Poor mission scripting

[Quenaelin 0]

I bought this game while ago but just last week started playing through campaign and noticed that many missions are poorly scripted, for example in missions where you are suppose to blow bridge leading to Dolores and defend city against tank attack, in start of the mission you have no rifle ammo in the beginning of the mission, wtf no ammo not even single round? Then there is no noticement or end of mission, even if mission conditions aren't fulfilled. I killed all tanks and still mission wasn't ending, just becouse my Humwee was exploded by enemy fire and that Humwee was part of the ending script = poor mission scripting. I don't remember this kind of mission scripting bugs in OFP, missions were always ending if mission conditions wasn't right, but in ArmA you could be playing long time only to realize that you cannot accomplish that missions anymore becouse something in scripting was broken I wonder is Queens Gambit better scripted than ArmA campaign?

[wolfsblut_ 0]

In the QG-mission with the mercenaries you get this: You cant command the leader-Team-AI but you have to babysitting him not to die when he stumbles through the mission. And of course you have to watch yourself not to die.

I tried this on 100%-Enemy-and-100%-Friendly-AI-skill and the result was that i canceled the campaign after 5 minutes. I was very lucky that i got QG for free and didnt waste money.

[Amoki 0]

Quote[/b] ]for example in missions where you are suppose to blow bridge leading to Dolores and defend city against tank attack, in start of the mission you have no rifle ammo in the beginning of the mission, wtf no ammo not even single round?

That's because you didn't take a close look at your briefing while in the vehicle did you? You are supposed to place satchel charges underneath the bridge, and then pick up an arms cache nearby which has more than enough ammo for John Rambo to use.

(Arms Cache is to your very far right. You follow the beach line after you place the satchels, then when you no longer see the bridge walk straight up to coast and look around. You'll see a arms cache at a spot which allows you to see the end of the bridge where the tanks are moving to)

Quote[/b] ]Then there is no noticement or end of mission, even if mission conditions aren't fulfilled. I killed all tanks and still mission wasn't ending, just becouse my Humwee was exploded by enemy fire and that Humwee was part of the ending script = poor mission scripting.

Eh, what? You are suppose to go back to base to support the defence for the Dolores bridge mission, and then you'll get a call to retreat. And how can you trigger the scripts when you don't fulfill the mission conditions?

Quote[/b] ]in ArmA you could be playing long time only to realize that you cannot accomplish that missions anymore becouse something in scripting was broken

With the exception of one of the single player mission (Commander?, but even that was fixed with the 1.08 patch), I played ArmA twice without any scripting drama that you describe. Really, have you patched your game?

Quote[/b] ]I wonder is Queens Gambit better scripted than ArmA campaign?

Slightly better story than ArmA in general yes, but better scripting... I dunno. I don't have much problems with the ArmA campaign to start with, but that's just me.

[Amoki 0]

In the QG-mission with the mercenaries you get this: You cant command the leader-Team-AI but you have to babysitting him not to die when he stumbles through the mission. And of course you have to watch yourself not to die.

While the team leader AI can die, you probably haven't try sitting on top of the gravel pit have you? Where you can have near 360* coverage of the battle area, and shoot everything that moves?

And what do you mean by you being able to get QG for free? the only way I can think off is... via illegal download.

[xnodunitx 0]

And the moral of this thread...RTFB (Read The Breifing)

[Quenaelin 0]

Yeah, I read the briefing and run immedietly to ammo stash and killed all tanks with LAW launcher, but still there should be full magazine in start of the mission, who uses empty magazine when under enemy threat when you start mission = poor scripting = scripting bug. In my mission enemy was able to destroy my Humwee before I managed to escape with it, still got no end of mission. Then I killed all the enemy tanks and vehicles and I got no end of mission. I was just running around in the map without any enemies to kill and mission wasn't ending just becouse missions conditions were broken = poor mission scripting.

I give you other example of poor missions scripting. Same endless mission thing happened in sniper mission where you are suppose to snipe Ural truck convoy from top of the water tower and then escape with Humwee, If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end, even if you drive Humwee yourself to escape location = poor mission scripting.

