This hateful lovely M21

[E6Rackley 0]

Just a note on the M-21 all it is not only acurate out to 150M please you can throw a rock that far, the M-16 is acurate to a point target out to 550m 800 to an area target. Now the M-21 is capable of reaching targets as far out as 1000m. Geeze 150m where did that come from? Oh let me guess your extent of military knowledge if from playing these games, lol.

[E6Rackley 0]

King Kong in response to your reply the Round for the AK-74 is a 5.56x45 not 39 the AK-47 is a 7.62x39 so now who is the idiot my friend. And besides a NATO round is always refferd to in matric for or else we'd call it a .223 or a .308.

[russin 0]

sniper rifles work awesome for me at any range up to 500-600 meters ahhhh hahaha ahhhh haaaaaa just need lots and lots of pratice

BOW YOUR HEAD!!!

[redvex 0]

Hey guys I have no problem killing people at high ranges, but I dislike the crosshair's low precision

[LARD 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from E6Rackley on 7:37 am on Nov. 13, 2001

Just a note on the M-21 all it is not only acurate out to 150M please you can throw a rock that far, the M-16 is acurate to a point target out to 550m 800 to an area target. Now the M-21 is capable of reaching targets as far out as 1000m. Geeze 150m where did that come from? Oh let me guess your extent of military knowledge if from playing these games, lol.

<span id='postcolor'>

This made me laugh my arse off too.

The British SA80's sight is zeroed to 500metres, and that's an assault rifle not sniper.

[Bergmania 0]

They didn't just put on a sight.. it has a match grade barrel and some extra trimmings..

It is a deluxe M-14.. But the Marines is right.. the M40 is a better sniper rifle..

And by the way the AK-74 fires the 5.45 x 39mm

Check it out <a href="http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/

.223" target="_blank">http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/

.223</a> = 5.56x45

.308 = 7.62x51

But there is a polish sortof AK74 that is chambered with 5.56x45.. The Beryl.. :-)

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/foreign/hem2.passagen.se/dadkri/Beryl.htm

AND Battle rifle, Assault rifle.. Almost the same thing.. But the H&K G3 is both.. Submachinegun is also a term that is very over used.. as it realy only should apply to full automatic weapons that fires pistol ammo..

(Edited by Bergmania at 3:10 am on Nov. 15, 2001)

[Camel 0]

Why cant BI implement a silenced sniper rifle?

that would be sweet.

[tsudhonimh 0]

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/

[BoonieRat 0]

Man this is one love thy neighbour site, or what?, who cares, there are so many re~hashed versions of such and such said rifle, that you're ALL probably bloody right;), if all you wanna do is show of your expertise of trivia, what are you doing it on a game site for?

Silencers on sniper rifles are anatheima(gosh!, not only did i spell it wromg, i DONT KNOW what it means!! :@!!, queue the argument:!),

they take alot of power out of the muzzle velo',makeing it only effective at closer range,especialy as you need a sub~sonic round with them, but i know what you mean, it would be kinda sexy,

[Frizbee 0]

Remember that the ranges quoted of 600m-800m are the EFFECTIVE range of the weapon. Not the maximum range.

They call it the Effective range because that is the range that produces the best (tightest) round grouping without having to adjust the scope/sights massively for each target at that range.

[unholy chosen one 1]

you guys kill me. the m21 is a modified m14 both use a 7.62 roundthe m21 has a slightly longer barrel and rifled to to match specifications for longer distances. both rifles are varients of the .30 cal. m1. there is a third version called an m24 that will fire in semi , burst and full auto. the m16

was designed from a ar15 both made by colt. the ar15 is shorter and only fired in semi. at the start of the vietnam conflict they introduced the m16a1 it had semi and full auto capability. the first version was a 7.62. it was rechambered

to take the nato 5.56. after vietnam they came out with m16a2 which no longer had the full auto feature because of the amount of ammo the u.s. wasted. you can find out about all the weapons in this game from a several web sites around the net if you want/need to know. asking people in here may get you the right answer but most likely not. the m21 and drugunov have very accurate ranges with an expert sniper of 1500 meters or better with the right weather conditions( yes it makes a difference thats why you may have to compensate for longer ranges, you cant tweak the scopes in this game to account for distance and wind)

[ScreamingWithNoSound 0]

Lol I think the point about ammo wastage, is more to do with rookies burning all their ammo cause they were sh*tting lumps when the VC came-a-calling... then getting killed cause the VC could just run up to them and they couldn't fight back...

