Does squad AI actually work?

[concern 0]

I am currently struggling my way through the 'unsurrounding' mission. You start this mission with a couple of hummers and about 8 squad members. Why is it that your squad appears to be so unresponsive to your orders?

I find that often the second hummer just stays back and will not obey a return to formation order. When you are on the ground it is a constant struggle to get your squad mates to even vaguely do what you want. So much so that I find it easier to try to complete the mission as a lone soldier.

Can anyone comment on the squad AI? Are there significant issues with it at the moment?

Thanks

[Big Dawg KS 6]

You must be doing something wrong, but it's easy to mess up with such a complex command interface.

[4 IN 1 0]

if the squad AI is leaded by another AI leader then they wont have much problems, if you were the leader then you have to work out how to control your squad more effectively(AI leaders gives atless 200 orders/min in combat), it took me atless 3 years of OFPing to build up some skills, if BI improve the squad control more then it would be easier to live with

[Second 0]

@concern

Yeah. It ain't easy to command soldiers in ArmA or in OFP. It takes time to learn AI (how it behaves, what to expect and not to expect). Remeber to check that they are in right behaviour mode, for speed: aware. for staying alive: stealth.

After i got used to it, i wouldn't trade this current command-menu and structure to anything simplier... I feel that i'm not in command if there's only few commands like in forexample Ghost recon (original )... I end up playing rambo in those games, as i can't communicate sufficently with team or squad.

Just keep things simple and give AI some time. And might be wise to throw Spec op-tactics to trashcan.

EDIT: And it good idea to keep your men near you, because that way you can keep eye on them. Don't spread men around, because if they run into trouble they are most likely dead and you can't command them efficently because you can't see what they see.

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

Nah, it doesn't work well at all. Just like in OFP.

It seems that if you have to rely on AI AT soldiers to take out a tank/bmp, you are screwed a lot of the time. So many times, I tell them to attack a tank, they will wait a few seconds, take out the RPG, sit there for 2 seconds, put it away,take out their M4, lay down, crouch, take out the RPG, put it back, lay down, stand up, STAND UP and run a few feet, and by this time the tank has killed him, me, and all other members of my squad, even though we were pretty well hidden and all that was required was a couple easy RPG shots.

[Trapper 0]

You start this mission with a couple of hummers...

From my OFP experience, a group of wheeled vehicles is one of the worst starting points for an AI squad. The other is a group of aircrafts.

I've hated this mission you're talking about, too. It's on of these official bad quality missions. Just to show that now they've got TOW Hummers in ArmA they made a mission with out respecting the ArmA/OFP AI problems.

Wheeled vehicles are bad in keeping formations, whenever it comes to reverse and off-road movements.

Tracked vehicles wont wreck any wheels, run over trees and they are able to turn around in place to respond quickly. But wheeled vehicles movements take forever in such situations.

The best thing you can do is order all wheeled vehicles one by one without formation to tactical over watch positions, avoiding 180 degree turns and obstacles.

For that the mission maker should have removed the stressing time factor from the mission to make it any fun.

[Second 0]

Nah, it doesn't work well at all. Just like in OFP.

It seems that if you have to rely on AI AT soldiers to take out a tank/bmp, you are screwed a lot of the time. So many times, I tell them to attack a tank, they will wait a few seconds, take out the RPG, sit there for 2 seconds, put it away,take out their M4, lay down, crouch, take out the RPG, put it back, lay down, stand up, STAND UP and run a few feet, and by this time the tank has killed him, me, and all other members of my squad, even though we were pretty well hidden and all that was required was a couple easy RPG shots.

Are you ordering them to engage (or attack) and not just target? AI sucks in fullfilling 'engage'-order usually. So it's not good thing to use it, expacewly with AT-guys as they mess around with their launchers (which is related to threat-levels maybe?)

They have to have good positions so that they can open fire from where they are, without moving and expacely without engaging.

In OFP 'engage'-order was fulfilled with somewhat bizare ways: When standart rifle's allowed that it can be fired from 250 meters. under 'engage'-order men (armed with rifle) usually tried to get to distance less than 200... even when he was underfire! So they usually didn't last enough long to actually fire their weapons. I've tested it in desert island (which offers quite labratory conditions)... Results didn't encourage to use 'engage'-order at all.

Of course in rural-terrain they performed better because they could use cover, but still they usually ignored some very good positions like hill tops and forrests, and favored to run downhill or to open and so exposed themselves, even if their target was already inside weapons range. Something to do with gaining better success with their first shot?