[Quenaelin 0]

In the QG-mission with the mercenaries you get this: You cant command the leader-Team-AI but you have to babysitting him not to die when he stumbles through the mission. And of course you have to watch yourself not to die.

I tried this on 100%-Enemy-and-100%-Friendly-AI-skill and the result was that i canceled the campaign after 5 minutes. I was very lucky that i got QG for free and didnt waste money.

Babysitting is what I hate, why can't they give you own mercenary team to control, idea for buying weapons sounds fun. How about if I "accidentally" shoot AI team leader in the leg in the beginning of the mission to keep him safe, does mission end if I do that?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]but still there should be full magazine in start of the mission, who uses empty magazine when under enemy threat when you start mission = poor scripting = scripting bug.

Nonsense. You simply need all of the slots in your gear for the explosives. That´s why you have no ammunition. Would be kind of funny to see the threads that say that you can´t blow up the bridge because you have only 3 of them with you...

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.

[Trapper 0]

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.

No, he's right about that. Such a simplistic mission should come with a plan B escape if the hummer is ambushed. CWC was full of plan Bs.

[Amoki 0]

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.  

No, he's right about that. Such a simplistic mission should come with a plan B escape if the hummer is ambushed. CWC was full of plan Bs.

That's because you have to be a uber-crap shot to not to nail all of those SLAgs in that mission... seriously, SPR and 300-400m engagement range = bliss, and how someone can manage to get pass you is really hard to understand.

[Amoki 0]

Yeah, I read the briefing and run immedietly to ammo stash and killed all tanks with LAW launcher, but still there should be full magazine in start of the mission, who uses empty magazine when under enemy threat when you start mission = poor scripting = scripting bug. In my mission enemy was able to destroy my Humwee before I managed to escape with it, still got no end of mission. Then I killed all the enemy tanks and vehicles and I got no end of mission. I was just running around in the map without any enemies to kill and mission wasn't ending just becouse missions conditions were broken = poor mission scripting.

I give you other example of poor missions scripting. Same endless mission thing happened in sniper mission where you are suppose to snipe Ural truck convoy from top of the water tower and then escape with Humwee, If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end, even if you drive Humwee yourself to escape location = poor mission scripting.

The mission was to blow up the bridge, not kill all the tanks. Tank killing is optional (and fun! but if you choose to take the boat underneath the third bridge back to base, you can. You can choose not to kill the tanks, but you cannot choose not to blow up the bridge.

[fasad 1]

I think the ArmA SP missions/campaign were a bit weak, but unfortunately that is the norm for game design.

Mission designers should ideally consider all possible scenarios, and let the mission adapt. Unfortunately this can be a huge amount of work, especially in the case of a campaign. For example, in the first QG royal gambit mission, should the mission designers have created an alternate branch of the campaign in which the leader is dead from the very first mission? (That mission took me ages to complete, simply because my leader kept dieing).

I guess it's a compromise - if you want to tell a story (which BI seem to be keen on for ArmA2), you need characters. If you have characters, you need to make missions that cover all scenarios of some dead characters, or you need to all the key characters alive. This can be done by making missions fail if any key character dies, or as ArmA2 seems to be headed, use some kind of revival. Either way is unrealistic, but it keeps the workload down and makes the game a little more motivating/interesting. The alternatives are to have no characters, and then you end up with a dull, soulless campaign like Armed Assault, or keep them out of danger completely, which is kind of weak IMO, although a very frequently used method in most games.

One thing I was impressed by in Royal Flush was is the cut-scene before the last misson, where your grunts are giving you advice. The dialogue worked well even though I only had 2 of the original 4 grunt characters left.

Getting back to individual missions, then yes, I really would prefer more flexibility in the mission design/scripting.

Blah, blah, blah

[Quenaelin 0]

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.

No, he's right about that. Such a simplistic mission should come with a plan B escape if the hummer is ambushed. CWC was full of plan Bs.

That's because you have to be a uber-crap shot to not to nail all of those SLAgs in that mission... seriously, SPR and 300-400m engagement range = bliss, and how someone can manage to get pass you is really hard to understand.

