i really cant get used to the multiplayer

[bangtail 0]

galzohar got a very good point. Unless the movement is motivated and with a certain degree of consequence it is pointless. If I'm going to get ferried for 10 minutes by truck but with no story element to it, no threat of ambush or other attack, and where the movement gives total freedom to choose the directon of attack on a target, then it is 10 wasted minutes.

If you play in PvP and move around with terrain masking to outflank your enemy it serves a purpose. They might be flanking the same side to either protect against your flanking maneuver or to flank your position. However this demands that the area of operations has a reasonable size compared to the number of players, or actually finding flanking enemies, be it with offensive or defensive purposes, will be nigh impossible!

But if the movement is threatless and one can just drive/fly around to a spot and pick the direction of attack, then one can just as well have teleported there and saved the time and trouble.

The long distance movement only adds anything to the gameplay if it has to be an active decision that matters and that can have both good and bad consequences, other than just another boring respawn after 2 minutes to do the same again.

I think limited team respawns or time pressure is quite a factor for this. Then means of travel and distance travelled actually matters more for the actual outcome of the mission.

Obviously Im not talking about running through a field with no adversaries for 20 mins. So actually, he doesn't have a point. Infiltrating a target area is well in line with the simulation aspect of A2 and involves a wealth of tactical decision making.

A map where you run for 30 minutes in a north easterly-direction with no actual objective isn't my cup of tea but it's just more proof that you can do just about anything with the A2 editor (Including designing maps that cater to the instant action crowd if you so desire).

Eth

[galzohar 31]

Who was talking about missions where you sneak around? Have you seen any of them run on any servers? If you did then you're lucky - I've seen none. They all had relatively focused action (be it HOLD-type missions, evo/dom missions, or "longest day" missions), with at least 1KM of travel in between "action areas". They almost always result in any attempt of sneakiness to be completely pointless (evo/dom you can just respawn, HOLD you're wasting too mcuh time you could've spent on actually being inside a zone that needs to be captured/defended, longest day is just a helo-bus mission).

There are missions out there with travel time that actually works well, like "sniper team" that was ported from OFP. Sure it took a while to get to the target, but you actually had those "should I shoot or hide from those guys" and "should I go from this forest or that bank to avoid enemies" factors. Those factors simply don't exist in the missions that currently run on servers.

The reason I play Arma 2 and not COD4 or BF2 or even PR is not for long travel times. It's because I want a game where if I shoot an M16, it feels like shooting an M16, not a BB gun. If I shoot an M107 at 1000m, it should feel like shooting an M107, not a laser gun. If I get shot in the leg, it should feel like I got shot in the leg and not yell "ahh, flesh wound!" as a medic snaps me back up. If I see an enemy at 300m, I want to be able to both see him and be able to shoot him with my assault rifle if I try hard enough, just like I can do IRL. When I go prone I want it to feel like I'm going prone, not like a dolphin dive. I like realism, and I like realistic missions. But I also don't like the boring parts getting the most attention while the interesting parts getting left out simply because of bad mission design. Inkompetent seems to understand where I'm coming from.

ROFLMAO. I don't know who designs your missions.

With this I can agree. Missions could use some major improvements. I don't have any major issues with the game (I mean, it could simulate things way better, but that's not the issue we're discussing), I have major issues with the missions. I even tried making a realistic, team-oriented, repayable mission but had yet to find a server willing to test it out: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80452

On a side note, even the first campaign mission has some meaningless walking around at some parts, to the point where after you realize there are no enemies there, every time you die and load that save point you simply face in the correct compass direction and run straight until you reach the area that actually has something for you to do. But at least there they can use the excuse that doing it differently would ruin the story and immersion of the mission, which is sort of true. Since these excuses don't exist in MP missions, there's no reason for them to have such elements.

Edited July 20, 2009 by galzohar

[bangtail 0]

Who was talking about missions where you sneak around? Have you seen any of them run on any servers? If you did then you're lucky - I've seen none. They all had relatively focused action (be it HOLD-type missions, evo/dom missions, or "longest day" missions), with at least 1KM of travel in between "action areas". They almost always result in any attempt of sneakiness to be completely pointless (evo/dom you can just respawn, HOLD you're wasting too mcuh time you could've spent on actually being inside a zone that needs to be captured/defended, longest day is just a helo-bus mission).

There are missions out there with travel time that actually works well, like "sniper team" that was ported from OFP. Sure it took a while to get to the target, but you actually had those "should I shoot or hide from those guys" and "should I go from this forest or that bank to avoid enemies" factors. Those factors simply don't exist in the missions that currently run on servers.

The reason I play Arma 2 and not COD4 or BF2 or even PR is not for long travel times. It's because I want a game where if I shoot an M16, it feels like shooting an M16, not a BB gun. If I shoot an M107 at 1000m, it should feel like shooting an M107, not a laser gun. If I get shot in the leg, it should feel like I got shot in the leg and not yell "ahh, flesh wound!" as a medic snaps me back up. If I see an enemy at 300m, I want to be able to both see him and be able to shoot him with my assault rifle if I try hard enough, just like I can do IRL. When I go prone I want it to feel like I'm going prone, not like a dolphin dive. I like realism, and I like realistic missions. But I also don't like the boring parts getting the most attention while the interesting parts getting left out simply because of bad mission design. Inkompetent seems to understand where I'm coming from.

