Carry two weapons ?

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Same issue as for bugs (there is no difference between a TT and a CR except that you talk more about the future and design in a CR)

You can not manage all the requests in a wiki.

[stingfish74 0]

i agree with the original request. it was done in GhostRecon PC, and again it was done in legacy OFP. Ability to carry 2 primary weaps such as a sniper/scout would carry a MP5SD and a sniper rifle.

as for the animations, i would like to see the primary weapon straped ACROSS the chest or back instead of a verticle position. look at the primary weapon position on a passenger on the dirtbikes. something like that. to me, that is pretty cool looking and a bit realistic.

[frederf 0]

I am reminded of a small problem with the WGL rucksack system.

Crew served weapon pieces were awkwardly linked to the rucksacks. A mortar tube went on the "launcher slot" and so did the rucksack. So to carry both the WGL team made a combined rucksack/mortar tube and then you dropped the tube they'd remove the combined model and give you a new plain rucksack. But of course when you wanted to pack up the mortar tube/rucksack again you had to drop the plain rucksack.

All in all the effect was to leave a litter trail of plain rucksacks every time you took the complex rucksack on and off. So while I'm dreaming I figure I'd modify my equipment setup request to allow a secondary external backpack-like piece of equipment.

1. Primary Weapon Slot w/ Internal Storage

Weapon Types: Two-Handed

Animation states: High-ready, Low-ready, Slung in front of chest, Shouldered

Notes: "Put away" positions are only an option if you're in the low-ready. Internal storage is enough to fully load the weapon. If the secondary weapon is anywhere but shouldered, then the primary weapon must be shouldered.

2. Secondary Weapon Slot w/ Internal Storage

Weapon Types: Two-Handed

Animation states: High-ready, Low-ready, Slung in front of chest, Shouldered

Notes: "Put away" positions are only an option if you're in the low-ready. Internal storage is enough to fully load the weapon. If the primary weapon is anywhere but shouldered, then the secondary weapon must be shouldered.

3. Pistol Weapon Slot w/ Internal Storage

Weapon Types: One-Handed

Animation states: High-ready, Low-ready, Holstered

Notes: "Put away" positions are only an option if you're in the low-ready. Internal storage is enough to fully load the weapon.

4. Backpack Weapon Slot w/ Internal Storage

Weapon Types: Backpack

Animation states: <none>

Notes: Not selectable as a weapon via action menu to keep action menu clear. Other weapons cannot use from the backpack at all (or maybe very slowly? Hmmm.)

5. Back Weapon Slot w/ Internal Storage

Equipment Types: Special Bulky Equipment

Animation states: On your back, In your hands.

Notes: Items such as a mortar tube or M2 tripod go here. When not selected is on your back next to your backpack (if any). When selected is in your hands and firing attempts to assemble multi-part static weapon with existing components (or puts it on ground if its the first piece). The actual model of the equipment is shown either on your back or in your hands.

6. Pouches/Harness Magazine Storage

Equipment Types: All Equipment

Animation states: <none>

Notes: Static pouches on your chest accept limited gear in slots. Other weapons can readily access equipment stored here.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

The rucksack system was done with a more limited design approach as it was actually used later.

And it tried to come around engine limitations. Especially with the use of the action menu it was almost impossible to quickly grab a LAW out of the backpack in time when a tank was heading to you.

Due to those limitations I ask for some generic things in the engine to support a very generic and flexible inventory system.

[frederf 0]

Notice this cheery individual has:

M4AIM with 11 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M136 (1 mag in weapon)

NVGs

M9 Pistol with 3 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M67 grenades x 4

Rucksack (plus lots of crap inside it)

M2 Tripod

Currently the soldier's load is in the yellow zone meaning he can sprint but gets tired quickly. If he dropped his rucksack he'd be able to lower his load rating and move about more rapidly on the battlefield.

Note: I'm not quite such what to do with the night vision goggles. It doesn't make sense for them to be in the backpack if they're being used, but it doesn't make sense for them to be on the harness either. I suppose a "clipped to helmet" slot would be ideal but I don't really go overboard with the slots.

[max power 21]

The 'special' slots that arma have already work well for that... the NVG and stuff, I mean.

[frederf 0]

The 'special' slots that arma have already work well for that... the NVG and stuff, I mean.

Yes, they do. How would you suggest I integrate such a place in the above scheme?

[Banzai! 0]

Notice this cheery individual has:

M4AIM with 11 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M136 (1 mag in weapon)

NVGs

M9 Pistol with 3 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M67 grenades x 4

Rucksack (plus lots of crap inside it)

M2 Tripod

Currently the soldier's load is in the yellow zone meaning he can sprint but gets tired quickly. If he dropped his rucksack he'd be able to lower his load rating and move about more rapidly on the battlefield.