How true that is, I don't know, but lets face it... The French, British, Germans, Austrians, Australians all give their troops weapons that can fire full auto. All these nations are noted for the training of their troops... The US is not. Co-inky-dink?

[unholy chosen one 1]

the U.S. is becoming more and more concerned with stand off

combat tactics and weapons. thats why you are seing the landwarrior equipment. there are variations that now have

a liquid crystal display and small camera mounted to the m4

so all you have to do is put your rifle over/around a corner to see and kill your target.sooner or later they wont use human troops anymore they will use mechanical "soldiers"

controled by remote computers. and can you blame them being shot realy realy realy hurts. and the reason they dont train with full auto is they would rather be accurate then just fill the air with lead , thats what they have the 249 and m60 for. but i can assure you vietnam is the reason they altered the m16 to go burst and semi only , i worked for colt for a couple years and the entire story is their museum.

[Rifleman 0]

heh i heard that in vietnam it took on average a 100,000 rounds of M16 ammo to kill 1 VC

if u see footage of them they just stick they m16's up and fire the whole clip out

i dont blame em i wouldnt want to stick my head up and get killed, specially in a d*mn stupid war like Vietnam

[KillorLive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from King Kong on 9:48 pm on Nov. 11, 2001

M14 is NOT A f**kING MACHINEGUN YOU f**kING IDIOT!

M14 IS A f**kING ASSAULT RIFLE

<span id='postcolor'>

It's neither, it's classified "Battle Rifle" at 15 I can definately say I'm glad I'm not as stupid as you guys are at 20 (or around there).

[unholy chosen one 1]

kill is absolutely correct , at almost 4 feet long and 9 pounds, the m14 is a "battle rifle" or dmr(designated marksman rifle) its too long and too heavy for an assault rifle. however it was used as one before the m16 and ar15 were introduced but they didnt have anything else with the power and accuracy to choose from.but it still was never classified as an assault rifle. the m21 is even heavier at 10 pounds and thats if you use the stock scope. frisbee hit the nail on the head on "effective ranges of 600-800 meters"

i have fired them both on the sniper training course at ft. benning ga. in the actual field course the m21 with the scope could keep its accuracy up to 1000 meters( at three round bursts) as long as the wind was very light. if you adjusted the scope for distance and wind then you could push that range to 1500 meters but you would have to check your sighting wioth each round. the m14 was great up 800 meters but fell apart rapidly beyond that range. with no wind you could make 1000 meters but your fire had to be very delibrate. as far as this game is concerned the m21 seems close enough for a game.

[KillorLive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from E6Rackley on 8:37 am on Nov. 13, 2001

Just a note on the M-21 all it is not only acurate out to 150M please you can throw a rock that far, the M-16 is acurate to a point target out to 550m 800 to an area target. Now the M-21 is capable of reaching targets as far out as 1000m. Geeze 150m where did that come from? Oh let me guess your extent of military knowledge if from playing these games, lol.

<span id='postcolor'>

A skilled rifleman can hit targets past 1.2km with the M16, of course you can with the M21, he meant IN GAME. "throw a rock 150m" Impossible, 150m = 450 feet. The best quarter-backs throw 100 yards, roughly 100m.

The dude who posted about the 150m M21 was talking about IN GAME.

Now, just to settle this forum, and shutup idiots, I will do this:

The firearms that we are familiar with are called 'small arms,' generally. Anything under 20mm in caliber is technically a small arm, but obviously, there are some weapons that can be carried by a single person (a lightweight rifle) and some that require two or three people to effectively operate (M2 .50 caliber machine guns, for instance). The term 'light arm' is starting to come into popularity for referring to weapons carried by a single individual.

There are several main types of small arms described below. If you wish to see an example, click on the name of the weapon:

Pistol - A pistol is a hand-operated firearm having a chamber integral with or permanently aligned with the bore.

Revolver - A revolver is a hand-operated firearm with a revolving cylinder containing chambers for individual cartridges.

Shotgun - A shotgun is a (usually) smoothbore shoulder firearm that is capable of discharging more than one projectile down the barrel of the weapon with a single pull of the trigger.

Rifle - A rifle is a shoulder firearm which can discharge a bullet through a rifled barrel 16 inches or longer. The spiral parallel grooves in the bore impart spin in the projectile, providing stability and extended range. Can be automatic, semi-automatic, bolt action, etc.

