Bullet penetration through cars

[Belier13 0]

Well well well, I doubt many of you noticed that (otherwise I'll just look like an attention whore anyway) but bullets (powerfull one at least) penetrate through cars and kill the driver, and those beyond the cars! Yes, you hear me correctly.

No big deal, the penetration system is not as complex as.. CoD 4, but it still totally amazes me, and it's where I start to think "shit finally takes shape!" (I pretty much moved from OFP to Arma II)

Enough blabla, I was so amazed and I even done 2 very short videos, so enjoy;

You are now invited to talk about your experiences in the world of bullet penetration.

[Windexglow 10]

You can use a pistol to kill a pilot in a bullet proofed canopy = )

Actually, with enough ammunition you can use your pistol to kill a tank..

[overk1ll 10]

You can use a pistol to kill a pilot in a bullet proofed canopy = )

Actually, with enough ammunition you can use your pistol to kill a tank..

Well, that's a little weak... As i understand it this has been the case with the previous game(s), this should really be fixed. Is it as bad now?

[Windexglow 10]

It'd take tens of thousands (if not hundreds) of pistol bullets to destroy a tank. I'm not sure how bad it was in ofp.

[overk1ll 10]

Well that's good to know at least.

[Maddmatt 1]

No big deal, the penetration system is not as complex as.. CoD 4

Rubbish. COD4 bullets don't even deviate from their path after penetrating. And their velocity isn't effected, since it isn't even modelled in the first place...

Anyway, it goes deeper than that. .50 cal bullets can penetrate concrete walls and corners of buildings. Bullet path is altered by bushes (you can see falling leaves and branches as bullets pass through).

Unlike ArmA, bullet calibre is taken into account. ArmA 1 only based it on velocity.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Maddmatt

[Praelium 0]

So can anyone confirm that a pistol cannot penetrate through cars in Arma II?

[Fishercat 10]

All I've played is the demo but I sent my 4 man squad to flank and I headed straight in and when I arrived 2 of the 4 were dead in their hummer. The other 2 were in the position that I sent them to.

[manberries 0]

Ok so I am not a modeler, but could you make a model with an extremely thin sheet of some material which uses the material penetration system to restrict small rounds from doing any damage against things that shouldnt be hurt by small rounds. Something like putting this thin layer on a tank and configing its penetration value to sabot only or something on those lines. Any thoughts on this?

[maturin 12]

I've tried it, and an M4 won't even go through an 18 inch tree trunk at point blank.

[randir14 10]

It doesn't really matter, you're not going to have the patience to shoot a pistol at a tank for hours, not to mention it will kill you before you get the chance to try. The damage vehicles can take is fine, the only problem is penetration. Like someone said, it's ridiculous that a pistol round will penetrate a helicopter's canopy.

[scener 10]

If you can destroy tank by pistol, the game would be so unrealistic.

This game is worth only when it has realism. Without realism, this game is not different from mindless shooting games like COD.

[maturin 12]

If you can destroy tank by pistol, the game would be so unrealistic.

This game is worth only when it has realism. Without realism, this game is not different from mindless shooting games like COD.

You can destroy a tank with a pistol in real life. Just get an unlimited amount of ammo and shoot the exact same weak spot for 17 years until you reach some sensitive component.

But it will never happen on the battlefield. Nor will it ever happen in Arma2. So it doesn't matter.

It does, however, reveal that the damage model is more simplistic than some would like.

[manberries 0]

I've tried it, and an M4 won't even go through an 18 inch tree trunk at point blank.

Shoot an m4 into an 18 in tree trunk irl and all you will get is some wood in your eye lol. If the m4 did penetrate that much tree it would be going extremely slow by the other end. Sometimes a soft material like live wood can be harder to penetrate than a thin sheet of metal.

[rowdied 44]

Rubbish. COD4 bullets don't even deviate from their path after penetrating. And their velocity isn't effected, since it isn't even modelled in the first place...

Anyway, it goes deeper than that. .50 cal bullets can penetrate concrete walls and corners of buildings. Bullet path is altered by bushes (you can see falling leaves and branches as bullets pass through).

Unlike ArmA, bullet calibre is taken into account. ArmA 1 only based it on velocity.

I was playing with a friend and we were both running towards an objective close to the water. With him 20 ms in front of me, I took a shot at the water to show him the spray and my 3rd or 4th shot was a tracer that riccochet of the water at a 35 degree angle and killed him dead away as he was watching me shoot. Funniest thing I've seen in a while. We had to restart the mission I made because of it but I was awestruck that the tracer would riccochet like that off the water.

I've also killed ememies with riccochets off of walls, fences, trees and roads. I've killed numerous enemies through fences and walled surfaces made of wood but never to my knowlegde through a car door.