Note: I'm not quite such what to do with the night vision goggles. It doesn't make sense for them to be in the backpack if they're being used, but it doesn't make sense for them to be on the harness either. I suppose a "clipped to helmet" slot would be ideal but I don't really go overboard with the slots.

Woah this man is only in the yellow zone?

[Average Joe 0]

Nice picture Fred, would be nice to see

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

@ Banzai - dont quote immages mate, you better remove it before a mod wakes up.

Did anyone notice that that guy has 40x 100rnd 7.62mm ammoboxes in his rucksack + some other stuff ?

Well... I just requested a simple script which would make playing a lot more fun... and then again it turned out so something ... ehh .. else

[frederf 0]

Lol yeah I just pasted that out of a normal US Ammo Box for effect. Obviously nobody should be carrying 40x M240B Mags. I also should have put the bar visually outside of the backpack inventory, otherwise people might think the bar only pertains to the backpack instead of the whole soldier.

@SOBR. Yeah you're not supposed to quote images. Lord knows why; it's not like it takes longer to download, increases server strain, or anything.

The reason I go off on this complex tangent is because that's kind of the scale of change that has to happen to get a Rifle/SMG secondary weapon. Right now secondary weapons HAVE to be launcher class and HAVE to use the launcher animation and you HAVE to assume the crouched stance and you HAVE to be stopped while looking through the optics.

You can jury rig having rifle class weapons have more mobility and a different animation probably. I come from the "let's not fix it bit by bit" ideology where fixing it once properly will take less time and effort than 100 tiny fixes that aren't as satisfactory.

There's even limitations to what I propose. What if you wanted to have an airborne unit that had 2,3,4 etc droppable packs? Or someone be able to carry aqualungs and a backpack and something else on their back? I think what I suggest should cover 95% of possibilities where the BIS inventory covered 85% of possibilities. 100%? That's some pretty general code.

[twisted 128]

weight considerations should be included and have much bigger repercussions. to the point of not being able to run at all if you are carrying too much and taking much longer to do things like go prone or stand up. then that'd balance itself.

[Rustman 0]

Notice this cheery individual has:

M4AIM with 11 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M136 (1 mag in weapon)

NVGs

M9 Pistol with 3 mags (1 of which is in the weapon)

M67 grenades x 4

Rucksack (plus lots of crap inside it)

M2 Tripod

Currently the soldier's load is in the yellow zone meaning he can sprint but gets tired quickly. If he dropped his rucksack he'd be able to lower his load rating and move about more rapidly on the battlefield.

Note: I'm not quite such what to do with the night vision goggles. It doesn't make sense for them to be in the backpack if they're being used, but it doesn't make sense for them to be on the harness either. I suppose a "clipped to helmet" slot would be ideal but I don't really go overboard with the slots.

Yellow? That guy red as hell. That tripod alone is almost 50 lbs...that guy's carrying well over 100 pounds of equipment. I'd say that as a weight estimation, and taking into account that this is a measurement of one's ability to run..not walk..but to realistically run without injuring self. Green should max out at around 40. Yellow at around 60 or 70. Anything higher is red.

[max power 21]

The 'special' slots that arma have already work well for that... the NVG and stuff, I mean.

Yes, they do. How would you suggest I integrate such a place in the above scheme?

Why would I use that scheme if it doesn't work? You would obviously have to rework your scheme, wouldn't you? The special slots seem to be a glaring omission in your scheme.

[frederf 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why would I use that scheme if it doesn't work? You would obviously have to rework your scheme, wouldn't you? The special slots seem to be a glaring omission in your scheme.

Huh? I'm asking for advice on how to rework my proposed scheme. Yes, I would consider it an oversight.

My idea is that things that take up body harness slots should be things that would actually compete for space in a soldier's pouches. Grenades, mags, binoculars, pistol mags, etc... but not really NVGoggles. So I guess a "head" slot?

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]Why would I use that scheme if it doesn't work? You would obviously have to rework your scheme, wouldn't you? The special slots seem to be a glaring omission in your scheme.

Huh? I'm asking for advice on how to rework my proposed scheme. Yes, I would consider it an oversight.

My idea is that things that take up body harness slots should be things that would actually compete for space in a soldier's pouches. Grenades, mags, binoculars, pistol mags, etc... but not really NVGoggles. So I guess a "head" slot?

Do they even need a special slot? Since they don't compete with anything for space I don't see a need for a special slot. Just an icon somewhere that shows that you have NVGoggles.

[4 IN 1 0]

someone tell me that he usually put it at place that he can reach without big problem, and only attach it to his helmet when its needed

[max power 21]

Quote[/b] ]Why would I use that scheme if it doesn't work? You would obviously have to rework your scheme, wouldn't you? The special slots seem to be a glaring omission in your scheme.

Huh? I'm asking for advice on how to rework my proposed scheme. Yes, I would consider it an oversight.

My idea is that things that take up body harness slots should be things that would actually compete for space in a soldier's pouches. Grenades, mags, binoculars, pistol mags, etc... but not really NVGoggles. So I guess a "head" slot?