With this I can agree. Missions could use some major improvements. I don't have any major issues with the game (I mean, it could simulate things way better, but that's not the issue we're discussing), I have major issues with the missions. I even tried making a realistic, team-oriented, repayable mission but had yet to find a server willing to test it out: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80452

On a side note, even the first campaign mission has some meaningless walking around at some parts, to the point where after you realize there are no enemies there, every time you die and load that save point you simply face in the correct compass direction and run straight until you reach the area that actually has something for you to do. But at least there they can use the excuse that doing it differently would ruin the story and immersion of the mission, which is sort of true. Since these excuses don't exist in MP missions, there's no reason for them to have such elements.

Fair enough, we might have had our wires a little crossed there but in conclusion, it's not really up to you or anyone else to dictate what elements they choose to include in their missions.

The fact of the matter is that OFP/A1/A2 seem to get the most attention from Coop players/modders etc and PvP never really gets off the ground (it was probably best with OFP and has lost steam since then).

The problem with such an openly modifiable game is there is rampant cheating (which kills PvP) and a learning curve that a lot of people won't take the time to appreciate, they'd rather just fire up PRM or whatever.

Eth

[galzohar 31]

Unfortunately it's not just a PvP problem. evo/dom (if your MHQ is destroyed) has huge travel times (even parachuting takes a LONG time) and are the most common missions. 3rd most common is "the longest day" which is almost a pure helicopter transport mission. I think I spent over 95% of my time in that mission either on the carrier or sitting in the chopper.

Better coop missions might exist, but servers don't seem to run them.

[bangtail 0]

Unfortunately it's not just a PvP problem. evo/dom (if your MHQ is destroyed) has huge travel times (even parachuting takes a LONG time) and are the most common missions. 3rd most common is "the longest day" which is almost a pure helicopter transport mission. I think I spent over 95% of my time in that mission either on the carrier or sitting in the chopper.

Better coop missions might exist, but servers don't seem to run them.

Again we can agree. I write my own missions tbh and play them with a select group of people. I don't bother with Evo/Warfare etc. The game just doesn't lend itself well to that type of play IMHO.

Eth

Edited July 20, 2009 by BangTail

[hund 0]

Who was talking about missions where you sneak around? Have you seen any of them run on any servers? If you did then you're lucky - I've seen none.

I'd rather drink a gallon of gazoline and piss on a fire than play a sneak ninja mission with pubes. It's never going to work for simple reason that they tend of have the attention span of five-years olds, which in turn has ill effects on the whole ninja part of the operation.

And that why 99% of the missions you see on the open servers are of the "attack" variety. Everyone knows that they're supposed to go over there and kill everyone except the guys wearing blue shirts, and they're good at it.

Oh and Gal, how the hell did you manage to spend 95% of the time out of battle in The Longest Day? That's gotta be some sort of record man! :D

Edited July 20, 2009 by Hund

[eem 1]

...Hmmm, travel time...

What about using the ACM (Ambient Combat Module) to spice up travel times a bit? The ACM could be used to generate random encounters en-route. This would make the engress a lot more interesting with the possibilty of a random encounter. Just thinking out loud....

L8r,

eem

[galzohar 31]

Oh and Gal, how the hell did you manage to spend 95% of the time out of battle in The Longest Day? That's gotta be some sort of record man! :D

Spawn on deck, wait for helo.... wait for helo... Helo respawn! Get in helo... Wait for it to land... Get shot down... Respawn... Try again, this time bail out before helo crashes, but now I have a long walk because we got too far from the objective. By the time I get to the planned landing zone the respawned chopper is already there... Bleh should've just hit the "respawn" button, get in the chopper and go AFK again! Then you get a little combat, mostly friendlies killing AI as there aren't all that many AI and the guys that came in the chopper already had a head start on you so there's not much left. Then you die and the whole process starts over again, this time with more waiting on the deck for a helo and then helo crashes.

See, it's really not that hard to spend 95% of the time out of combat on "the longest day" :) Even when everything goes perfectly you will spend most of your time traveling/waiting in some shape or form.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Man galzohar do not ever play with me.

You have got some weird kind of unluckiness gene.

Are you safe to cross the road?

How Darwin has not dealt you the big one yet surprises me.

I spend 5 minutes on the Helicopter Carrier, mostly restocking ammo and choosing weapons, with perhaps 2 to 3 minutes marking the LZ and Ingress and Egress routes if they are not already marked.

Another 3 to 4 minutes in flight. Where I may talk the pilot in if they are new or unsighted for the landing, and discuss assault route and overwatch positions with my squad buddies.

15 to 30 minutes at the objective mostly hunting Armor and slotting AI.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 20, 2009 by walker

[hund 0]

Now now, Mr. Walker, be nice.

Anyone can have a bad day.

[Inkompetent 0]

I'm with galzohar. 9/10 pilots I've been ferried by in ArmA2 are so bad they shouldn't even be allowed in as passengers. They have no idea what so ever what 'terrain masking' is, and they don't grasp the concept that even things that aren't Tunguskas or Shilkas can shoot them down. Luckily there are some good pilots out there that can fly safely and know how to put you down at a decent LZ.

[hund 0]

And you'll notice how the good ones quickly get elevated to hero status once they join a server and do their thing.

The bad ones fade into obscurity.

[galzohar 31]

Unless the bad ones is the best you currently have on the server, which is very often the case :(

[Apocal 10]

You are really telling on yourself when you say you spent 95% of your time sitting back at base or in a helo. I'm not sure it's even physically possible to die that fast in The Longest Day, unless you were blown out of the helo several times in a row.

[hund 0]

What we have to remember here is that Galzohar is, if nothing else, the worst player this gaming series has ever seen. :D

Hats off to that, gentlemen.