PS. I haven't met that "messing with AT-laucher'-thing with 'target'-order (or when men are choosing their targets without orders). Or if they have then there has been good explanation: More dangerous thing has been spotted and they try to kill it with rifle.

[orson 0]

With Ofp i found an effective tactic for using AI was to give them a no-fire order to begin with untill we get into position ... then give individual targets to the AI based upon what they can see from the position .. so they dont move about ... when i get back the " ready to fire " from all members i give free fire order and 9-10 its a success .

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

Are you ordering them to engage (or attack) and not just target? AI sucks in fullfilling 'engage'-order usually. So it's not good thing to use it, expacewly with AT-guys as they mess around with their launchers (which is related to threat-levels maybe?)

de weapons range. Something to do with gaining better success with their first shot?

Yeah, I guess I usually use Engage. I Hit the corresponding F-key, and then just click on the tank, and that's the same as using Engage I think. So I should be using the "Target" command from the menu, scrolling through all the target lists, and the hitting the number of the target, hoping that I chose the correct target at "11 o clock" or "12 o clock" or whatever?

That seems sort of unwieldy.

Wouldnt it be better if you could select "Target" and then click on what you want them to target?

I dunno,I just wish the AI would be a lot more intelligent and FASTER. My AI just always seems stupid and slow. They do so many foolish things that get them killed. Something as simple as entering a vehicle after you've ordered them to still takes longer than you would hope.

Telling them to "take cover" doesnt seem effective, since they do so very slowly, and don't do a very good job of it anyway.

How hard should it be for them to find cover?

But I'm probably expecting far too much from them. I just cant wait until the day when you can play with 100+ or so human players online and not have to worry about having any AI in the game at all.

[Second 0]

Ain't right mouse button the one which orders them to target? And left orders them to engage?

You have point there:

There are lots of thing AI fulfills too slow or insufficently. fortunately i haven't played MP very much, so it doesn't sadden me that much. But if someone has experience in MP, he most likely feels that AI is too dump&slow and most of all uncreative.

With AI leader they can start finding cover pretty fast (another thing is that do they find cover, which can take long), that's because AI leader can issue takecover silently and without command-hassle:

2, take cover

3, take cover

4, take cover

5, take cover

6, take cover

7, take cover

8, take cover

To what player is forced.

[{Golani} Namir 0]

Hello,

I don't really think the AI is that stupid. Atleast in the American demo. (Haven't got the full game yet....not in stores till the 8th) For the most part...the follow me when ordered to fall in. Wheeled vehicles seem to have a slight problem with being in the right formation. They seem to always want to form a convoy like formation me me. Just one long column. But when we make contact they break column and form up where they are supposed to.

[dwringer 45]

haha, now that's a good insight, i think.

The main problem with arguments against the AI really can only boil down to, "man, it's a shame these AI aren't actual humans"

never mind the fact that our meager CPU's are trying to simulate hundreds of their little brains at a time

[4 IN 1 0]

haha, now that's a good insight, i think.

The main problem with arguments against the AI really can only boil down to, "man, it's a shame these AI aren't actual humans"

never mind the fact that our meager CPU's are trying to simulate hundreds of their little brains at a time

i always said that unless you plug a human brain into a computer, you wont get any "AI" to work and think like a real human

[max power 21]

haha, now that's a good insight, i think.

The main problem with arguments against the AI really can only boil down to, "man, it's a shame these AI aren't actual humans"

never mind the fact that our meager CPU's are trying to simulate hundreds of their little brains at a time

i always said that unless you plug a human brain into a computer, you wont get any "AI" to work and think like a real human

I'm not going to go into details... but that doesn't work. Trust me... many failures... at least not with the brains I've tried.

[NeMeSiS 11]

haha, now that's a good insight, i think.

The main problem with arguments against the AI really can only boil down to, "man, it's a shame these AI aren't actual humans"

never mind the fact that our meager CPU's are trying to simulate hundreds of their little brains at a time

i always said that unless you plug a human brain into a computer, you wont get any "AI" to work and think like a real human

I'm not going to go into details... but that doesn't work.  Trust me... many failures... at least not with the brains I've tried.

Looking at most games i played online it seems like the AI isnt that retarted at all, both AI's and most players make stupid and suicidal decisions on where to move/what to do, the only difference is that humans usually have better pathfinding and are better at taking cover..