Longinius 1 Posted February 27, 2002 "oddly enough the US almost NEVER lost a battle in vietnam.... but things were so screwed from the get-go that no matter how well the US did there was really no way it could actually win.. it was a real square peg/round hole situation.. " What about the Tet offensive? They got a good whooping then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 What about the Tet offensive? They got a good whooping then. read up about it.. the Tet offensive was the single bigges LOSS the NVA took during the war.. every single place they attacked they were kiced out of within a few days with MASSIVE casualties.. it was a total logistical failure.. it pissed of the american public though because they didnt theink the NVA had any more fight left.. but the Tet Offenseive was by no streatch of the imagination a battle lost by the US.. it waws one of the US's biggest military victiories in the war.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 oh, the offical numbers from the tet are NVA: 45,000 dead and nearly 7000 catpured America and its ARVN : 4,300 killed in action, some 16,000 wounded and over 1,000 missing in action add that to the fact that the NVA/VC were quickly kicked out of every single place they attacked.. you cant call it much of a victory for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted February 27, 2002 Yeah, but they still managed to do something that was quite unexpected. And it was one of the turning points of the war as it highly effected the American morale and opinions back home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 true.. but it was still a major loss by the NVA/VC.. Â the effect it had on the public was that they had been told that the NVA was on the verge of giving up.. they they see this massive attack launched by them.. and say "what the hell " also the media didnt help.. it totally ignored the fact that the NVA/VC had been utterly crushed in tet and just kept vaunting the fact that they actually made that attack.. the media was VERY VERY anti-vietnam war by this point so every single story that came out they put a negative twist one. remember Hanoi Jane? some people blame the Hippies for losing Vietnam.. who knows... but its plane that under a democracy if a war isnt supported by the people, it shouldent be fought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted February 27, 2002 "also the media didnt help.. it totally ignored the fact that the NVA/VC had been utterly crushed in tet and just kept vaunting the fact that they actually made that attack.. the media was VERY VERY anti-vietnam war by this point so every single story that came out they put a negative twist one. remember Hanoi Jane? " That is one thing the Americans learned though. We witnessed that in later wars, like Desert Storm. Gotta keep a tight lid on the media during war time or they will start fucking everything up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nordin dk 0 Posted February 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AntiPasta @ Feb. 27 2002,20:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...if he wants to act in the benefit of het American people (lowering tax, increasing defense budget, not paying UN contribution) he just does it and doesn't give a damn about you British or Dutch or whatever...<span id='postcolor'> Do you really believe these three things are in the benefit of the American people? Flame.....coming on....must resist urge.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 UN contribution jesus christ, the US already pays 1/4 of ALL the costs of NATO.. which has 16 countries (I think its 16).. if the UN wants more money from the US.. tell it to get in line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted February 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 27 2002,21:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Whatever YOU guys may think Vietnam was, it was never declared a war, so it ISN'T a war." Honestly I don't care what it was declared. Ask a Vietnamese survivor and I am pretty sure they will say they lived through a war. If you use artillery, tanks, bombs, napalm, chemical warfare and massive amounts of troops its a war no matter what you wish to call it. "Also as has been pointed out it was more of another stalemate then an outright loss. South Vietnam wasn't lost until AFTER America left, and AFTER the Paris Treaty was signed...." Just because the Americans ran off before the south was overrun doesnt make it any less of a defeat. "c'mon STFU about Bush being stupid or at least back it up with some facts..." I don't know if he is stupid. He sure is no public speaker though. And he has a scary tendency to mix words up and cause unrest in both politics and economy to the likes of NO other world leader in history. Does that make him stupid? Your call... "I think Bush has handled the 9-11 crisis quite well and we mustn't forget that he's the president of the AMERICANS so if he wants to act in the benefit of het American people (lowering tax, increasing defense budget, not paying UN contribution) he just does it and doesn't give a damn about you British or Dutch or whatever..." I don't think Bush acts all that much on his own. He is the figure head but I doubt he calls the shots. He just takes them to the public. That is the way it has been with most presidents.<span id='postcolor'> ---oh it was a war to the Vietnamese no doubt. The Communist North was trying to take over the "free" south....one country divided thats a civil war....it wasn't a war to the US in technical terms though by extension you shoot at someone else its war.... ---"Americans ran off"? More like America pulled out after public indignation and opinion forced the government out. As they finally said...its their war...they'll have to win or lose it... ---I don't agree with your assessment of Bush's speaking ability...he's quick on his feet when speaking, and is a good orator....this from a lowly American who has watched all his speeches since 9/11....and what unrest are you talking about politically and economically? And I can think of a few people that stirred shit A LOT more than Bush.... ---Bush does call the shots, with advisment from his Cabinet...he is not the "figurehead"....he ain't some damn King we're talking about....been the way with most presidents? Back that up.