Transparency makes water disappear

[[frl]myke 14]

Hmmm...problems wont stop...at least i'm taking steps forward but editing in O2 is sometimes a mystery to me.

What i've done: till today i had the rotors of the CH47 completely as separate p3d files (front and back, blurred and normal) and added them as proxy to the chopper. This worked pretty fine.

Now i've included them to the CH47 main p3d and removed the proxies. Basically i've copy/pasted the models from the separate p3d's into the appropriate LOD of the main model.

So far anything works fine. They show up correctly ingame, they also switch from normal to blurred and back.

Where the problem arises is with the shadow and the transparency of the blurred rotors.

A pic says more than a thousand words, so here's a screenshot you may look at:

http://senduit.com/fb4321

As you can see, the water disappears through the transparent parts of the blurred rotors. Same goes for rotor downwash dust.

How do i fix this issue?

[[aps]gnat 28]

Myke,

You will see this discussed in a recent thread, a C130 blur thread I think, where I and others talk about trying to do this.

End Conclusion; BIS did the proxy rotors for a reason, because you need different properties in the main P3D to the rotor P3D.

..... I am going to have to convert the V22 to the proxy method.

EDIT: thread here;

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=75200

BTW, why did you drop the proxy method if it was working?

[[frl]myke 14]

Thanks for your answer Gnat (btw, really like your work as far as i saw it here).

I reverted from proxy method because of texturing issues. As i'm not making an own model (lack of knowledge and skill) but working on AfrographX CH47, i had issues with texture colors.

As i'm making several different colors for the Chinook (grey, black green and desert) and as the rotor has also colored parts, a proxy would have always one color for all for body colors unless i'll make a separate proxy for each color.

As the texture for these parts are part of the main body texture (UV texture it is called if i'm correct...you know, one big image with all parts on it), a non-proxy rotor would have the correct colors automatically applied when applying it to the main body.

However, as you say it is some sort of engine limitation, i will fall back to the proxy method. I think i can strip the parts that are affected by the different colored textures out of the proxy as these parts aren't blurred.

So i'll make the blurred parts as proxy and keep the texture-related parts on the main body.

Thanks Gnat, you helped me a lot.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Thanks for explaining Myke.

Per the other thread, keeping it in the same p3d there seems to be ways to reduce the effect (Move-Top the transparent, its own special rvmat etc), but theres always some side effect (missing self shadow) or minor visual problem.

There may be some perfect way of doing it, but not found it .....

cheers.

[[frl]myke 14]

Argh....now i've reverted to proxies and now there's a new problem...texture not transparent!

Please follow these steps i made:

First, i hab the blurred rotors as proxies. They worked fined and the blurred parts where transparent where they had to be. Sadly some parts of these first proxies had texture surfaces which should have been textured with same texture as main body (UV mapping).

So i've decided to include the blurred proxies into the main p3d so the respective parts will get the correct texture applied.

I just copy/pasted them from the blurred p3d into the main p3d. So far it worked but the problem with disappearing water and dust through the transparent parts of the blurred texture appeared (read first post about this).

As Gnat wrote this could be prevented by turning back to proxies, i've copy/pasted the blurred parts of the blur rotor into a new p3d file (sadly i've already deleted the first blurred versions i had at the beginning) and added a proxy to the main model for the blurred rotors.

Remember, in all those steps, the blurred texture was never changed in any way. Also the faces weren't changed at all. All i did was copy/pasting.

Now the problem is, where the blurred rotor should be transparent (which worked at the beginning) it is black and fully opaque.

What am i doing wrong? I bet it must be something horribly simple but i don't see it, obviously.

I know for the pro's out there it must be kinda annoying to read such noob stuff but i'm trying really hard to get into the matter. Sadly at a certain age, the learning curve flattens horribly close to zero.

[[aps]gnat 28]

lol ... I'm older than you! But at least I learnt never to delete, always copy/rename or backup elsewhere

OK ......

- How did you add the proxy to the main p3d, you should just select CREATE->PROXY then click BROWSE and just select your new rotor p3d

-

- Did you change the texture name? Is it still a xxxx_ca.paa texture?

- If you load it into TexView2, is the transparent bits grey? (grey indicates tranparent)

- did you completely delete the rotor from the main p3d?

- in the new rotor p3d

- in the new rotor p3d do you have Properties Name;

autocenter 0

LODNoShadow 1

- were you using an RVMAT with the transparent texture? If so, is that still referenced in the Face Properties

- is your rotor blur named;

mala vrtule blur

& mala vrtule

or

velka vrtule blur

& velka vrtule

- Your proxy(s) in the main p3d model should be named the same also.

- in O2 when you double click a texture name it usually opens a window and gives you a preview of the texture. Transparent sections will have a checker pattern in that preview.

My rotor texture RVMAT is

Quote[/b] ]ambient[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};

diffuse[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};

forcedDiffuse[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

emmisive[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

specular[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

specularPower = 1;

nextPass = "ca\data\data\sklo-pass2.rvmat";

PixelShaderID = "Normal";

VertexShaderID = "Basic";

....... out of ideas now ......

