Evolution and the fate of multiplayer

[dab_burns 0]

i spoke to some people who admit hacking in games or tk'rs and they were the people who aren't very competitive or dont see the compatition of gaming. i could never understand the motivation behind it

i think people need to be more vigilant and maybe mess with their fun

[Anunnaki 0]

1) BIS is still unable to make any cheat protection. Something was they trying to do like "signatures" and others, but at this time is nothing final out. But that is not so hard to do. They can implement some existing and working anti cheat protection from 3th part companys, like PUNKBUSTER, which is possible best anti cheat protection at this time.

2) BIS was lying about 60+ players on server. Yes, it is possible and playable maybe now afther latest patches, but they was not able make good MP mission for so many players. Many many old OFP players was playing BF2 MP game (which was arcade=not real). They was awaitng that when ARMA comes out, there would be sure min. one MP mission like was MP in BF2 with capturing the flags (with 30vs30 players). Whay they are unable to make mission like was MP in BF2 when that was most played MP(mission/type) in the whole world in history ?

3) Models/vehicles in ARMA are poor and primitive, much better was models in old OFP. In the old good OFP was possible to shoot (empty) tires with one bullet, or you was abble to shoot 1000 bullets to tires and rest of vehicle was still withouth damage. The same with windows (glass), lamps (sources of light), and others.

4) Finaly ARMA was and still is something like editor, not game for real players. BIS was producting this game like pre-paring for ARMA2. They was in 1/3 maybe 1/2 of final next game, when they was having problems with money. So what was ready in this time, that was produced out under name ARMA, and from this income work on "full final game=ARMA2" can continue. Thats all, "full final game=ARMA2" would by probaly with PUNKBUSTER anticheat protection and good MP mission for 60players (like in MP BF2 but on realistic base) and with more precise reacting models. In other case, many people which was in OFP , OFP res and ARMA comunity never spend time and many for next games from BIS.

[Junker 0]

1. Punkbuster is busted, cheaters have got around it.

2. How can u say that OFP is better than ArmA

3. 60 players is possible , a server managed to get 108 players on one server afew months ago.

4. Bis are not required to provide anti cheats, its an option.

Yes they did release a beta version but if they didnt we prolly wouldnt have ArmA and BIS would be finished.

As for this topic, its a waste of space.

To many people complaining about evolution, ITS A MISSION.

If ya dont like it play something else.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Can't understand why ppl say 'We need more COOP missions, not Evo' - Evolution is Master of all Coop-missions. Depends how you play it and with what kind of ppl.

[Anunnaki 0]

1. Punkbuster is busted, cheaters have got around it.

2. How can u say that OFP is better than ArmA

3. 60 players is possible , a server managed to get 108 players on one server afew months ago.

4. Bis are not required to provide anti cheats, its an option.

Yes they did release a beta version but if they didnt we prolly wouldnt have ArmA and BIS would be finished.

As for this topic, its a waste of space.

To many people complaining about evolution, ITS A MISSION.

If ya dont like it play something else.

1) Read more about punkbuster, every time when you start game, punkbuster is automaticaly thru internet updated. When hacker hack punkbuster anticheat system (or around it), in short time company update punkbaster (for every game independent sample/files or core punkbuster files for all games).

2) Where i wrotte that OFP is better than ARMA ? Are you blind ?

3) Where i wrotte that 60+ players are not possible in ARMA ? I know that this is possible and i was testing few maps with close so many players, but no one was possible to play (lags, discontinuing, crashes, error messages and many others + cheaters).

4) I dont understand what you mean with that Internet is full of cheaters. Withouth anti-cheat system is not able to run public servers. Withouth good mass PvP missions you are not able to have enought secure players ("frends") for good masive game on private server (24h/365d).

Your post is wasting of space, because you must read first, than think, than search more informations about this notes and afther that all you can writte some with good and value information for others.

[Junker 0]

Quote[/b] ]1) Read more about punkbuster, every time when you start game, punkbuster is automaticaly thru internet updated. When hacker hack punkbuster anticheat system (or around it), in short time company update punkbaster (for every game independent sample/files or core punkbuster files for all games).

Only the ones they know about.

Your Question =

Quote[/b] ]2) Where i wrotte that OFP is better than ARMA ? Are you blind ?

Answer =

Quote[/b] ]) Models/vehicles in ARMA are poor and primitive, much better was models in old OFP.

Quote[/b] ]3) Where i wrotte that 60+ players are not possible in ARMA ? I know that this is possible and i was testing few maps with close so many players, but no one was possible to play (lags, discontinuing, crashes, error messages and many others + cheaters).