I have to admit that I let them pass me to close range just becouse I am so bad shooter with sniper rifle, I need 3 rounds burst atleast or preferably machinegun. I was hiding in the bushes and nailed them all in close range, but meanwhile they managed to sneak past me and kill my driver. I need more practise with sniping.

Becouse my sniping skills aren't very good I used Jeep with machinegun in mission where you have to snipe high rank officer inside hotel, I just shooted his car and nailed everybody in the hotel with machinegun which was hidden behind trees on top of the mountain

[Amoki 0]

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.  

No, he's right about that. Such a simplistic mission should come with a plan B escape if the hummer is ambushed. CWC was full of plan Bs.

That's because you have to be a uber-crap shot to not to nail all of those SLAgs in that mission... seriously, SPR and 300-400m engagement range = bliss, and how someone can manage to get pass you is really hard to understand.

I have to admit that I let them pass me to close range just becouse I am so bad shooter with sniper rifle, I need 3 rounds burst atleast or preferably machinegun. I was hiding in the bushes and nailed them all in close range, but meanwhile they managed to sneak past me and kill my driver. I need more practise with sniping.

Becouse my sniping skills aren't very good I used Jeep with machinegun in mission where you have to snipe high rank officer inside hotel, I just shooted his car and nailed everybody in the hotel with machinegun which was hidden behind trees on top of the mountain

Not meaning to be nasty, but... eh... you need to learn to RTFB.

For that sniper mission you are told to go on top of the water tower. With scenic views like that, you usually just need the first 3 shot to get the zero "right", and then it's a matter of just picking off the poor SLAgs. Heck, if you are quick, you can even nail 3-4 of them while they're still mounted on the truck, poor bastards.  

[Amoki 0]

I think the ArmA SP missions/campaign were a bit weak, but unfortunately that is the norm for game design.

Mission designers should ideally consider all possible scenarios, and let the mission adapt. Unfortunately this can be a huge amount of work, especially in the case of a campaign. For example, in the first QG royal gambit mission, should the mission designers have created an alternate branch of the campaign in which the leader is dead from the very first mission? (That mission took me ages to complete, simply because my leader kept dieing).

I guess it's a compromise - if you want to tell a story (which BI seem to be keen on for ArmA2), you need characters. If you have characters, you need to make missions that cover all scenarios of some dead characters, or you need to all the key characters alive. This can be done by making missions fail if any key character dies, or as ArmA2 seems to be headed, use some kind of revival. Either way is unrealistic, but it keeps the workload down and makes the game a little more motivating/interesting. The alternatives are to have no characters, and then you end up with a dull, soulless campaign like Armed Assault, or keep them out of danger completely, which is kind of weak IMO, although a very frequently used method in most games.

One thing I was impressed by in Royal Flush was is the cut-scene before the last misson, where your grunts are giving you advice. The dialogue worked well even though I only had 2 of the original 4 grunt characters left.

Getting back to individual missions, then yes, I really would prefer more flexibility in the mission design/scripting.

Blah, blah, blah  

Truth be told I don't know why people are having such a hard time with the first mission. Yeah, sure it does take a fair bit of trial and error - but once you found the sweet-spot (on top of the one of the gravel pits), usually the enemies come at you one direction at a time. On my second go at RF I actually manage to get everyone out intact by the end of the mission (ending look more bad-ass if you've got everyone from your original team alive) - and if you keep them alive in the first mission you'll keep them alive for the rest of the campaign.

That said, in general even in QG ArmA's team AI can be very frustrating at times. The TV station mission actually took a fair bit of trial and error to put the AI at the right place, facing the right direction since there is no way you can defend the place yourself in typical ArmA fashion.

Be sure to let the prince die btw - you'll unlock the other ending.  

[Quenaelin 0]

Quote[/b] ]If enemy manages to sneak past you and kill your driver mission doesn't end

Again, mission failed because you didn´t fulfill the mission requirenments. That´s not poor scripting, but poor aiming on your side.

No, he's right about that. Such a simplistic mission should come with a plan B escape if the hummer is ambushed. CWC was full of plan Bs.