[[frl]myke 14]

Quote[/b] ]But at least I learnt never to delete, always copy/rename or backup elsewhere

Now you tell me.  

Quote[/b] ]- How did you add the proxy to the main p3d, you should just select CREATE->PROXY then click BROWSE and just select your new rotor p3d

Did it exactly this way. But the non-transparent issue is also in the rotor.p3d, not only in the main model.

Quote[/b] ]- Did you change the texture name? Is it still a xxxx_ca.paa texture?

Nope, it is still the same texture as it is since i've started with the model. Neither did i edited the texture nor did i rename it at any point.

Quote[/b] ]- If you load it into TexView2, is the transparent bits grey? (grey indicates tranparent)

Definately yes. As i said before, it worked before (as proxy at first and afterwards into the main model p3d).

Quote[/b] ]- did you completely delete the rotor from the main p3d?

Well, i've deleted the blurred rotorblades as the shaft remains on the main model (not blurred). The proxy for the blurred blades is together inside the named selection "mala vrtule" and "mala vrtule blur" (not yet changed the other rotor "velka").

Quote[/b] ]- in the new rotor p3d do you have Properties Name;

     autocenter 0

     LODNoShadow 1

As you were asking, i've checked this and it's a "yes" for both.

Quote[/b] ]- were you using an RVMAT with the transparent texture? If so, is that still referenced in the Face Properties

Definately yes. This part never changed since the beginning.

Quote[/b] ]- is your rotor blur named;

      mala vrtule blur

&      mala vrtule

Definately yes.

Quote[/b] ]- Your proxy(s) in the main p3d model should be named the same also.

Definately yes, By looking at BIS models i see that it is as follows:

mala (velka) vrtule = all rotor parts, blurred and non-blurred

mala (velka) vrtule blur = parts from rotor that has to be visible when rotating at full speed

mala (velka) vrtule staticka = parts from rotor that has to be visible if not rotating or powering up, before blurred takes place.

So mala (velka) vrtule contains all parts that are in blur and staticka.

Quote[/b] ]- in O2 when you double click a texture name it usually opens a window and gives you a preview of the texture. Transparent sections will have a checker pattern in that preview.

Hmm...it doesn't do that at my side, instead windows is asking me which application should be used to open this file.

Quote[/b] ]My rotor texture RVMAT is...

...and here's mine:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

ambient[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};

diffuse[] = {1, 1, 1, 1};

forcedDiffuse[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

emmisive[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

specular[] = {0, 0, 0, 1};

specularPower = 1;

nextPass = "glt_chinook\mat\sklo_pass_rv.rvmat";

PixelShaderID = "Normal";

VertexShaderID = "Basic";

Quote[/b] ]....... out of ideas now ......

hmpf, i hoped you could see what i'm doing wrong. Thanks anyway for your time, mate.

:EDIT:

GOT IT!

It was the rvmat. Somehow the 2nd pass didn't worked properly. Changed it to ca\data\data\sklo-pass2 and now it is transparent.

Don't know why now it wouldn't work as it worked all time before. I didn't deleted anything nor did i rename anything in the rvmats. Will research on it, maybe it helps if later some purposes arises.

Gnat, you saved Sunday for me. IOU a beer, mate.

:EDIT2:

ARGH...now the transparent parts make the main body disappear!

[[aps]gnat 28]

LOL .... welcome to ArmA mod'in .... just when you fix one thing .... another comes along!

Try starting with your rotor p3d;

- Select all and MOVE ALL TOP

- if that doesnt, MOVE ALL BOTTOM

- if that still doesn't, try the same above in the main p3d with each of the combinations of the rotor p3d

You may be able to see the effects in Buldozer, you may not have to PBO it and text each time.

In saying that, theses days I always Binize the addon and test .... as things have proven to change when you do this, its the only TRUE test.

[scars09 9]

could be a wanted effect, check

\CA\water\data\antiwater_ca.paa for any similarities to your own texture.

[[frl]myke 14]

Thanks Gnat, i see you know about the problems that may arise from time to time. Good to see it doesn't only happen to me.  

Anyway, btt. I knew about this faces top/bottom since i had the same on another model with windows.

However, as always i could have missed something and as i do follow instructions given, i've tried all possible top/bottom combinations: top/top, top/bottom, bottom/top & bottom/bottom.

None of them showed the wanted effect.

@Scars

it worked with the same texture before. All i changed was deleting the blurred blades in the main p3d and making an own p3d for it. It is just copy/pasted. Nothing edited.

A pic how it looks like: http://senduit.com/d97f83

:EDIT:

the loons you see sitting there are proxies in the model, so they are NOT part of it.

:EDIT2:

Quote[/b] ]In saying that, theses days I always Binize the addon and test .... as things have proven to change when you do this, its the only TRUE test.

I should learn to better listen to the older people. You're right, after binarizing/pbo'ing the effect is gone. Everything looks right ingame. Thanks for your help and patience, mate. Really appreciate it. And forget the beer, i owe you a whiskey.

[[aps]gnat 28]

lol ... good to hear.

oh, and *old* whiskey, ok.