Carry two weapons ?

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

Hi everyone!

A soldier has two slots for weapons. First is for the main arm and the second for some kind rocket launchers or radio equipment.

Now it would be nice if the soldier himself could determine what he would like to carry.... For example a Sniper would take a submachinegun as second arm strapped to his back instead of an RPG for CQB.

It sounds simple to me. Can this be realized, do we need a script for it, what do you think ?

[4 IN 1 0]

sounds fair, orthrough it is very possible to done it with script, it would be better to have a build in system, oh would be better to have a "real" back pack system which didnt need to take up your normal slots too

[frederf 0]

I'd like to steal this thread for a second.

Right now we have primary weapon slot, sidearm weapon slot and secondary weapon slot.

Primary weapon uses the primary storage for ammo (and some sidearm storage.. weird) and secondary weapon uses primary storage. Sidearm weapon uses sidearm storage. The problem with all this is it has nothing to do with how a real soldier carries equipment.

It's been time to rethink the way equipment is held by the soldier for about.. oh 5 years now. Now is as good as time as any.

=======

SOLDIER EQUIPMENT

=======

WEAPONS:

1. In-Hands Weapon Slot: The gun in your hands. You can sling it over your right shoulder after you've put it at the low ready.

2. Left Shoulder Weapon Slot: The gun over your left shoulder. Launcher or submachine gun or another rifle, whatever. Anything that can be a primary weapon can be a secondary one.

3. Hip Weapon Slot: The gun in your holster. Obviously anything that would fit. You can holster your weapon.

4. Backpack "Weapon" Slot: The backpack centered on your back.

EQUIPMENT:

A. Harness Pouches Slots: Anything you want to put on your harness goes here. That includes magazines, binoculars, grenades, 40mm rounds, batteries, pistol mags. From your harness you can access things quickly.

B. Weapon Interior Slots (one per weapon held): If you have a launcher on you that carries a round inside it then this slot will appear and you can only put the launcher round inside it. This prevents a loaded weapon from taking up a harness slot. Same thing with rifles and sidearms too. You can unload a weapon simply by moving the magazine out of the interior of the weapon. This space only exists when you have a weapon and the size of the space is only big enough to hold the magazine for that weapon. If you drop the weapon the item in the interior slot stays with the weapon.

C. Backpack Slots: Anything you wish to carry but don't have to access immediately can go in your backpack. Backpack accepts all equipment and even weapons. You cannot use anything from your backpack unless you move it from the backpack to some other part of your body. If you drop your backpack weapon the contents of these slots stays with the backpack weapon.

MOVEABILITY:

Large numbers of items should display in ammobox-like lists, small number in the traditional grid. Movement of objects should be drag/drop directly from slot to slot.

LOADING:

Equipment should have volume, weight or both factors. Performance of the soldier (speed, stamina, quickness of movement) should be affected by load.

===============

In summary you can hold weapons in 4 places:

1. Hands / right shoulder (only rifle/launcher type),

2. hands / left shoulder (only rifle/launcher type),

3. hands / pistol holster (only sidearm type), and

4. center of back (only backpack type).

You can hold equipment in 3 classes of places:

1. Inside the weapon (only certain items can go in certain weapons)

2. On your harness for use.

3. in your backpack for storage.

You can move equipment around your gear page with simple drag/drop.

Your soldier's performance in moving is affected by what he carries.

======

======

Thank you that is all.

[4 IN 1 0]

a long list you have there

just a little addon, backpack should be secoundary weapon, so you cant carry 2 working rifle while still having a bigass pack at your back(however, you might be able to put your extar rifle into the backpack)

for AT/ MG gunners, you want other ppl in your group to help carry your extra gear anyway

[Freshman 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

[Rustman 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

If we are talking realistic, then it's unrealistic to have AT-4 rounds at all...the AT-4 is a one shot disposable weapon system. You can't reload it. In order to have 2 rockets you would have to carry 2 full AT-4 tubes.

If they wanted a reloadable weapon system to balance out the RPG, they should have gone with the SMAW. You can carry rounds for that.

[4 IN 1 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

If we are talking realistic, then it's unrealistic to have AT-4 rounds at all...the AT-4 is a one shot disposable weapon system.  You can't reload it.  In order to have 2 rockets you would have to carry 2 full AT-4 tubes.  

If they wanted a reloadable weapon system to balance out the RPG, they should have gone with the SMAW.  You can carry rounds for that.

so it goes back to the USMC vs ARMY thing, GOD NO!

[Freshman 0]

I agree.

The SMAW would have been the right alternative.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

There are very old requests towards BI to enable a more generic cargo system based on weight and volume. Each item would need 3 basic para in the config: weight, state of aggregation and a simplified volume/shape indication. Each cargo/storage would have a volume limitation, vehicles and huimans also a weight limitation.