Carbine - A carbine is a short rifle that has a barrel under 16 inches in length, and is typically used by cavalry, artillery, engineers or others who require a weapon for self-defense and emergencies. Accuracy and ballistics tend to be inferior to the full version of the rifles they are adapted from.

Assault Rifle - Assault rifles are capable of single shot or automatic fire using a short rifle cartridge providing accurate fire and more controllable recoil force than a standard rifle cartridge. By reducing the cartridge case and propellant, the cartridges weigh less and soldiers can carry more. These shorter rifles were developed in response to the recognition that most fire-fights take place at ranges under 400 yards. The small size of the assault rifle and its ability to fire at up to 800 rounds per minute has led to it being adopted by various forces as a replacement for the submachine gun. Most assault rifles are chambered for 5.56x45 NATO, 7.62x39, or 5.45x39.

Bullpup Rifle - A bullpup rifle is a rifle in which the action of the weapon is behind the trigger. This gives the advantage of making it possible to have a longer barrel in a more compact weapon, but gives the disadvantage of a (usually) sloppy trigger pull, and problems with left-handed users. However, the compact size and long barrel length may mean that more rifles of the future will use the bullpup layout.

Battle Rifle - A battle rifle is a semi-automatic or fully automatic rifle that fires a full-size rifle cartridge. The weapons were designed for use at ranges up to 600 yards. Although they were provided with a fully automatic setting, using this at any range except for the very closest would be a waste of ammunition - at 100 meters on fully automatic, the second shot would tend to pass about 15 meters above and to the right of a man-sized target. Battle rifles were therefore designed for a rifleman to take careful aimed fire at distant targets and eliminate the target with a single shot.

Machine Pistol - A machine pistol is a pistol that is capable of firing more than one shot per pull of the trigger. Machine pistols can be hand held, though they sometimes come with a stock to increase controllability.

Submachine Gun - A submachine gun is a lightweight one-man weapon capable of automatic fire, firing a low-powered pistol cartridge with limited range and accuracy.

Machine Gun - A machine gun is a firearm originally designed to fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger. Note that three round burst mode is technically fully automatic, since more than one shot is fired per trigger pull.

Light Machine Gun - A light machine gun is a (relatively) lightweight fully automatic weapon that is intended to be carried and operated by a single machine gunner during an assault. Light machine guns are capable of sustained automatic fire for longer periods of time than assault rifles, and can provide a base of fire for a rifle squad. Light machine guns are usually chambered for intermediate rifle rounds.

Medium Machine Gun - A medium machine gun is also sometimes known as a General Purpose Machine gun. These machine guns are usually chambered for full sized rifle rounds. If mounted with a bipod, GPMG's can serve the role of a base of fire for a rifle squad, like a LMG. However, due to the increased weight of a GPMG, mobility is greatly lessened. GPMG's can also be mounted on tripods for use in a stationary, defensive role, or on vehicles or helicopters to serve as accurate, long range, automatic fire.

Heavy Machine Guns - Heavy Machine guns are tripod mounted or mounted on vehicles or aircraft. These weapons are crew served, requiring two or three men to successfully keep the weapon running. These provide heavy support against lightly armored vehicles or other important targets.

Although many people call weapons such as the G3, FN-FAL and M14 assault rifles, they do not fill the definition - since they fire full-sized rifle cartridges and not intermediate ones, they fail that immediately. The G3 and such are also much better suited to long range combat, where their bullets can still make the kill, even after an assault rifle's bullet has lost much of its authority. Sometimes you will see a manufacturer call their semi-automatic 7.62x51 rifle a 'assault rifle,' but this is advertising and misleading. Calling a 7.62x51 rifle an assault rifle is like calling a full-sized pickup truck a compact truck, and then claiming that the full-size is the most powerful in its class. It is, but simply because you didn't define it properly.

Another issue that comes up frequently is what to call extremely compact assault rifles such as the G36C, AKS-74U, and CAR15. These are sometimes classed as submachine guns, and sometimes as assault rifles. I personally view them as compact assault rifles, since they fire rifle-sized cartridges and not pistol-sized cartridges. However, some people feel that the tactical use of a weapon counts in its definition, and if one believes this, then a G36C might be considered a submachine gun, since it is best used at the close range combat that SMG's are suited for.

[edit] forgot the link

This is from Foxi's CS (ish) FAQ and Realism guide.

http://counterstrikefox.freeservers.com/

(Edited by KillorLive at 4:50 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

[IGFs TopGun 1]

<a href="http://gamespot.com/gamespot/guides/pc/operation_flashpoint/p3_01.html

From" target="_blank">http://gamespot.com/gamespo....

