absolutely not a pro in avionics etc. but I know rudimentarily how a helicopter works.

In general even a faster moving helicopter is not using all the power that is available. There's nearly always some power-reserve available (not to talk about the possibility to apply more pitch which we simply can't in ArmA because this function is totally missing).

With my joystick (a quite seasoned Logitech Wingman Pro) I've to apply nearly always full throttle to keep higher speeds and height. When I'm for example just using about 80% the helicopter is "limping" around and always tries to leave it's height which has to be countered via raising the nose with the result of losing speed (massively). I know a fast moving helicopter has not such a high rate of climb but it should be a little more then actually is possible in game.

Anyways, from all the comments I take that we all think that the flight model could need a little improvement. Am I right?

[max power 21]

I'm sure it could, but I doubt it will be touched much. This isn't a flight simulator and the devs don't treat it as such.

[frederf 0]

Plage, I know that the best lift-power ratio for the Ka-50 is 130km/h in DCS:BS-real-life. At speeds faster than Vy the helicopter is having to spend increasing amounts of power.

You say it best when you say that you can't seem to do normal flight with 80% collective which should definately be possible. I think that ArmA really undermodels the effect of translational lift (previously stated) which means that the power requirement at Vy is in excess of what it should be.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Anyways, from all the comments I take that we all think that the flight model could need a little improvement. Am I right?

You try to ride a horse that is 8 years dead.