Based on state of aggregation the general transport/storage ability can be determined. 20.000kg fuel (can be simpliefied to 20.000 liter even if not correct) would have the state of aggregation "fluid" and hence could not be transported in a normal truck. If those 20.000 kg fuel already in a shelter/tank, this cargo container is then of course state of aggregation "solid" and can be transported with a normal truck (if this truck can carry 20 tons).

You see, with a few parameter you can do almost everything, just the volume is tricky since 0.5 cube meter could be a long barrel or a cube. Maybe it is better to replace volume by L/D/W and play a virtual tetris in the cargo volume to place it in the most efficient way.

For fluids I would asume the volume consumption of water or we need to add an factor for volume at 20 degree celsius.

Cargo examples:

Human:

max weight: 60 kg (speed would decrease with weight)

max L/D/W: dunno

state of aggregation: solid

Tanker:

max weight: 40.000 kg (speed would decrease with weight)

max L/D/W: N/A

state of aggregation: fluid

House:

max weight: 1.000.000 kg

max L/D/W: 10m/4m/35m

state of aggregation: solid

barrel:

max weight: 50 kg

max L/D/W: N/A

state of aggregation: fluid, gas

[Rustman 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

If we are talking realistic, then it's unrealistic to have AT-4 rounds at all...the AT-4 is a one shot disposable weapon system. You can't reload it. In order to have 2 rockets you would have to carry 2 full AT-4 tubes.

If they wanted a reloadable weapon system to balance out the RPG, they should have gone with the SMAW. You can carry rounds for that.

so it goes back to the USMC vs ARMY thing, GOD NO!

Truthfully, I don't mind the whole mix and match equipment thing. Now, the uniform I'm more of a stickler on. Darnit, I'm a soldier...my in game representation should not look like a marine. I'm getting off on a tangent here a little bit...back on track..part of the reason I don't mind is because it happens in real life. My Army Infantry company was attached to 1st MEF for our combat deployment in Iraq. Our supply lines immediately changed from Army supply system to naval logistics for an entire year and we got issued and operated Marine equipment to include SMAW's and 7 ton trucks (which we've come to the conclusion is a far superior vehicle to the Army LMTV, BTW). It happens. If that wasn't weird enough to use their equipment, a couple of months into it they expanded our mission set, so to facilitate this, they actually reinforced us with Marines. We were an integrated Marine/Army "Marmy" unit all the way down to the fire team level. Army Jr. NCO's leading Marine riflemen in combat, and vice-verse. Modern warfare causes crazy stuff like that to happen.

[Heatseeker 0]

People always come up with something to complain about... bah!

Ok, you could carry two rifles because its realistic or lets just say possible since its not comon practice for obvious reasons, so someone would be able to carry the M240 MG and the M107 50. cal sniper... Wait, thats not good now is it?

Then the damn weight system, god is that old talk... if BIS did that someone would complain that its not realistic because there are not enough pouches and pockets to carry all the gear.

How about sticking to realistic numbers? IRL a soldier carries x number of magazines, x number of nades, etc... its fine the way it is... really.

[4 IN 1 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

If we are talking realistic, then it's unrealistic to have AT-4 rounds at all...the AT-4 is a one shot disposable weapon system.  You can't reload it.  In order to have 2 rockets you would have to carry 2 full AT-4 tubes.  

If they wanted a reloadable weapon system to balance out the RPG, they should have gone with the SMAW.  You can carry rounds for that.

so it goes back to the USMC vs ARMY thing, GOD NO!

Truthfully, I don't mind the whole mix and match equipment thing.  Now, the uniform I'm more of a stickler on.  Darnit, I'm a soldier...my in game representation should not look like a marine.  I'm getting off on a tangent here a little bit...back on track..part of the reason I don't mind is because it happens in real life.  My Army Infantry company was attached to 1st MEF for our combat deployment in Iraq.  Our supply lines immediately changed from Army supply system to naval logistics for an entire year and we got issued and operated Marine equipment to include SMAW's and 7 ton trucks (which we've come to the conclusion is a far superior vehicle to the Army LMTV, BTW).  It happens.  If that wasn't weird enough to use their equipment, a couple of months into it they expanded our mission set, so to facilitate this, they actually reinforced us with Marines.  We were an integrated Marine/Army "Marmy" unit all the way down to the fire team level.  Army Jr. NCO's leading Marine riflemen in combat, and vice-verse.  Modern warfare causes crazy stuff like that to happen.

so right now there really is some "max and match" going on in Iraq rgr? atless thats what i hear of, thanks for the confirm anyway

p.s. just a quick question not to get too OT: is it hard to work with each other? i mean......Army and Navy sub branch working together.....

[Rustman 0]

I think the whole carrying system whould be reworked.

Taking two rifles should be possible just like throwing magazines and stuff like this.