Oh, I thought you were being prickly.

I think that a special slot would be more flexible than a head slot.

[kid 0]

Frederf, you are THE MAN!

I love and adore the idea of a proper inventory system, and your image really gets my imagination going.

The in-weapon slots are a very good idea, and overall it's well thought out.

The "special" slots should (as in vanilla) be apart from the rest, in my opinion. It just doesn't seem right that they replace magazine slots. It's already strange enough that high-tech military units use old, clunky roof binoculars instead of prism or hybrid binoculars or even prism monoculars

quick question:

can RPGs be carried in pouches at all, or would they all be in the backpack?

a few things to think about:

-half slots.

a pistol mag or a 30mm grenade doesn't take as much space as an M4 mag.

-maybe a tripod OR a backpack.

I've never tried, it must be said, but I don't see where one would find space for a weapon on the right shoulder, a weapon on the left shoulder, a packpack... and... something alongside the backpack? or maybe the tripod can be a secondary weapon, slung over the left shoulder permanently.

-no "levelled" encumbrance

I hate the idea of "green, yelow, red" as if someone could run at speed X with 10kg but would break down and snap a shin bone with 10.01kg. Speed should not be pre set, but calculated according to load.

-bullet amounts shown in the inventory (not sure if this is feasible)

I try to make a habit of reloading before the dead man's click, so I'm often left with mags that have few bullets in them. I've gotten around it somewhat by getting to cover and then squeezing off the last few rounds to get rid of the mag, but it's bloody irritating, and I don't know what to do with mags that have 15 rounds left in them. A number to show how many bullets are in each mag would go a long way, as would a function to rearrange the bullets in all the mags to fill up the unused ones.

It could also be implemented as "loose bullets" in the backpack or a special slot. Each mag would have an "empty" function and a "replenish" function. This would also be a cheaper way to carry more ammo, in bullets instead of extra mags. I do realise this is somewhat beyond the scope of this discussion, but I just thought I'd mention it

-more rigid weight criteria

I know the thousands of bullets in the backpack are not meant to be factual to the "yellow" phase, but in general I think people are expecting soldiers to carry too much. We can't expect the engine to represent muscle fatigue and mental weariness, so in effect we'd have people carrying 30kg of gear, sprinting across the landscape and after a 30 second stop be as refreshed as a newborn babe. That's just not right.

Perhaps an idea would be to allow only limited movement with a backpack, and expect the soldier to drop it and the tripod/special item before entering combat.

-no secondary sniper rifle

I know it does happen in RL, but I hate the idea of being able to run around with a sniper rifle, an anti tank and an automatic pistol. Faaaar too rambo. I say let the secondary slot be launcher only. This would also mean no rewriting of animation code to expect a normal weapon in slot 2.

[Balschoiw 0]

To keep it short.

No second rifle for simple reality reasons. You will hardly been given a second rifle in real life and running around with 2 weapons loose at your body will make you look funny but will not make you more effective in combat.

As much as I would appreciate a weight based inventory system, I do not think that we will see it from BIS anytime for Arma. It would take a lot to change the current one to the desired one. Not just some code here and there but infact a total redesign of the inventory compartement and the weapons themselves.

It´s part of the general dissapointment about Arma that things like that simply didn´t make it into the game and are very unlikely to be implemented for workload reasons and other reasons. I have my solid doubts about the suggestions-section for Game2. A lot of reasonable things had been suggested for Arma , people invested a lot of time to elaborate new concepts and features for Arma and in the end almost nothing has made it into the final apart from the tiring old bugs and some shiny gfx.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Quote[/b] ]

people invested a lot of time to elaborate new concepts and features for Arma and in the end almost nothing has made it into the final apart from the tiring old bugs and some shiny gfx.

Hugh? You are not Balschoiw, he would never say that! Catch him! He killed the real Balschoiw and lives now with his ID

[Balschoiw 0]

Well sorry for not feeding your stereotypes. If you´d know where I´m coming from you´d know that I have actually been one of the first to critizise Arma when playtesting it for a magazine.

Sorry I don´t fit your fanboy cliche.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

No problem, I am happy with that.

Back to topic:

There are some parts in the configs (backpack thingy) really suggesting that there is already something in ArmA which is maybe not used actually.

anybody fiddled around with that?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

-bullet amounts shown in the inventory (not sure if this is feasible)

But that's just unrealistic, and the whole point of this discussion is to have a more realistic inventory. Not knowing how much ammo you have is part of the experience.

[kid 0]

yes, but in RL you could check to see which mag has bullets, it would just take time.

To be clear, I'm talking about a scenario where (for example) you pick up an RPG from a fallen OPFOR. Which M4 mag do you part with? You know that 2 of them have fewer rounds, and one has far fewer, but which is it? As far as I know, there's no way to tell, is there?