There is a fine line between stable and unstable servers - clients, it could one thing it could be many, All i know is 30 players is more than enough for my standards

Quote[/b] ]4) I dont understand what you mean with that Internet is full of cheaters. Withouth anti-cheat system is not able to run public servers. Withouth good mass PvP missions you are not able to have enought secure players ("frends") for good masive game on private server (24h/365d).

What i mean it isnt by law that a company has to provide an anti-cheat for its software.

[deady 0]

The fact is, very few large scale coop missions come close to be as public server friendly as evo is. It has anti TK measures, vehicles respawn, objectives are clearly marked, and it doesn't need restarting every 10 minutes just because someone crashed a chopper.

[-Total- 0]

Let me start out by saying that I really enjoy Evolution, mainly for the reasons stated int he post directly above mine. At current, I have 3.1+ uploaded on our server.

What I dislike about Evo, is once you figure out the expectations of the AI in a city, then they are easy to defeat. I can defeat Evo with myself and two AI now.

Anything involving AI is going to become predictable over time. That's another draw to Evolution, one knows what to expect and there is a comfort of familiararity in that.

That's also the downfall of PvP multiplayer in ArmA....

I look at ArmA not in the casual pub mindset, but rather I look at the potential it has in forms of structured gameplay in matches and scrims. The potential is almost limitless expecially with new maps being released. I have made some AAS missions and, honestly, I don't know if my team could succeed at them. And these were made by both a mission editing novice and an ArmA novice. But, I am an FPS competitor for around 10 years. For me, it's where I find the most fun.

The allure and the ease of the coop missions in ArmA has killed any chance of organized PvP in this game and that is probably the greatest tragedy in ArmA. I see post after post complaining of bugs with the AI, but (aside from the need for an effective anti-cheat), there's very little discussion on the PvP side.

People are challenging. Whether they are part of your squad or on the opposing team. There's the allure for me. Maintaining cohesion in my team while trying to break down the same of the opposing team.

Think about it. You're squad of 8 is engaged in a match up against another organized squad. Your team has ground forces, some medium armor, and an AH-6 for helo cover. The other team has the Redfor equivalent. You just took out the enemy BMP, but you vehicles was damaged in the process. It's imperative you get your vehicle to the objective area in order to fortify it. You call to your teammates who now have to take the people designated as a supporting role to get the BMP back up and running by bringing out the repair and fuel truck (or maybe a FARP as in Evo). Either way, the coordination and management of team resources would be vital. Espcially since you just couldn't assign an AI to do it, while you kept fighting.

Unfortunately, I am a minority who looks at ArmA's PvP potential. Maybe if Killjoy made another Evolution centered around PvP, maybe people would give it a shot just because of the name Evolution....

I doubt that will ever happen though and ArmA will slowly fade away as more people bore of the AI wars.

[The_Captain 0]

I think one reason Evo is more popular than PvP in arma, is arma pvp usually needs 10+ players to be any fun at all, while one can start evo with one or two people to a server, start having fun, and wait for people to join in progress. Any popular PvP map is going to need to be fun with low numbers of players, like CTI was for OFP (esp with the AI enabled taking control of slots without players).

Arma's JIP makes people want to start their maps instantly, while in OFP people would usually wait for a full server before beginning the mission.

I could also be off base, but this is my gut feeling.

[Panzeh 0]

The trouble with large PvP where every unit on the map(or even every combat unit on the map) is human is that you need tons of people to do it on scenarios with any scope. I don't think ArmA is all that good at being a shoebox game and it shouldn't really even try to cater to 8v8 shoebox wars.

The future of PvP in ArmA is, in my opinion, going to come when the command engine gets the bugs out. Now, understandably it's not going to be a perfect solution but giving each player say a squad or a platoon to command immediately allows for a much larger scenario and a lot more room for individual achievement.

[masterfatman 0]

I've only been playing ArmA for several weeks and I was initially excited about the MP experience this game offers. Like all games though no matter how good they are it really depends on your fellow players to make them enjoyable.

To date I have experienced a mix bag of really helpful players, jerks and yes I too have seen the base destroying hack in evolution probably 6 out of the 30 times I've played!

One of the things that bugs me about evo is that you can spend a lot of time just waiiting around to get a lift to the action. I guess a lot of the guys who play this regular can get bored transporting people to and fro and would rather go on a bombing run but i see this as a weakness in the system. Let someone else have a go at being a pilot. We dont all have hours and hours to play this game each night and climb up the ranks to get these privileges!