One thing that bothers me is that you can't put magazines in the weapon. Its unrealistic if you still have an AT4 round in your inventory even if it should be in the tube.

If we are talking realistic, then it's unrealistic to have AT-4 rounds at all...the AT-4 is a one shot disposable weapon system. You can't reload it. In order to have 2 rockets you would have to carry 2 full AT-4 tubes.

If they wanted a reloadable weapon system to balance out the RPG, they should have gone with the SMAW. You can carry rounds for that.

so it goes back to the USMC vs ARMY thing, GOD NO!

Truthfully, I don't mind the whole mix and match equipment thing. Now, the uniform I'm more of a stickler on. Darnit, I'm a soldier...my in game representation should not look like a marine. I'm getting off on a tangent here a little bit...back on track..part of the reason I don't mind is because it happens in real life. My Army Infantry company was attached to 1st MEF for our combat deployment in Iraq. Our supply lines immediately changed from Army supply system to naval logistics for an entire year and we got issued and operated Marine equipment to include SMAW's and 7 ton trucks (which we've come to the conclusion is a far superior vehicle to the Army LMTV, BTW). It happens. If that wasn't weird enough to use their equipment, a couple of months into it they expanded our mission set, so to facilitate this, they actually reinforced us with Marines. We were an integrated Marine/Army "Marmy" unit all the way down to the fire team level. Army Jr. NCO's leading Marine riflemen in combat, and vice-verse. Modern warfare causes crazy stuff like that to happen.

so right now there really is some "max and match" going on in Iraq rgr? atless thats what i hear of, thanks for the confirm anyway

p.s. just a quick question not to get too OT: is it hard to work with each other? i mean......Army and Navy sub branch working together.....

It does happen. I wouldn't say it's common...most retain their unit integrity...but it also isn't completely unheard of. Most of the time it's something along the lines of what happened with our company...there was a last minute change in the needs of the theater and several units got unexpectedly shuffled around. Before you know it...oops...there's a shortage of manpower on a major base so some essential mission there isn't getting accomplished. Grab the first available bodies you can find and throw them into those positions as fast as you can..."Minnesota National Guardsmen, welcome to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force". It's as simple as that.

To complecate things even further, we were specifically attached to a Marine Headquarters Group to pull gate and tower duty for 12 months (yuck)...however...the Marine Colonel (who I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for) in charge of the group was a career Force Recon Marine who was recently promoted into that low speed unit. He arrived and immediately realized that, National Guard or not, he was just handed a full Mechanized Infantry company with M2A2 Bradley's. The conversation went something like this:

"Hells no...I want every available non-combat personnel to relieve these guys from tower and gate duty RIGHT NOW. You Infantrymen...here's an extra platoon of Marine riflemen...now load up your Brads and go kill stuff." (Yay)

Anyway..long story short that's how you end up with integrated combat units and Army soldiers running around with SMAW's.

As far as working together, there was, obviously, a little wariness about the whole thing in the beginning...neither us nor them knew what to expect....after a month though we all ended up becoming really close friends. As a working arrangement we ALL loved it. We (Army) enjoyed it because it got us away from our organic battalion and brigade leadership (which we all considered idiots), we were carrying out preferred missions (focused raids, ambushes, joint missions with Marine Recon, Navy SEALs, etc...you name it, we did it), and the Marine leadership over us gave us a lot of latitude on how we carried out our operations. Being attached to us ended up becoming the assignment of choice for the Marines too...1) they were guaranteed to see combat, which for someone who isn't in a position to see much, like from a communication battalion, is a huge draw and 2) we were, by far, way more laid back than a lot of the senior leadership they normally operated under. When the I MEF was getting ready to go home, every Marine who was attached to us at the time volunteered to extend an extra 3 months in country if they could stay attached to us for the remainder of our tour.

[bravo 6 0]

I think that would need new animations in the game..

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

arma's loadout system is antique. but then again it's just ofp 1.5...what did we expect?

[4 IN 1 0]

thats very interesting info m8

back on topic

shouldnt that be enought just to have a reasonable number of slots? yes weight system might be realistic but all we ask for is a more reasonable load out or just an extra rifle and its ammo in a small bag

[Rustman 0]

thats very interesting info m8

back on topic

shouldnt that be enought just to have a reasonable number of slots? yes weight system might be realistic but all we ask for is a more reasonable load out or just an extra rifle and its ammo in a small bag