From</a> the gamespot guide

M21--Sniper Rifle

Length: 44.1in/112cm

Weight: 11.25lbs/5.11kg

Barrel: 22in/559mm

Caliber: 7.62x5mm

Feed: 20-round detachable box magazine

Muzzle Velocity: 853m/s

Cyclic Rate: N/A

Description: The United States M21 sniper rifle is a modified M14 National Match rifle, with a high accuracy rating to approximately 900yds/822m. It has a 20-round detachable magazine and is gas-operated and air-cooled. Standard models include a 3x to 9x automatic ranging telescope (ART) sight.

Do we need a room monitor to keep the peace in here :rolleyes:

[KillorLive 0]

heh

Nice guide, to the point, realistic, if anything the info here is all required to answer questions, as thus the forum jackasses shouldn't be able to do anything but bite the bullet and accept our l337 URL locating sk1llz

[KillorLive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from BoonieRat on 12:38 pm on Nov. 15, 2001

Man this is one love thy neighbour site, or what?, who cares, there are so many re~hashed versions of such and such said rifle, that you're ALL probably bloody right;), if all you wanna do is show of your expertise of trivia, what are you doing it on a game site for?

Silencers on sniper rifles are anatheima(gosh!, not only did i spell it wromg, i DONT KNOW what it means!! :@!!, queue the argument:!),

they take alot of power out of the muzzle velo',makeing it only effective at closer range,especialy as you need a sub~sonic round with them, but i know what you mean, it would be kinda sexy,

<span id='postcolor'>

WTF is a silencer?

You mean suppressor

*note, I'm trying to be an #######*

[KillorLive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from unholy chosen one on 2:14 am on Nov. 24, 2001

the U.S. is becoming more and more concerned with stand off

combat tactics and weapons. thats why you are seing the landwarrior equipment. there are variations that now have

a liquid crystal display and small camera mounted to the m4

so all you have to do is put your rifle over/around a corner to see and kill your target.sooner or later they wont use human troops anymore they will use mechanical "soldiers"

controled by remote computers. and can you blame them being shot realy realy realy hurts. and the reason they dont train with full auto is they would rather be accurate then just fill the air with lead , thats what they have the 249 and m60 for. but i can assure you vietnam is the reason they altered the m16 to go burst and semi only , i worked for colt for a couple years and the entire story is their museum.

<span id='postcolor'>

*sorry for all the posts*

Anyway, when you get down to it, when one leader is desperate enough, there will never be zero need or cause for the average foot soldier with a rifle of some sort. Into the nitty gritty when ones "robot soldiers" run out you will always send in the grunts. Never has a piece of tech out-classify a human being, never will there.

[BoonieRat 0]

What as in 'Flash Suppressor'?, no i mean a S-i-l-e-n-c-e-r!, as in 'shush!, i'm hunting' wabbit!' '

You say toMATE -o, i say toMART-o, but every one here just sez FVCK OFF,that's bullshat!, (to each other, @ least every other post;) )

[nullset 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway, when you get down to it, when one leader is desperate enough, there will never be zero need or cause for the average foot soldier with a rifle of some sort. Into the nitty gritty when ones "robot soldiers" run out you will always send in the grunts. Never has a piece of tech out-classify a human being, never will there. <span id='postcolor'>

Uhhh, can someone translate this into English? Cuz I have NO IDEA what Mush-Mouth is saying

nil

[unholy chosen one 1]

i think he saying that human intelect will alway win over technology. what he didnt seem to understand was if one side has mechanized soldiers and the other has "grunts" with pea shooters , the pea shooters will just get stomped. its the old "im bringing my pocket knife to to a gunfight" theory.

if what he says was true the taliban would be kicking the crap outta the u.s. . that is a prime example of tech winning over human whatever he called it. ever hear of a daisy cutter its low tech but it sure beats an ak47 anyday.

i think at this point this thread was over three pages ago.

[TopCover 0]

Practice makes perfect!

It is possible, allthough it is not easy, to hit targets at 600 meters out with the m21. I am refering to ingame experiences and not to reallife scenarios.

Aside from that; it is perfectly ok to have an argument or disagreement on any subject mentioned in the forums, but please refrain from flaming and even insulting your fellow OFPgamer; it doesnt make you look cooler, quite the contrary

TopCover