You can spend an hour just trying to get up the ladder only to have the admin or whomever runs the map say lets start over and we all go back to the start - ok for them cause they have been on for hours already but if you only have one or two hours at a time you are building for nothing and the whole thing is a little dissapointing. Still I think its a great game with huge potential.

Hi just my two cents,

Agree 100%.  Still playing AA and BF2 from time to time and now been playing ArmA for a week or so I do se a difference in the MP world of those games/simulations.

I bought ArmA to experience the large maps witch I missed in the other games/simulations and this game really offers that (never had the chance to play Ofp) and at the same time I se a huge mode community with talent trying to make the game/simulation a joy for all of us (thx guy`s and girls).

Evolution:

As I understand it, Evo is the number one mode for MP.  Evo is still enjoyable to play, but I do mis the small islands around it to get the full package (it`s a sea, air and land map), but never been in on any boat action/assault yet.

MP experience:

I belive that we all have experienced a MP session with really helpfull players (thx guy`s), rambo types (non teamsplayers are in all type of games), TKèrs and other typs of players we all would like to transfere to the moon .

It`s correct that it depends on our fellow players to make MP sessions enjoyable, but aslong admins dont have a tool/tools to kick out cheaters and hackers, there are a big chance that people will loose the joy of MP.

Do not know if all good teamplay servers are passworded today because it`s the only way to protection against cheaters and hacks as I se it, but I do understand if they are.

Waiting in bas for a lift is something we all have to get used to.

No what really can piss one off is when a chopper lift of only with 2-3 players or in the beginning of a game all jumps in a car or truck on their own and drives off.  Hey this is a tactical game/simulation not a one man show going for points so you can fly a chopper get it .

The rank idea in Evo is quit good - mission first.

Do understand that once a while some would like to fly a jet or chopper in MP and dont have the time to gain rank.  My highest rank on jolt server ever was LT, but at the sametime I dont care about my rank - for me it`s about teamplay no more, no less (a situation that easy could occure regarding piloting is all are many in the air and few on the ground:D).

A question to all in this topic.  Why do you not use the voice over ip given to you in this game? .

One member came in on a very important problem in ArmA, PvP MP and a good one I may say.

Personal I think that if BIS added some tooles to the game to fight cheaters and hackers I think we in time will se more servers who offers PvP type games.

This is a game with a huge potential and I want to say to all you talentet people, who provide us with modes - do not stop because you have not reached your highest level in mode creation yet.  Thx guy`s and girls.

Omg this is a interesting topic and always something to add.

Over and out.

A.k.a Pingo

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

If the AI bugs were ironed out, i.e. pathfinding, and squad-subteam formation and movement, then PvP with commanded AI squads would be realisable. Problem is that this is not the case - some of the large AAS maps on the 16AAB server, especially the 'AAS NorthSahrani' map would be bloody brilliant if the players could be a commander each, and have a squad to command. But sadly under testing the prototype map for this on that HAD AI showed conclusively that they can't even navigate over the bridge south of Obregan, and the player was just left bugred as far as their advance was concerned. The same goes for navigation and command-following through cities, especially once a few wrecked vehicles litter the roads.

BIS have already stated that ArmA2 will fix the pathfinding by increasing the resolution down to centimetre scale - I would beg/ask that if the possibility exists to increase the resolution and fine-tune the pathfinding in ArmA1 then this be done in an upcoming patch for this version of ArmA - it would re-invigorate a failing multiplayer world I believe, even for PvP and RTS/CTI type maps. At present the useability of the AI completely preclude any serious use of the AI for these games.

That "AAS North Sahrani" map would be GREAT if the AI could be used under player's control - but sadly it has been made for humans only now - and is unuseable unless enough players are on the server. This has only happened once now, and then some guy came on and crashed the server. Felt like crying at that point.

[GASDORF 0]

i wont be buying arma 2 with all the hackers messing up the severs in the first one, i dont know how they can say arma 2 will be better?   i personally think the whole public sever pc games will die out, because of the cheaters and hackers.

i am going back to single player games....lotta wasted nights 2 hours  getting rank to fly a lb only to hacked up and some admin kicking you off for no resion???  like the other guy i never quite got my moneys worth NOT one whole coop game played!!!  very annoying when admin kicks for no resion???  

i

[M9ACE 0]

A question to all in this topic.  Why do you not use the voice over ip given to you in this game? .

Because it can be abused easily and it is an additional load on the server.  By using a third party program like Teamspeak or Ventrilo, you can off load that task to another server in order to maximize the performance as well as the upload bandwidth that is available to the game server.