Well...on topic, in my opinion, a combat load of ammo should be a given for the primary weapon. If you take an M-4, it automatically comes with 7 30rnd magazines and a couple of grenades; an M249 with 4 200rnd drums and a couple of grenades....your primary weapon and primary ammo supply shouldn't even factor into the inventory system. Your "inventory" should consist of only extra equipment you want to bring over and above your combat load. An AT-4 or two, extra ammo, more frags, a secondary weapon, any other special equipment....In my mind it should be weight based. Simply put, a soldier will always find ways of carrying extra gear. Asking a troop, in real life, to figure out how to strap down, say, 5 AT-4's to be carried is no challenge at all...troops are quite resourceful...the challenge is gonna be finding someone who will actually willingly carry those 5 AT-4's because that stuff is heavy and soldiers don't want to be weighed down when they are walking someplace. From personal experience I can tell you it sucks (try dismounting TOW missile sometime..with tripod and T&E it is close to a 700lb weapon system...we had to utilize an entire 9 man squad to move one 2 miles when we did it). In my mind, if a player wants to take 6 extra grenades, 13 extra magazines, and 3 AT-4's into combat he should be allowed to do so, because, frankly, an average soldier CAN actually carry that much. He should also, however, take severe penalties to stamina, speed, and weapon stability.

I will also recommend an extra feature if that were implemented...a hotkey to "drop rucks". If you have a ruck and take contact your number one priority after finding cover is to lose the extra weight. That's just one of the reasons why all packs have quick release snaps. Take contact, hit the hot key, and you immediately dump all extra gear above your primary combat load onto the ground. Then if you want you can pick through it to take just that extra AT-4 to pop the BRDM that is lighting up your squad.

Possible to do..I don't know...probably not....whatever.

[4 IN 1 0]

i think i understand your points, infact thats i was hoping that one day it is possible, stalker for example have it work fairly well, but then, right now anything that works no matter if it is a fully developed system or a work around is good for me, if somethings works, it works

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Just remember the WGL inventory system and Terox`s system he made for Zeus did a similar thing. Both attempts had its limitations since they were not generic enough. And the influence on speed and stamina is not really supported by the OFP/ArmA engine I guess.

If you carry a load on your body/in your vehicle you should have always access to cargo/storages within a certain range via a menu to move assets from one to another or to drop into the environment.

I just ask for full support as possible in current engine and full support in next engine, the GUI and the logic can be done by the community.

[Dallas 9]

Vietcong2(god bless) had an inventory system based on weith among other factors. Classes would have different armour, stamina stats. Classes with body armour would have lesser stamina than a class without. Weapons and equipment also had an effect on stamina. Most classes would be able to carry two primary weapons. A rifle and a SMG. Carrying an MG would use up all of your stamina and you wouldn't be able to carry a second primary.

In Vc2 there were a big difference between regular running and sprinting and smart players sprinted from cover to cover, where they would be safe and recharge their stamina. This system promoted very realistic movement, which ofcause many disliked. You could increase your stamina, simply by dropping gear.

Totally rewriting BIS inventory system sound more like a usemade mod to me though.

[theedge_jinx 1]

I just wanna say I totally agree with the first post. Sounds good. You don't have to overdo it, but if it could be like first poster suggests that would make me happy enough.

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

I just wanna say I totally agree with the first post. Sounds good. You don't have to overdo it, but if it could be like first poster suggests that would make me happy enough.

Holy crap guys !

Lets take it a bit slowly here... the original idea of mine was pretty simple and easy to realize and very usefull indeed.

In combat it is no problem to have another gun strapped to your back, please dont overdo it otherwise this will again lead to some good idea that could not be realized because people "attached to much weight at it" = expected and wanted too much.

Now please advise me... what would have more effect ?

1. Create a poll to show BIS that people want it

2. Add it as a feature on that bugtracker site

[4 IN 1 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ April 25 2007,15:38)]

I just wanna say I totally agree with the first post. Sounds good. You don't have to overdo it, but if it could be like first poster suggests that would make me happy enough.

Holy crap guys !  

Lets take it a bit slowly here... the original idea of mine was pretty simple and easy to realize and very usefull indeed.

In combat it is no problem to have another gun strapped to your back, please dont overdo it otherwise this will again lead to some good idea that could not be realized because people "attached to much weight at it" = expected and wanted too much.

Now please advise me... what would have more effect ?

1. Create a poll to show BIS that people want it

2. Add it as a feature on that bugtracker site

poll first, but make sure ppl wont Bullcrap in it, many ppl dunno how to use BTS too

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

poll first, but make sure ppl wont Bullcrap in it, many ppl dunno how to use BTS too

would you do me the favour and create a poll and instruct people how to use it ? You got my point well and Im at the moment not able to invest more time here mate...

So this is your idea and your poll. cheers.

[4 IN 1 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ April 25 2007,16:01)]

poll first, but make sure ppl wont Bullcrap in it, many ppl dunno how to use BTS too

would you do me the favour and create a poll and instruct people how to use it ? You got my point well and Im at the moment not able to invest more time here mate...

So this is your idea and your poll. cheers.

would try to find a time and do so, just keep it simple and as a first step of changing would be good enought