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted February 27, 2002 Any of you guys(americans) have family members that fought in vietnam ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 correct akira, bush is the figurehaed of US democracy.. he doesent make the decisiona all by himeslf.. he has a hand in it for sure, but by no streatch does he have free will to do what he wishes with the gov, military or anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madmike 0 Posted February 27, 2002 Priministers and presidents are just puppets used to inform people, they dont make any important decisions. No offence but I think bush is very stupid and his speeches must be written by 5 year olds. ALso the fact that he struggles to EAT properly is worrying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 Any of you guys(americans) have family members that fought in vietnam my stepdad was a slick pilot, he never talked much about it though.. died of heart disease a few months ago. he had (now I have) one of the bet collections of books written by people who served in vietnam.. very very good stuff. my fave is one by a guy was a LLRP.. scary shit them folks did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted February 27, 2002 "I don't agree with your assessment of Bush's speaking ability...he's quick on his feet when speaking, and is a good orator" Sure he is "....this from a lowly American who has watched all his speeches since 9/11....and what unrest are you talking about politically and economically? And I can think of a few people that stirred shit A LOT more than Bush...." Well, there was the recent yen incident, for starters. And the fact that he mixed up South America with what he called another country. And wasn't it him who also refered to Africa as a country? Yeah, real smart man. Real good speaker to. I'd link one of the many websites with Bush quotes and slip ups but since I cant check the authentisity of those pages I wont do it. You can easily search for them yourself though. Any search engine, enter "bush quotes" "---Bush does call the shots, with advisment from his Cabinet...he is not the "figurehead"....he ain't some damn King we're talking about....been the way with most presidents? Back that up.... " Bush is the supreme leader but he hardly calls the shots. Think of him as any regular CEO, he does what his advisors tell him to do because there is no way in hell he can stay constantly well informed in all areas himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted February 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Feb. 27 2002,22:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Any of you guys(americans) have family members that fought in vietnam ?<span id='postcolor'> My Dad did....both grandpas in WW2 and my grandma (nurse)...great grandpa in WW1....cousin in Desert Storm....guess that goes beyond what you were asking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Op 0 Posted February 27, 2002 its sad how more than double the number of US soldiers killed in Vietnam have commited suicide after returning home Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 Well, there was the recent yen incident, for starters. And the fact that he mixed up South America with what he called another country. And wasn't it him who also refered to Africa as a country? Yeah, real smart man. Real good speaker to. all leaders of all countries make stupid little goofy mistakes and mis-speaks now and then, people just play up BUsh's because of his little interview where he didnt know a few obscure military leaders and the fact that he is from TX (dumb hick kinda shit)... Â Bush also has the highest public approval rating in american history. its sad how more than double the number of US soldiers killed in Vietnam have commited suicide after returning home well look at what they went through.. and then look how they were treated when they got back... many were refused jobs spat on..etc etc.. they did heroic jobs and got treated by criminals by their own countrymen.. Doesent suprise me a bit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted February 27, 2002 My grandfather was an green beret fighting in vietnam.He died in the 70s of cancer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madmike 0 Posted February 27, 2002 Could someone give me a link to a page with all his dumbass quotes. My mate showed me a book with all the stupid stuff that clinton had said and it was funny as hell. Was it bush that said the US econemy is more important than the survival of the planet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted February 27, 2002 *sigh* Yes I know Bush can't possibly make all the informed decisions himself...thus the Cabinet. No man could. And no leader does....but it is a far cry from a "figruehead" which does nothing and looks pretty (see the Queen...ok...maybe not the pretty part)....he DOES make decisions...you say he is a figurehead and also complain about him bombing Afghanistan....those don't jive... And HEY! watch it about Texas! I'm in Austin, Texas, work for the state government...have been around Bush when he visited the House. And I ain't no damn hick! Austin is the one culture oasis in Texas... And spare me about his gafaws and mistakes....I promise you YOUR leaders ain't as bright as they let on either....Bush was ambushed by a Democratic media...and you go ask your leader who the PM or Military leader of Nauru is....and tell me how he does.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madmike 0 Posted February 27, 2002 I odnt have a leader, only the weak need leaders, such as sheep. I dont like tony blair, but find one quote that he has said that is as stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 Yea, im from Victoria.. Im getting kinda sick of the "dumb texan" shit too.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted February 27, 2002 its tough being a texan on an international board.. first ya have all the eurotrash bashing your country.. then the other idiots caling ya an imbred hick!! bah!! fuckem! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted February 27, 2002 texans=rednecks They sit on their lawn chairs all day shirtless drinking dr.pepper,and getting sunburn,and smacking their wifes around,which is their cousin(european style).They have these big ford/chevy trucks.They like to put their hoods on and chase raccoons around,and burning crosses. Just Joking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thehamster 0 Posted February 27, 2002 Bush isn’t the smartest cookie in the jar but what really tops it off is his backwards view on execution, pollution etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