That's because you have to be a uber-crap shot to not to nail all of those SLAgs in that mission... seriously, SPR and 300-400m engagement range = bliss, and how someone can manage to get pass you is really hard to understand.

I have to admit that I let them pass me to close range just becouse I am so bad shooter with sniper rifle, I need 3 rounds burst atleast or preferably machinegun. I was hiding in the bushes and nailed them all in close range, but meanwhile they managed to sneak past me and kill my driver. I need more practise with sniping.

Becouse my sniping skills aren't very good I used Jeep with machinegun in mission where you have to snipe high rank officer inside hotel, I just shooted his car and nailed everybody in the hotel with machinegun which was hidden behind trees on top of the mountain

Not meaning to be nasty, but... eh... you need to learn to RTFB.

For that sniper mission you are told to go on top of the water tower. With scenic views like that, you usually just need the first 3 shot to get the zero "right", and then it's a matter of just picking off the poor SLAgs. Heck, if you are quick, you can even nail 3-4 of them while they're still mounted on the truck, poor bastards.

I've read TFB and was top of the water tower and let them to close range, then nailed some of them and came down from tower only to see enemy soldiers running past me to Humwee and killed my driver

[NoRailgunner 0]

Different scenarios need different tactics. ArmA is different to those mainstream corridor (CQB) shooters.

Quote[/b] ]I've read TFB and was top of the water tower and let them to close range

So why you've got an SPR

Quote[/b] ]and came down from tower only to see enemy soldiers running past me to Humwee and killed my driver

Lucky if they didn't shoot you down when you climb down the ladder. What kind of better OPFOR tactics would you script? Place yourself into OPFOR side.... you got ambushed will you ignore it?

[Quenaelin 0]

Missions ending conditions should be scripted better, if your driver gets shot missions automatically ends, so you can restart mission immediatly again. It is really frustating to kill all remaining enemies hiding in the bushes, only to realize you can't complete mission anymore becouse mission conditions are broken Same thing in bridge mission, if your Humwee is destroyed mission should end with missions failed noticement -> "MISSION FAILED: Your transport was destroyed".

[NoRailgunner 0]

Quote[/b] ]...missions automatically ends, so you can restart mission immediatly again.

That solution maybe fit for very easy setting.

Imho the player should be aware of "returning home" (RTB) and keep an eye on it too. Another solution can be that the player has to radio to exfil and go wherever its safe for transport.

Good campaigns and mission design need time to develop and test. On the other hand many people don't look at singleplayer missions and go straight to multiplayer.

[Amoki 0]

Missions ending conditions should be scripted better, if your driver gets shot missions automatically ends, so you can restart mission immediatly again. It is really frustating to kill all remaining enemies hiding in the bushes, only to realize you can't complete mission anymore becouse mission conditions are broken Same thing in bridge mission, if your Humwee is destroyed mission should end with missions failed noticement -> "MISSION FAILED: Your transport was destroyed".

Have you consider that no one thought about idiot-proofing that mission because... no one really thought that killing all the SLAgs in that convoy is THAT difficult?

Seriously. You either get tunneled vision a lot, or you're downright a baaad shot.

[sulman 12]

I think the complexity of some of the units involved causes problems. There's one mission in the campaign I've only managed to finish once (with the strykers at the airbase, and repelling the beach assault) because there's been trigger problems in the last bit - no enemy armour appears.

Arma does seem to suffer from units 'wandering off' and buggering up the triggers.

[Quenaelin 0]

Missions ending conditions should be scripted better, if your driver gets shot missions automatically ends, so you can restart mission immediatly again. It is really frustating to kill all remaining enemies hiding in the bushes, only to realize you can't complete mission anymore becouse mission conditions are broken Same thing in bridge mission, if your Humwee is destroyed mission should end with missions failed noticement -> "MISSION FAILED: Your transport was destroyed".

Have you consider that no one thought about idiot-proofing that mission because... no one really thought that killing all the SLAgs in that convoy is THAT difficult?

Seriously. You either get tunneled vision a lot, or you're downright a baaad shot.

I already said in my previous post that sniper rifle isn't my weapon of choice. I need to practise more with it