I'm going to see if the m107 will penetrate a car door in the editor just to see.

[maturin 12]

Shoot an m4 into an 18 in tree trunk irl and all you will get is some wood in your eye lol. If the m4 did penetrate that much tree it would be going extremely slow by the other end. Sometimes a soft material like live wood can be harder to penetrate than a thin sheet of metal.

Oh. I keep hearing stuff like small trees don't count as cover and handgun rounds will go through trunks.

[manberries 0]

In game or IRL? In game a tree trunk is amazing for cover in heavily wooded areas. It has saved my ass many a times. IRL, penetration on soft targets for pistols can sometimes be higher than rifle rounds. This is because rifle rounds have less mass but many times more speed. They tend to tear themselves apart in anything soft. IRL a tree trunk isnt very good cover because its small, but shooting an m4 point blank range with an m4 wouldnt result in anything id call good. I remember a time when my family was having a reunion at a farm. Of course my uncles brought enough hardware to start a war. There was a medium sized tree they began to fire upon it for the next 2 hours. Most of them had 9 mm pistols at a range of 50 meters or so. Only my uncles .44 round penetrated it. My dad's akm did penetrate, but his g36 did not. Atleast, not at first. By the end the tree fell over due to all the rounds and things started to penetrate :D

[TangoRomeo 10]

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Edited July 12, 2009 by TangoRomeo

[manberries 0]

The first two videos are great for penetration of office structures and hard structures, but they really should of used ballistic gel dummies to represent the deadliness of the round after penetration. Also, I dont get what the point of putting vests without trauma plates on the manakins was. A vest without a trauma plate is like a car without gas. Also, I would love to see these tests done in other world style buildings. Some sandstone houses and just different construction types used around the word.

Edited July 12, 2009 by manberries

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

All I've played is the demo but I sent my 4 man squad to flank and I headed straight in and when I arrived 2 of the 4 were dead in their hummer. The other 2 were in the position that I sent them to.

on manhatten i ran into an ambush to the south (i went the long way, thinking it would be safer) and within seconds all my men as well as lingushina were dead. the humvee should be imperious to ak47 fire (though sustained pk fire and 12.7mm mg fire should tear it apart.

[Windexglow 10]

Very nice videos :)

[manberries 0]

The humvees in the game are not the up armored version. Except the m240 one. AK-47 fire will EASILY penetrate a normal humvee. Actually an ak47 penetrates a lot of things. Even the ak74, with a smaller but faster round, will penetrate a non up armored humvee, especially with sustained fire. A pkm will shred a normal humvee and within a few rounds in a single area (like a door) will penetrate an unarmored humvee as well.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

The humvees in the game are not the up armored version. Except the m240 one. AK-47 fire will EASILY penetrate a normal humvee. Actually an ak47 penetrates a lot of things. Even the ak74, with a smaller but faster round, will penetrate a non up armored humvee, especially with sustained fire. A pkm will shred a normal humvee and within a few rounds in a single area (like a door) will penetrate an unarmored humvee as well.

how well does the uparmored one do (irl and ingame)

---------- Post added at 06:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 AM ----------

Don't forget 'bullet proof' is kinda relative. Under enough sustained fire, not much a bullet proof.

the plate in a vest can only take 3 hits from the ak then it breaks

[manberries 0]

An uparmored humvee stops a 7.62 by 54mm round from a draganov, even the glass. However, sustained fire from either a draganov or pkm (same round) will penetrate any part of it. Small arms will generally not penetrate it. M16, AKM, AK74, AK107, AK103/108 none of them will penetrate first shot. There might be a few weak points that is improperly armored that may allow penetration (not sure) but overall they do not penetrate. Constant small arms against the bullet resistant glass will start to penetrate within a reasonable amount of time. The doors could probably take akm fire all day long. Thats all IRL. Ingame stuff, I am not sure but I am sure there is a ton more protection on the uparmored one. If you played the campaign mission where you use one, you would know.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

An uparmored humvee stops a 7.62 by 54mm round from a draganov, even the glass. However, sustained fire from either a draganov or pkm (same round) will penetrate any part of it. Small arms will generally not penetrate it. M16, AKM, AK74, AK107, AK103/108 none of them will penetrate first shot. There might be a few weak points that is improperly armored that may allow penetration (not sure) but overall they do not penetrate. Constant small arms against the bullet resistant glass will start to penetrate within a reasonable amount of time. The doors could probably take akm fire all day long. Thats all IRL. Ingame stuff, I am not sure but I am sure there is a ton more protection on the uparmored one. If you played the campaign mission where you use one, you would know.

u dont run into combat in that mission (except for a few guys at the checkpoint).